Darron Gibson

Originally Posted by DeLorean

As I was typing my post I just knew there would be a statistician lurking with intent. Most stats mean very little to me and, to be honest, if these stats prove anything it's that none of the above are making enough tackles or interceptions.

Those are perfectly normal stats for central midfielders. A casual inspection of that site shows that Gibson is Everton's third most prolific tackler, Whelen is Stoke's second most prolific tackler, and McCarthy is fourth at Wigan on both counts. Of course, you know better.

Originally Posted by John83

Those are perfectly normal stats for central midfielders. A casual inspection of that site shows that Gibson is Everton's third most prolific tackler, Whelen is Stoke's second most prolific tackler, and McCarthy is fourth at Wigan on both counts. Of course, you know better.

Maybe they are, I wouldn't know because I don't inspect the statistics for each player too often. If I have watched a match I don't feel the need to, if I haven't I'd prefer to read a report on the game. As for your little dig at the end, I'm not sure what you're getting at? I already pointed out that I'm not a big believer in statistics, they are not totally worthless but they don't really give any clue as to the type of tackles or interceptions made. As for the stats you produced, if McCarthy makes more tackles than Whelan, but Whelan is Stoke's second highest tackler and McCarthy is only Wigan's fourth, does this just suggest that Wigan as a whole are forced into making a lot more tackles than Stoke? Their league positions would probably indicate that it does also. I'm not sure how this helps to guage a players attributes, more their teams circumstances as it's not like for like.

I thought I made it pretty clear that I didn't "know better" in relation to Gibson's Everton performances to date. As for the games I have seen him play, well yeah, I do think I know better than any statistics that will be produced, but it's only my opinion.

PS: In the bit you quoted above, I probably should have said 'indicate' instead of 'prove'. In fact, I definitely should have.

Gibson had a relatively quiet game against Chelsea but any other games I've seen him play for Everton, he's looked confident, assured and has oozed ability on occasion. The mid-season move has worked out well for him, probably he could not be in a better situation.

I think the good form shown by Gibson is obviously linked to regular football but I think the influence of a hands on manager like moyes can't be understated. He has a good record at getting the best out of players

Originally Posted by DeLorean

... As for your little dig at the end, I'm not sure what you're getting at? ...

PS: In the bit you quoted above, I probably should have said 'indicate' instead of 'prove'. In fact, I definitely should have.

That's what I was reacting to, yep. Well done spotting it - I have a lot of time for anyone who manages to figure out the source of a miscommunication instead of just arguing.

Originally Posted by John83

That's what I was reacting to, yep. Well done spotting it - I have a lot of time for anyone who manages to figure out the source of a miscommunication instead of just arguing.

I can only assume that's sarcasm, and patronising sarcasm at that...(is all sarcasm patronising??) Anyway, it's working as I do feel a bit stupid, but only because I'm not 100% sure if you are being sarcastic or not.

Originally Posted by DeLorean

I can only assume that's sarcasm, and patronising sarcasm at that...(is all sarcasm patronising??) Anyway, it's working as I do feel a bit stupid, but only because I'm not 100% sure if you are being sarcastic or not.

I'm pretty sure he was being serious. Hugs all around!

Originally Posted by DeLorean

I can only assume that's sarcasm, and patronising sarcasm at that...(is all sarcasm patronising??) Anyway, it's working as I do feel a bit stupid, but only because I'm not 100% sure if you are being sarcastic or not.

Dead serious.

Ah very good, you'd really miss the thanks button at times like this.

Gibson played great today dont think he gave a ball away and showed a wider range of passing than usual which I suppose is a reflection of confidence from getting run of games. I think in a year he will be seen as the best central midfielder we have had since roy keane with the added advantage of been a far better passer of the ball but unlikely to ever have keanes amazing ability to cover the ground

23 premier league games unbeaten. Good to see him getting some acknowledgement. If he stays free of injury, he should cement his place in the Irish team in the near future. This summer is probably coming too soon for him, he doesn't look as fit as he could be. I'd like to see him develop into a Xabi Alonso style player.

And Xabi Alonso gave a insightful interview recently about tackling, that may enlighten you DeLorean, that you don't have to be diving into tackles to play DM. The Czech game recently showed the folly of midfielders diving into tackles. Whelan and Andrews both dived in and ended up out of the game for the Baros goal.

I remember that Alonso interview - very interesting perspective. Although it is obvious that Alonso is not the most natural tackler in the world in spite of his GAA background.

Originally Posted by joe_denilson

And Xabi Alonso gave a insightful interview recently about tackling, that may enlighten you DeLorean, that you don't have to be diving into tackles to play DM

It was never my belief that you did.

Originally Posted by DeLorean

It baffles me to see people are saying that Gibson would do just as good a defensive job, he's slow moving and I've rarely seen him win a tackle (or even make one).

Originally Posted by DeLorean

It was never my belief that you did.

So, by deduction, to be defensive you have to be quick?

Originally Posted by joe_denilson

So, by deduction, to be defensive you have to be quick?

There are various types of defensive midfielders. Makelele used generally just hold his position, break up play and lay it off. Scott Parker would be an example of the more aggressive type, harrassing players and flying into blocks and tackles as you mention. Gibson never struck me as the type of player who would do either with any great success, so basically I was just comparing Andrews' attributes with Gibson's lack thereof. The recent reports from our fellow posters suggest I may have been wrong to rule Gibson out for this role, but as Johnny Giles always says..."we can only go on the evidence we have seen Bill".

Gibson is more like Carrick - holds his position well and is disciplined but can generally be relied upon to make the tackle when needed. He's not an anchor in the Makelele mould or a grafter/harrier like Parker but he does bring his own qualities. I'm actually surprised by how well he's done in Everton's 4-4-2 because he strikes me as the kind of quarterback type who excels in a 4-3-3/4-5-1. It gives me hope that he can do the job for Ireland too, although I still think you'd need a striker like Cahill who will give it all in midfield too.

http://www.football365.com/f365-feat...bers-And-Stats...

Midfielder Darron Gibson has lost only one of his last 32 club games for Manchester United and Everton.

That's an amazing statistic.

Moyes is delighted with him but says he needs to step out of his comfort zone a bit.

There are still flaws to Gibson’s game – Moyes hinted there is a comfort zone he needs to vacate – but there are early signs that you can already file him into the 'polished gem’ section of transfer coups.

“I have always liked Darron and thought there was something there,” said Moyes. “It is going to take time and there is more to come. He probably needs a wee bit of the treatment as well.

"He will need to get whipped a couple of times. I am sure he has had that with his previous manager as well. We will try to get him to be a bit braver in a lot of the things he does.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...ky-mascot.html

It seems that Trap was right about Gibson i.e. that he needed to be playing regularly.

The piece where Moyes says that Darron must step out of his comfort zone and maybe needs a wee bit of the treatment would be something that Trap would concur with.

I suppose Trap would regard that as more of a mentality issue than a personality issue.