Sporting Fingal Gone Belly Up

**dahamsta** · 20/12/2010, 2:14 PM

The Lep has made his point and withdrawn from the thread, and possibly the forum. Back on topic please, this thread is too messy to split so it's either that, or I'm binning the lot.

**total hoofball** · 20/12/2010, 2:20 PM

Originally Posted by passinginterest

Fingal have been aware of the likelyhood of Gannon dropping out for most of the last year, so we can take it that they have been planning to operate without his contribution

The signings of big name players like Colin Hawkins and Ollie Cahill as recently as July disprove that.

we could then take it that they have prepared a budget for 2011 based on income from other sources (Keelings being another major sponsor and presumably the major contributor). If we look at it that way then they haven't lost €750,000 from their budget

Keelings reduced their funding/sponsorship in early 09' when the recession bit them in the arse and since then their business has declined with the loss of a big Tesco contract and subsequent redundancies. I don't have concrete figures but I've been told the amount they were pumping into the Fingal last season is a fraction of the 250k that they initially invested in 2008.

There is not a chance in absolute hell Keelings or any other business in this economic climate will make up even a small dent of the 750k+ that will vanish for Fingal in 2011.

they have also announced the decision to cut entry prices very early, so we could chose to accept that they have budgeted for a possible cut of at least 1/3 in gate receipts. They've already released a number of highly paid players so there is likely to be a major cut in their wage bill.

Yep with the release of guys like Zayed and O'Neill to name a few the wage bill will be significantly cut, but the problem is that they are cutting from such a wildly inflated height that even what they are left with is still too much of a burden without further subsidising.

They still have 9 players under contract, all 52 week full-time contracts. Some of those players are on over a grand a week. Even if they don't sign one more paid player and have 10 amateurs making up the remainder of their squad I conservatively estimate their playing wage bill will still be 6k a week. That doesn't take into account the full-time contracts of the management, backroom staff and the office staff to add to that. They have a tiny fanbase, their attendances are inflated by free-tickets, even with all that some of their announced attendances at the end of last season appear to be fabricated. On top of the tiny fanbase is they have no home ground and no external sources of income. They will still have some small sponsors and UEFA money but I can't see them breaking even and becoming sustainable unless they start pulling in at least 2,000 punters at €10 a pop to every league game. If they couldn't attract people when they had the money to splash out on big name players, giving away free tickets and pricey marketing campaigns then there isn't chance that will happen when they have to live within their means like every other who LOI club who have the advantage of established fanbases and history behind them. The only hope of survival I can see for them is to negotiate redundancies with the 9 f/t players and staff, request to drop down to the First Division on a shoestring budget and get the council to construct that earmarked facility on a scaled down basis to meet the basic LOI requirements and try to implement the Wexford Youths model and build slowly from there.

**Mr A** · 20/12/2010, 2:36 PM

Don't see how dropping down a division would help them as that would decrease income even more, but the rest of that seems to be spot on.

**Schumi** · 20/12/2010, 2:41 PM

Originally Posted by total hoofball

they have no home ground

I don't think the council charge them any rent, so that's not an issue really. I don't think other clubs (bar Dundalk) get much income from their grounds on non-match nights.

The only hope of survival I can see for them is to negotiate redundancies with the 9 f/t players and staff, request to drop down to the First Division on a shoestring budget

Dropping to the First Division wouldn't help. They'll get bigger crowds in the premier, the travelling costs will be lower and you can have just as shoestring a budget in the premier. Granted the results could be bad but financially, the premier would be much better.

**Dodge** · 20/12/2010, 2:47 PM

Originally Posted by Schumi

I don't think the council charge them any rent, so that's not an issue really

Do the Council own the ground? I thought they rented it from Clonliffe (and I'll admit I wouldn't be at all confident tht I'm right...)

**pineapple stu** · 20/12/2010, 2:54 PM

Random google result -

Originally Posted by Irish Examiner, July 2006

Bohemians football club has been negotiating the sale or lease of Morton Stadium with the owners, Fingal County Council.

Not conclusive evidence, but it looks like it's council-owned alright.

**poster** · 20/12/2010, 3:43 PM

Originally Posted by legendz

It's great to see a new club join the league.

Probably the worst thing that could happen, if SF go.

**Lamper.sffc** · 20/12/2010, 3:50 PM

Originally Posted by total hoofball

The signings of big name players like Colin Hawkins and Ollie Cahill as recently as July disprove that.

Keelings reduced their funding/sponsorship in early 09' when the recession bit them in the arse and since then their business has declined with the loss of a big Tesco contract and subsequent redundancies. I don't have concrete figures but I've been told the amount they were pumping into the Fingal last season is a fraction of the 250k that they initially invested in 2008.

There is not a chance in absolute hell Keelings or any other business in this economic climate will make up even a small dent of the 750k+ that will vanish for Fingal in 2011.

Yep with the release of guys like Zayed and O'Neill to name a few the wage bill will be significantly cut, but the problem is that they are cutting from such a wildly inflated height that even what they are left with is still too much of a burden without further subsidising.

They still have 9 players under contract, all 52 week full-time contracts. Some of those players are on over a grand a week. Even if they don't sign one more paid player and have 10 amateurs making up the remainder of their squad I conservatively estimate their playing wage bill will still be 6k a week. That doesn't take into account the full-time contracts of the management, backroom staff and the office staff to add to that. They have a tiny fanbase, their attendances are inflated by free-tickets, even with all that some of their announced attendances at the end of last season appear to be fabricated. On top of the tiny fanbase is they have no home ground and no external sources of income. They will still have some small sponsors and UEFA money but I can't see them breaking even and becoming sustainable unless they start pulling in at least 2,000 punters at �10 a pop to every league game. If they couldn't attract people when they had the money to splash out on big name players, giving away free tickets and pricey marketing campaigns then there isn't chance that will happen when they have to live within their means like every other who LOI club who have the advantage of established fanbases and history behind them. The only hope of survival I can see for them is to negotiate redundancies with the 9 f/t players and staff, request to drop down to the First Division on a shoestring budget and get the council to construct that earmarked facility on a scaled down basis to meet the basic LOI requirements and try to implement the Wexford Youths model and build slowly from there.

As if I wasnt depressed enough already about our situation. Cheers Hoofball.

**Charlie Darwin** · 20/12/2010, 3:54 PM

Originally Posted by total hoofball

The signings of big name players like Colin Hawkins and Ollie Cahill as recently as July disprove that.

I'd say flying the team out 4 days early for the Maritimo game was the bigger extravagance.

**legendz** · 20/12/2010, 4:01 PM

It was too. There is no need to arrive too early to away games. Ireland made the same mistake once away to Israel. For the '05 CL final, both Liverpool and Milan only arrived on the Monday. Two days before is grand. There seems to be an idea arriving 3-4 days early is great preparation where it isn't really.

**Spudulika** · 20/12/2010, 4:10 PM

Originally Posted by SkStu

he's brought it upon himself. I have no sympathy for him or his poxy club at all.

Cheerio Lep.

When supporters of other clubs titter at the demise of Bohs, don't take it to heart eh? What goes around comes around. Would have expected better from a solid and sensible contributor as yourself - must be the great white north getting to you.

I hope SF get it together, the brand of football they play can only bring the league forward. What I don't understand is how our friend from Bray knows they were looking for foreign investment? Surely that should be struck off for wumming, or the journo who posted it flushed out.
Fingal are finished folks... heard they were looking for overseas investment due to gannon pulling the plug and nada.. Anyone else think this looks too much like wumming?

**Schumi** · 20/12/2010, 4:13 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Do the Council own the ground? I thought they rented it from Clonliffe (and I'll admit I wouldn't be at all confident tht I'm right...)

It says here that Clonliffe are long term tenants and the NSCDA run it but not who owns it. I think it's the Council but couldn't be certain.

**pineapple stu** · 20/12/2010, 4:15 PM

Originally Posted by Spudulika

What I don't understand is how our friend from Bray knows they were looking for foreign investment? Surely that should be struck off for wumming, or the journo who posted it flushed out.

Good spot; post deleted, PM sent. They are looking for investment per the media reports here - possibly overseas; no reason not to cast the net as far as possible - but there's nothing to say it's plug-pull time yet.

**Charlie Darwin** · 20/12/2010, 4:37 PM

Surely every club is looking for investment, overseas or otherwise?

**Spudulika** · 20/12/2010, 5:13 PM

Thanks Pineapple Stu, it just seemed a bit too obvious and a little bit disingenuous. Charlie, you're almost 100% right, Shamrock Rovers are not looking for investment - per se. Sponsorship - yes, members - yes, season tickets - yes, but investors no, even if Abramovich sailed into Dublin Bay with a suitcase of roubles he'd be knocked back. All other clubs would think seriously about it.

The point I was making was that it seemed just a little bit too certain to be one of the unwashed wumming or trolling, there are more than a few journos on here who get a sniff of a story, then post something seemingly harmless to fish for more information and then write stories about the results - "a football source says", "sources in football say", "rumours of" and so on. It's grand when it's someone else's misfortune and club, then it hits home and suddenly such devious behaviour causes more than a few problems. No matter where they get funding from it would to keep the club in business, even if it's at a reduced cost base. At least they're a club who pay by the rules, which is a more than welcome sign in the league.

**SkStu** · 20/12/2010, 5:33 PM

Originally Posted by Spudulika

When supporters of other clubs titter at the demise of Bohs, don't take it to heart eh? What goes around comes around. Would have expected better from a solid and sensible contributor as yourself - must be the great white north getting to you.

fair enough. A bit harsh on Fingal. But The Lep is one of those posters that brings out the arshole in me.

**Spudulika** · 20/12/2010, 6:04 PM

Originally Posted by SkStu

fair enough. A bit harsh on Fingal. But The Lep is one of those posters that brings out the arshole in me.

I am just recalling a speech from Team America about di@ks, arsholes and smth else - :-)

You know yourself that on the Bohs thread I wanted folks to stick to facts instead of just glorying in the misery of others, I had it from Drogs fans/friends way back when (only a couple of years ago in fact) and while it would have been easy to kick them when they were down, and go to town now, I just don't see the sense. Far better to see clubs for what they put on the field and put back in the community than anything else. Plus I always admired how they paid correctly (above the table) like Shamrock Rovers, Bohs and UCD. In a financial planning sense there makes more sense not to do so, and it always ties you in knows with the salary protocol etc, but at least it exudes some decency. I think Lep just should have taken a step back and let the trolls and morons post away, the moderators have been pretty tight most of the time and journos get found out. Here's hoping for a 2011 with all clubs in business.

**oriel** · 20/12/2010, 8:01 PM

Spudulika, I wont take it as you having a go, but to the Fingal fans and others reading, I was probably a little too harsh in my post, its not as if they are all trying to commit murder, they`re only supporting and standing up for their team. So in the spirit of the season of goodwill, I will withdraw any nasty elements I posted, as no club in the LOI is without any faults.

**SkStu** · 20/12/2010, 8:25 PM

Originally Posted by Spudulika

I am just recalling a speech from Team America about di@ks, arsholes and smth else - :-)

You know yourself that on the Bohs thread I wanted folks to stick to facts instead of just glorying in the misery of others, I had it from Drogs fans/friends way back when (only a couple of years ago in fact) and while it would have been easy to kick them when they were down, and go to town now, I just don't see the sense. Far better to see clubs for what they put on the field and put back in the community than anything else. Plus I always admired how they paid correctly (above the table) like Shamrock Rovers, Bohs and UCD. In a financial planning sense there makes more sense not to do so, and it always ties you in knows with the salary protocol etc, but at least it exudes some decency. I think Lep just should have taken a step back and let the trolls and morons post away, the moderators have been pretty tight most of the time and journos get found out. Here's hoping for a 2011 with all clubs in business.

jeeze, way to make me feel suitably sheepish...