I'm delighted then that I got that off my chest, I thought it might have gone un-noticed.Originally Posted by brendy_éire
On the latter part they can't.
Monkey Knife Fights in the North are governed by the Royal Society for Primate Fencing and I think we're all aware of the issues they've with us since the MKFOI affiliated with the "Société Européenne du combat de couteau de singe" back in 2005.
Hard to believe that a link up with PG tips and one poorly thought out advertising campaign nearly brought the entire sport to it's knees.
Cork City: Making 'Dream Team' seem realistic since 2007.
It really is a disgrace though. A League at best, personally I'd have shipped up them back up north whether they liked it or not, after blatant cheating.
Lets redefine what it means to heal
Let he who is without sin and all that.
We're effectively getting the same sanction as Shels for what was a very similar offence.
It really is a disgrace though. A League at best, personally I'd have shipped up them back up north whether they liked it or not, after blatant cheating.
[You kind of walked into that one
]
Shels hit a cash-flow brick wall and couldn't pay their wages. Morality regarding wage inflation and unsustainability aside, they didn't do any more than that.We're effectively getting the same sanction as Shels for what was a very similar offence.
Derry lied about their wage bill (equivalent, at least in terms of intent to avoid licensing issues, to Shams forging their accounts - for which their punishment amounted to relegation), racked up a substantial debt (against effectively no assets), have legally ducked out of that debt (whether they chose to repay them or not), and couldn't pay their wages.
Not the same, ORA. Defend the punishment as fair if you like, but don't say it's the same.
You can't spell failure without FAI
If you really believe that you're a bigger fool that I thought.
[QUOTE=John83;1293696]It really is a disgrace though. A League at best, personally I'd have shipped up them back up north whether they liked it or not, after blatant cheating.
What you have to remember student boy probably before you were born Derry were keeping alot of clubs in business and keeping the towns and cities they were playing in on a sunday in business. Derry were caught and punished rightly but dont come on here and say we shouldnt be in the league. Wot you have to remember is that the LoI woz dying of death before Derry came into the league and only them kept clubs afloat.
Are you joking ?
When you have the time Id like to hear why the two cases are similar.
John Delaney!! GET OUT!!!
www.ssdg.ie
[QUOTE=Flexy;1293714]And the veil slips!!!!!!!
Feel free to enlighten me so that everyone else can think me a fool. I have no illusions about Shels being whiter than white, but what I wrote is all I can recall them having been punished for.
Before you go calling names, you might pause long enough to notice that I was simply repeating CSFShels' post to tease ORA. Teasing he rose to rather magnificently.What you have to remember student boy probably before you were born Derry were keeping alot of clubs in business and keeping the towns and cities they were playing in on a sunday in business. Derry were caught and punished rightly but dont come on here and say we shouldnt be in the league. Wot you have to remember is that the LoI woz dying of death before Derry came into the league and only them kept clubs afloat.
Then you might pause again, this time long enough to write something vaguely coherent.
Given how clearly I flagged it, I feel like I might take a page from ORA's book and call you "a bigger fool that I thought". However, that would be a little unfair: I'd no opinion on the matter previously.
You can't spell failure without FAI
I referred specifically to the first quote above. You have said that in your view Shels didn't do any more than not pay players. And I based my response on that.
As for what they were punished for, I honestly can't remember what was contained in the public release of the First Instance Committee findings and what wasn't. But I do remember three winding up orders during that season which followed a Revenue special investigation into a number of clubs, which amongst other things included issues such as off-book wage payments and the like.
The winding up orders were over cash flow, as I said. There's many a thread more to be said about it, but that's what it boils down to. Derry, as I said, ran up reckless debts against no asset. I consider that to be more serious.
Derry have been unambiguously shown to have deliberately cheated. I have a vague recollection of that investigation too, but in the absence of something further having come from it, a vaguely libellous implication of tax fraud doesn't carry much weight with me. Regardless, Derry were punished for this cheating. Shels were relegated over the wages issue.
Before another Derry fan hops on me, all of this is simply justifying an earlier post of mine which dismissed ORA's suggestion that Shels' crime and punishment were equivalent.
Last edited by John83; 15/12/2009 at 11:25 PM.
You can't spell failure without FAI
No they weren't. They were over a series of unpaid tax bills.
See my earlier comment that you took some offence to.
I think ORA's right, John. Shels' dodgy dealings were what sparked the whole LoI revenue audit thing. The amounts they forfeited on were on the final settlement on that.
I think you might be slightly overstating the effect that a single noon kick-off on a March Sunday had on the economy of Cork.
Cork City: Making 'Dream Team' seem realistic since 2007.
Sorry, just clarify: they defaulted on the last payment of debt they'd accumulated to the Revenue, or tax they were found out to owe after an investigation?
You can't spell failure without FAI
I don't know for sure obviously. There was an amount they were paying to Revenue on instalments; my best guess is that it would have been a mixture of the settlement and the outstanding month-to-month balance. However, Shels were explicitly selected for a Revenue Audit and did incur a settlement arising from that, which resulted in every league club being audited. I think - though stand to be corrected - that the settlement related to cash payments to players.
My recollection was that it was the Rovers examinership that sparked the revenue audits, and the main issue uncovered by those audits wasn't cash payments but wages being paid as expenses*.
*Obviously, Revenue never extended that out to sacred cow sports like the GAA, where this practice remains rife.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
If so, I stand corrected. I think Shels' audit was particularly problematic though.
Both Shels and Rovers cases led to heightened interest from Revenue in the LOI (for years they were aware of the cash-in-hand regimes but turned a blind eye). Where Shels was especially problematic was the large sums involved (alledgedly more paid in cash than in normal).
Interestingly I have it on very good authority that a former club CEO went to Revenue and reported "illegal payments" at two competitor clubs and requested they investigate the matter.
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