Here come the good times - for those in power

[Macy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereport...rd_to_pun.html

Good balanced article from probably the best business journalist over the last 2 years IMO. Rock and a hard place.

Interesting article, although I would've thought it was only Anglo bondholders that would be taking some hit (not total default), rather than the total banking bondholders? To me, the NAMA section again highlights why we should've nationalised the systemically important banks before getting into taking assets off the books.

Last nights Prime Time shows that we should take anything Lenihan says with a pinch of salt - I'd be very surprised if the Markets don't take a similar view of whatever the Government produce on "final" Anglo recapitalisation.

[dahamsta]

Comical that Lenihan and that total douche Sutherland would think that calling the bondholders what they are would affect their holdings. These people are binary beings, they see dollar signs or they don't, period. That's why we are where we are.

[OneRedArmy]

Comical that Lenihan and that total douche Sutherland would think that calling the bondholders what they are would affect their holdings. These people are binary beings, they see dollat signs or they don't, period. That's why we are where we are.

By "these people", you mean arch capitalists and laissez faire "the market is always right types" across the globe?

I'd agree with that, if thats what you mean.

But in that case you'd logically question our decision to join the EU and more generally to reduce trade barriers and tarriffs in the post-Dev era and generally set ourselves up as one of the most open economy's in the world.

My point is that we can't like the good bits of capitalism and then dislike the bad bits.

[dahamsta]

Yes, that's what I meant. Sutherland and his ilk have zero understanding of people and society, and that remains an element of capitalism, no matter how distasteful it is to them. And yes, you can like the good bits and dislike the bads bits. I love making money, but I also love redistributing it, when I can.

Are you seriously suggesting that we have to choose between capitalism or socialism, that there's no middle ground? Because there isn't anything but the middle ground in Ireland. It's not a middle ground I like, but it's better than alternatives we've seen in the past, in locations I can't mention for fear of invoking a certain law.

[OneRedArmy]

Yes, that's what I meant. Sutherland and his ilk have zero understanding of people and society, and that remains an element of capitalism, no matter how distasteful it is to them. And yes, you can like the good bits and dislike the bads bits. I love making money, but I also love redistributing it, when I can.

Are you seriously suggesting that we have to choose between capitalism or socialism, that there's no middle ground? Because there isn't anything but the middle ground in Ireland. It's not a middle ground I like, but it's better than alternatives we've seen in the past, in locations I can't mention for fear of invoking a certain law.

No, not at all.

Capitalism, as it is currently constituted, is IMO, broken, and badly broken at that (in the same way that communism was proven by practice to be broken).

I find it hard to look beyond the Scandinavian countries as the best possible economic model that is in place at the minute, but there seems to be a fairly high and growing level of dissatisfaction there with the high tax-high service approach, and the high suicide levels, whilst not drawing a conclusion, can't be ignored.

There's a desperate need, again IMO, for some genuine global financial and economic leadership that is in the common-good and in particular a curb on pure vulture type-speculation. This needs to be balanced against the need to foster entrepreneurialism.

On a purely Irish level, I genuinely thought the Your Country Your Call thing was one of the few good things to come out in the last few years as we have become a hugely negative people.

For similar reasons I actually applaud the guy who drove the lorry into Leinster House, as at least he got up off his arse and did something.

[dahamsta]

Scandanavia is just another example of the cyclical nature of humanity when you get right down to it*. We can't settle. We lean to the left, get restless, move to the middle, then wander back over to the right again. If there's was some light at the end of the tunnel then I could live with it, but it's like a bloody perpetual motion machine, there doesn't seem to be any end to it.

The Your Country Your Call concept was excellent in theory. It was perfectly Oirish in practice. Jobs for the boys, as ever.


* AFAIN the suicide rate has as much to do with it's geographic position than anything else. The nasty and generally unjustified growth in immigrant hatred is far more worrying.