Celtic Cup thread

[Not Brazil]

The most recent poll clearly offered most the chance to "save face" or "get it right the second time" and was well stage-managed as the seemingly trivial and fickle reasoning of a boycott over "paying an extra tenner and not getting a pint" came in for stark criticism from some even after the IFA reduced their travel price from £30 to £22: "I just dare someone to come on here and say that the £8 saving has swayed them and they're going again." On the other hand, taking a stand on the eligibility issue has been advanced as the principled stance.

It's patently obvious what sparked the boycott that actually took off.

It is, indeed, patently obvious.

Before the travel/ticketing arrangements were announced by the IFA, upwards of 6,000 fans intending to travel.

After the travel/ticketing arrangements were announced by the IFA, it all kicked off.

As mentioned previously, before the Scotland game, Northern Ireland fans' representatives advised the IFA of concerns surrounding the distribution of tickets - this advise was ignored.

The IFA pleading for supporters groups to work with them on this one, was never going to have legs, after the arrangements were announced.

An article in the Sunday Life confirmed the stance of the AONISC yesterday (not online yet).

Things are extremely frosty between the AONISC and the IFA at present.

It would appear that those propogating that the boycott was because of player "nicking" haven't managed to get their message across to the media yet.

[Mr_Parker]

I note that Patrick Nelson is quick to distance himself from the "agreement".

Perhaps it was a desperate act by a desperate man trying to cling on to power?

Surely not.........no it couldn't be....well we are, where we are.....

[ifk101]

So the long and the short of it is the IFA is going to take a severe financial hit? What about the FAI?

[Not Brazil]

Is that about 22 up on yesterday? What a disaster.

There must have been a couple of refunds.

120 tickets sold, as of this morning.

30 sold for our game v Wales.

[SwanVsDalton]

What an embarrassment this tournament is turning out to be. Bit of a shame really, I was looking forward to an NI vs ROI game with some competitive bite and I don't think the idea behind the Nations Cup is necessarily a bad one. But it's organisation has been badly handled and it seems clear some associations are far more keen on it than others.

[DannyInvincible]

It would appear that those propogating that the boycott was because of player "nicking" haven't managed to get their message across to the media yet.

They're still spinning I see, and, to my surprise, without even a hint of embarrassment or subtlety:

"The rest of us just need to spin this boycott to the issue of player poaching."

"Therefore, putting a spin on the boycott (as you suggest) and upping the ante, with regards to manifesting our disgust at the IFA's passive attitude towards FAI poaching, should now be at the forefront of Amalgamation activities."

What do these fans think their fabricated boycott can achieve? What exactly is it that they're expecting the IFA to do about the player eligibility issue? I get the impression half are ignorant to the rules they're apparently protesting against whilst confusion also reigns as to what change exactly they should be demanding; proposed solutions have been aired from - without, it would seem, any hint of self-awareness - FIFA limiting players to playing only for the body governing the territory in which the individual was born to having the FAI voluntarily sign up to an agreement on selection with the IFA because they ought to feel ashamed of their "pro-apartheid, sectarian selection policy".

More than anything, they're surely just hurting their own association in the pocket. Have they already forgotten about CAS? It's not as if the IFA haven't already embarked on a foolhardy and futile attempt to subvert FIFA's interpretation of their own rules and have them read in the IFA's favour. Not only did that end fruitless but it left the IFA also having to foot the cost of legal fees for Daniel Kearns, the FAI and FIFA.

The chances of FIFA amending their rules are extremely slim to nil for a number of reasons, including: the IFA are a small and relatively unimportant association in the grand scheme of things (as are the FAI, for what it's worth, but inaction inevitably favours the FAI); the trend, as supported and lobbied for by the Francophone north African bloc of associations, seems to be flowing in the direction opposite to that which the IFA would prefer; and, beyond the internal politics and practicalities, the moral question of whether it would be acceptable to deny an Irishman the right to represent his country as well as the surrounding furore such might evoke if FIFA were to limit this right is probably something the organisation would prefer to stay well clear of and leave be if at all possible. I'd find it hard to envisage the formulation of a persuasive argument in favour of limitation besides.

Apart from the fact that it would make the potential of some agreement between the two associations a practical impossibility, cutting off all ties with the FAI (whatever that might involve exactly; deleting John Delaney, Don Givens and Marco Tardelli from Facebook, et cetera?), as I've seen suggested, wouldn't evoke any sympathy for the IFA's cause either, but then, the likelihood of the FAI voluntarily agreeing to unilaterally disadvantage their position when they're doing nothing in breach of the rules is somewhat unlikely anyway. All avenues appear pretty much doomed with the IFA in a no-win situation no matter what they do. Considering this, it all just seems like an effort to stir as much of a fuss as possible, but nothing with any real hope, direction or persuasion; anything but acknowledge that the IFA can't really do a huge deal or that the idea of Irish nationals playing for Ireland might actually make perfect sense.

[ArdeeBhoy]

What an embarrassment this tournament is turning out to be. Bit of a shame really

No, it was a shame this pathetic competition was ever proposed. Nothing against the Scots and Welsh fans and players mind.
Just the Irish, from all over the island!

[Sullivinho]

What do these fans think their fabricated boycott can achieve? What exactly is it that they're expecting the IFA to do about the player eligibility issue?

I get the impression that from a Norn fan perspective (or at least among those who offer an opinion on the matter), FAI policy and the IFA's response to it are seen as the dominant factors in the player 'defection' issue. These players aren't autonomously and enthusiastically choosing to represent Ireland no, they're being 'poached'. Having their heads turned, lured away etc. And those sloppy guardians the IFA are just letting it happen. I've observed scant recognition of what I'd consider the true stimulus; the player's personal affinity and allegiance, or lack thereof. What effect is some boycott supposed to have on that? Taking their objections to their natural conclusions, is denial of identity and freedom of choice the objective and solution here?

It must be a difficult task to organise boycotts and whatnot with all those elephants in the room.

[BonnieShels]

No, it was a shame this pathetic competition was ever proposed. Nothing against the Scots and Welsh fans and players mind.
Just the Irish, from all over the island!

Yeah, the State of us and the statelet of them.

Has anyone ever talked about another factor about this tournament that all participants are pretty mediocre (and that's being kind)? I love the idea of it but the scheduling of it over to seperate chunks and holding it in only 1 city was daft not to mention the midweek environment. Still though, I'll be there next Tuesday.

[DannyInvincible]

Has anyone ever talked about another factor about this tournament that all participants are pretty mediocre (and that's being kind)? I love the idea of it but the scheduling of it over to seperate chunks and holding it in only 1 city was daft not to mention the midweek environment. Still though, I'll be there next Tuesday.

I imagine this is why the organisers would have liked to have had England on board at the beginning, and possibly why England had no subsequent interest in taking part. Whatever about the quality of the sides participating, however, the scheduling has indeed been pretty poor. Was a friendly game between NI-Wales or Scotland-Wales in Dublin ever going to draw a significant crowd?

[ifk101]

What do these fans think their fabricated boycott can achieve?

No doubting that there is a realisation among those in the NI support capable of forming an opinion independently that the boycott cannot achieve anything and hence the lack of consensus you highlight. Put it this way, wouldn't an independent observer highlight FIFA as the "culprit" here? - after all the FAI is abiding by the relevant FIFA statutes and the IFA has no problem whatsoever in organising a senior tournament with the FAI. Wouldn't an independent observer be puzzled as to why NI supporter group(s) are directing their anger at the FAI but at the same time aren't boycotting FIFA and its regulated competitions? Isn't this all just coming across at petty whinging?

At the end of the day if the relevant NI supporter group(s) genuinely wanted to highlight the eligibility issue wouldn't withdrawing from FIFA competition or a blanket supporter ban of FIFA regulated games make more of a statement? And why isn't this happening?

[Stuttgart88]

I think basic human rights are to blame. Boycott human rights in all their guises.

[SwanVsDalton]

No, it was a shame this pathetic competition was ever proposed. Nothing against the Scots and Welsh fans and players mind.
Just the Irish, from all over the island!

Why just the Irish fans? Can't say I ever had much of a problem with the competition - I like seeing ROI play no matter what, and thought the games would be more worthwhile than totally meaningless friendlies. Though I can certainly see why people would have a problem with a lot of aspects of it (organisation, timing etc).

[DannyInvincible]

No doubting that there is a realisation among those in the NI support capable of forming an opinion independently that the boycott cannot achieve anything and hence the lack of consensus you highlight. Put it this way, wouldn't an independent observer highlight FIFA as the "culprit" here? - after all the FAI is abiding by the relevant FIFA statutes and the IFA has no problem whatsoever in organising a senior tournament with the FAI. Wouldn't an independent observer be puzzled as to why NI supporter group(s) are directing their anger at the FAI but at the same time aren't boycotting FIFA and its regulated competitions? Isn't this all just coming across at petty whinging?

At the end of the day if the relevant NI supporter group(s) genuinely wanted to highlight the eligibility issue wouldn't withdrawing from FIFA competition or a blanket supporter ban of FIFA regulated games make more of a statement? And why isn't this happening?

In spite of much being made of it on OWC, I can't envisage the AoNISC actually coming out and directly linking the boycott with them taking an issue over player eligibility as I suspect they acknowledge it would appear foolish and misdirected, amongst other things that wouldn't exactly aid their image within the nationalist community.

Their spokesperson, Gary McAllister, almost certainly under pressure from certain fans to twist mention of it into an interview as no grievance with the FAI had been aired publicly prior to this or before the potential to exploit the story was spotted by spindoctors on OWC, paid lip service to the "many NI fans being unhappy with what [they] perceive as poaching by the FAI of [their] young players" the other day on UTV, but only insofar as it has he felt it contributed to making the fixture a high-risk game with feelings running high, seemingly in admission that "balanced" security measures would have been justified: http://www.u.tv/Sport/NI-fans-urged-...d-dbb7a7e64fa5

Whether he somewhat contradicted himself there or not in an effort to mention it in passing, I'm not sure, but it's interesting to note that he avoided saying the boycott was due to the eligibility issue.

[jbyrne]

thought the games would be more worthwhile than totally meaningless friendlies.

i agree with this. if ourselves and scotland are meeting sunday week for a winner takes all match it could be very enjoyable with a few thousand scots in the stadium also.

ok, there are some issues with timing, ticket prices etc but i for one was tired of an endless run of meaningless friendlies. maybe the upcoming NI and scot games might actually be watchable for once

[ifk101]

NAME CLUB

Jonathan Tuffey Inverness Caledonian Thistle
Alan Blayney Linfield
Lee Hodson Watford
Adam Thompson Watford
Gareth McAuley Ipswich Town
Ryan McGivern Manchester City
Colin Coates Crusaders
Craig Cathcart Blackpool
Niall McGinn Celtic
Sammy Clingan Coventry City
Oliver Norwood Manchester United
John Gorman Wolverhampton Wanderers
Josh Carson Ipswich Town
Steven Davis Rangers
Robert Garrett Linfield
Stuart Dallas Crusaders
Warren Feeney Oldham Athletic
Josh McQuoid Millwall
Liam Boyce Werder Bremen
Jordan Owens Crusaders

[DannyInvincible]

Scotland squad has also been announced by Craig Levein: http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish...28&newsID=7799

Craig Levein has named his squad for the remaining Carling Nations Cup matches. There are first call-ups for 19-year-old Celtic midfielder James Forrest, and defender Russell Martin of Norwich City, newly promoted to the English Premier League.

Squad in alphabetical order:

Charlie Adam (Blackpool)
Barry Bannan (Aston Villa)
Phil Bardsley (Sunderland)
Christophe Berra (Wolves)
Scott Brown (Celtic)
Gary Caldwell (Wigan Athletic)
Kris Commons (Celtic)
Stephen Crainey (Blackpool)
James Forrest (Celtic)
Matt Gilks (Blackpool)
Grant Hanley (Blackburn Rovers)
Craig Mackail-Smith (Peterborough)
Chris Maguire (Aberdeen)
Russell Martin (Norwich City)
James McArthur (Wigan Athletic)
Ross McCormack (Leeds United)
Allan McGregor (Rangers)
Kenny Miller (Bursaspor)
James Morrison (West Bromwich Albion)
Steven Naismith (Rangers)
Barry Robson (Middlesbrough)
Iain Turner (Everton)
Steven Whittaker (Rangers)
Danny Wilson (Liverpool)

[ifk101]

The NI squad looks extremely weak on paper. Would be disappointed if we don't win that game regardless of what team we field.

Scotland game should be more of a challenge.

[DannyInvincible]

NAME CLUB

Jonathan Tuffey Inverness Caledonian Thistle
Alan Blayney Linfield
Lee Hodson Watford
Adam Thompson Watford
Gareth McAuley Ipswich Town
Ryan McGivern Manchester City
Colin Coates Crusaders
Craig Cathcart Blackpool
Niall McGinn Celtic
Sammy Clingan Coventry City
Oliver Norwood Manchester United
John Gorman Wolverhampton Wanderers
Josh Carson Ipswich Town
Steven Davis Rangers
Robert Garrett Linfield
Stuart Dallas Crusaders
Warren Feeney Oldham Athletic
Josh McQuoid Millwall
Liam Boyce Werder Bremen
Jordan Owens Crusaders

No place for Paddy McCourt after scoring against Motherwell on Sunday yet a place for McGinn? Is that surprising? McCourt was in their squads for the Scotland, Serbia and Slovenia games. Maybe Celtic have held him back for the Scottish Cup final or something. Has McGinn fallen off the radar at Celtic of late?

Otherwise, it does look like quite a weak squad.

Also, I believe we're to wear our home jersey for the game against NI and the new black alternative kit for the Scotland game.

[Not Brazil]

No place for Paddy McCourt after scoring against Motherwell on Sunday yet a place for McGinn? Is that surprising?

Is Paddy McCourt getting married soon? I've heard that's the reason for his non inclusion.