Norn Iron rubbish part 23452346526

[Gather round]

JG- the main reason it'll never happen is because basically 100% of our fans, by definition, and many of whom are not at all bigoted, don't want to give up their team. If you (plural) keep calling for this to happen, you are either unable to grasp this simple reality, or just stirring for the sake of it.

[IsMiseSean]

JG- the main reason it'll never happen is because basically 100% of our fans, by definition, and many of whom are not at all bigoted, don't want to give up their team. If you (plural) keep calling for this to happen, you are either unable to grasp this simple reality, or just stirring for the sake of it.

I suppose its the no surrender mentality you have up there.
From my point of view I'd love to see an All Ireland Team just like I'd like to see the Island united.
Many NI fans want a seperate country and a seperate team which I try to understand
History will never allow this to happen, the reason it works in Rugby is probably because its been that way from the beginning

If I look at it in the context of England fans/FA wanting to unite the British Isle's into one team... I'd never go for that

I can always hope though

[Gather round]

I suppose its the no surrender mentality you have up there

So just stirring then, as I thought.

From my point of view I'd love to see an All Ireland Team

You already have this, effectively. Your team last night included players from Northern Ireland, Scotland and England. You can choose from a much larger playing pool than those who have grown up in the country. Fair enough, but that doesn't seem to be sufficient; you want me NOT to have a team to support. You've clearly failed to understand this basic point.

History will never allow this to happen

This is just empty cliche, isn't it? It probably won't happen because the people most likely to be disadvantaged don't want it to happen!

[topia]

We can no longer compete with the giants of European football. There is no way with the size of the ROI we can be putting our hopes of competing in major tournaments down to playoffs with the likes of France. We dont have the players. When O'Shea went off injured yesterday my first reaction was "**** Me, are we really that bad". Being able to draw on the likes of Johnny Evans, George McCartney, Chris Baird.. etc. We just arent deep enough. Smaller European nations have caught up in their development of players over the past 15 years. There are no easy ties in International football anymore. If we want to have better chances to compete in World Cups and European Championships Id say this is really our only option. I look at our current squad and I would say that after our next campaign we are fooked. We have no Robbie Keanes, Duffs, Givens, or even players of Dunne's caliber coming through.

I imagine this will get some reaction and would be very complicated but I would be for it except I couldnt have that blue nose pr1ck Kyle Lafferty in the squad!!!

What do you think.

Wont happen, cant happen i watched one of the italian games in a pub in belfast, NI and the Republic were playing on the same night the games were on opposite wall and the two sets of fans were standing back to back, all was grand i thought except a lad i know who was in the NI half showed me videos on his mobile just the other day. The NI match finished 1st and he had videos of that side of the pub singing sectarian songs towards the other halfat the tops of their voices...luckily at the time it wasnt heard in the other half of the pub as the noise was so great there. i honestly didnt realise it had happened and didnt believe it until i saw the videos. I dont think that sounds like a set of fans who are ready to unite.

[-lamb-]

barring the obvious neighbourly rivalry, most NI fans don't have a problem with ROI or it's fans....the ones from the ROI that is.
i think many feel aggrieved with ROI fans from NI who choose not to support NI, and then, ironically, use the lessened representation from the catholic side of the country as a stick to beat the NI setup with. if it peeves them off so much then i'd tell them to go to the matches, support the team thats there for them and make it back into one that all people can happily get behind. just don't not go then say it's one sided.
my father went to NI matches for years with catholic friends in pre-troubles days and was greatly saddened to see a whole generation lost who should have been supporting players from their own neighbourhoods playing for NI.
i know there are still catholic fans going to NI games, despite views to the contrary.
its not the fans from the ROI that irk a lot of people so much, but the ROI fans who live in NI but have turned their back on what should be their team, the team who all the way through had a good representation from their own community. throw into the mix the relatively recent "poaching" of the already small pool of potential NI players and you can probably see why the NI fans' attitude is somewhat touchy.
if gerry and martin can acknowledge a NI in the UK and sit in local power then maybe its time more people from catholic areas came and supported their own local players in similar numbers their forefathers did in pre-troubles days. (and yes, i know that was never the case for a small number of areas of the country but it was the case for a lot more areas than it is now and that is disappointing...possibly more younger people who might have been super GAA fans in older times now opt for football as their main sport and maybe that shows...who knows exactly.)
the NI team is there for all the people of NI. it's a pity some shirk the team that's trying to represent all of the people for a team elsewhere purely on the view that "that's their team, not mine". it IS your team, IF you want it to be.
its a tangled mess of sport, opinions and politics when really it is essentially meant to be about cheering on the players from your own local area.
maybe that's a utopian view, but it's the way it should probably be.

[Acornvilla]

N.I is just too complicated for my brain at this time in the morning..

[antrimgreen]

They fear change, 1 Island = 1 Team and our prospects for qualification would be much greater.

[gustavo]

I think if we're merging with anyone it should be England , We''d be quids in then

[ifk101]

I'd be totally against any merger with the IFA. And, at the end of the day, FIFA/UEFA recent clarification on the eligibility rules means there's no reason to merge. What's theirs is ours, so to speak.

[dodgycanadian]

Then again we dont want to end up like Belgium, look what different factions within a nation has done to that team.

[Gather round]

Wont happen, cant happen i watched one of the italian games in a pub in belfast, NI and the Republic were playing on the same night the games were on opposite wall and the two sets of fans were standing back to back, all was grand i thought except [detail follows]...I dont think that sounds like a set of fans who are ready to unite

The two groups watching in the same pub sounds quite encouraging actually

barring the obvious neighbourly rivalry, most NI fans don't have a problem with ROI or it's fans....the ones from the ROI that is...i think many feel aggrieved with ROI fans from NI who choose not to support NI, and then, ironically, use the lessened representation from the catholic side of the country as a stick to beat the NI setup with

I've no real problem with fans in NI supporting other teams, the South, England or whoever. It's the snide (and often dishonest) running down of the NI team and its fans that irritates.

throw into the mix the relatively recent "poaching" of the already small pool of potential NI players and you can probably see why the NI fans' attitude is somewhat touchy

Even this issue can be resolved, if not amicably then at least with a working compromise. The FAI and IFA could agree not to pick players from each others' area, as applied in the past; or at least that any player appearing in a full, U-21 or u-19 international, qualifier or friendly, after their 18th birthday, should be tied. If there's a will, there's a way.

They fear change, 1 Island = 1 Team and our prospects for qualification would be much greater.

Stop stirring; change the record while you're at it; no they wouldn't. Do you think our existing points totals would be added together or something?

I'd be totally against any merger with the IFA. And, at the end of the day, FIFA/UEFA recent clarification on the eligibility rules means there's no reason to merge. What's theirs is ours, so to speak.

There was never any reason to merge.

Then again we dont want to end up like Belgium, look what different factions within a nation has done to that team.

They've been mediocre since 2002, but seemed to do OK before that- when I imagine the tensions within the team/ population as a whole were pretty similar to today.

[Not Brazil]

I simply explain that I support the team, that represents the nation, of which I am a citizen. Therefore my national team.
Thankfully, many accept that and regretfully, many don't.

I wholly accept (and respect) your Citizenship, and that you support the team that represents your Nation. I most certainly do not consider you a bigot.

You are right - unfortunately, some are unable to grasp that.

Conversely, some are unable to accept that many Northern Ireland fans want nothing to do with their team being gobbled up, either as part of a, singular, All Ireland team, or as part of a team representing the whole of the United Kingdom - and, indeed, are labeled bigots for having a pride and patriotism in where they are from.

As has been mentioned, the FAI effectively have the pick throughout the 32 Counties. Young players can make their choice.

Why, then, do you want to see an end to the Northern Ireland team - one which means a lot (just as much as the ROI to you guys) to many people in Northern Ireland?

Why do you want to give up your team?

Do you really want to give up all that identifies you - anthem, flag etc - just so as you could have Jonny Evans in central defence, and a couple of additional squad players?

You seen the comment about Lafferty earlier in the thread - I mean, how dare he be a passionate Northern Ireland fan, and "loyalist". Not much respect there for one's identity.

At this point in time, we've a squad of players very proud to wear our shirt - a "mixed" team, pulling together for one another. That makes me proud.

On the basis of what I watched against France, so have you - I was very impressed by the effort and determination of the ROI team. You should be proud too.

Get over the, singular, "All Ireland" team idea.

It's not happening.

Now, an All Ireland Premier League, is something that merits consideration at Club level - you'll find some support for that in Northern Ireland, providing the autonomy of the IFA at International level is ringfenced. Some are hostile to the idea because they see it as a threat to that autonomy. Remove the threat, and there's basis for worthy discussion.

[backstothewall]

I wholly accept (and respect) your Citizenship, and that you support the team that represents your Nation. I most certainly do not consider you a bigot.

You are right - unfortunately, some are unable to grasp that.

Things have improved, and continue to improve, but further improvement is still needed. I can't help but feel the unwillingness to move away from Windsor is a reflection of the knuckledraggers who don't want NI games to be welcoming to the nationalist community, but NI will get there with time.

If we take Nov 94 and Lennongate as the low points, things have come a long way, to the point where I am always pleased to see NI win, and flick over occassionally to see how they are doing. I will never do any more than that, as I am politically opposed to the existance of the state, but you can't say Northern Ireland without saying Ireland. If i am not being given any reason to feel hostile to them, I'll always be pleased to see a team of Irishmen do well. We all wear green

At this point in time, we've a squad of players very proud to wear our shirt - a "mixed" team, pulling together for one another. That makes me proud.

In the short and medium term, your 100% right.

Get over the, singular, "All Ireland" team idea.

It's not happening.

Now, an All Ireland Premier League, is something that merits consideration at Club level - you'll find some support for that in Northern Ireland, providing the autonomy of the IFA at International level is ringfenced. Some are hostile to the idea because they see it as a threat to that autonomy. Remove the threat, and there's basis for worthy discussion.

Again, I agree. All the points I made about having 1 stronger league, and how Serbia benefits from having such a strong domestic league to supplement their players playing aborad apply equally, whether there is 1, 2 or 10 national teams being fielded from Ireland.

And for me that is the big selling points. Linfield playing St. Pats on a Friday night live on TV3 and UTV simply isn't going to end partition. And as long as thats the case, the NI national team is quite secure in the absence of obvious popular support for change.

[Not Brazil]

Things have improved, and continue to improve, but further improvement is still needed. I can't help but feel the unwillingness to move away from Windsor is a reflection of the knuckledraggers who don't want NI games to be welcoming to the nationalist community, but NI will get there with time.

Nationalists frequent Windsor Park regularly - hell, half the Linfield team are "nationalists".

(Nationalist) supporters of many club sides regularly attend Windsor Park, and, indeed, contrary to myth, some "Nationalists" come to support Northern Ireland.

The decision to remain at Windsor Park has nothing to do with "knuckledraggers".

You see, you gave away the real reason why many "Nationalists" will never support Northern Ireland - they are, by definition, "politically opposed to the existance of the state". I appreciate that is difficult to support something that represents something you are oppossed.

I really don't get the "if they didn't play at Windsor, I might support them" mentality.

Be honest - the truth is many "Nationalists" simply don't support Northern Ireland for political reasons.

[lopez]

...it is essentially meant to be about cheering on the players from your own local area.
maybe that's a utopian view, but it's the way it should probably be.

On the other hand, why not let people choose who the hell they want to follow in the first place?

So just stirring then, as I thought.

What's stirring? It's a legitimate quest to want Ireland unified both politically and with one team. That was what it was before 1922. Anyway, as EG said, this has all been done to death before, and as you rightly say, anyone from Northern Ireland can play for us.

Now, an All Ireland Premier League, is something that merits consideration at Club level - you'll find some support for that in Northern Ireland, providing the autonomy of the IFA at International level is ringfenced. Some are hostile to the idea because they see it as a threat to that autonomy. Remove the threat, and there's basis for worthy discussion.

I think this should be sorted. The fact that the Setanta Cup has had very little trouble at games - certainly nothing that makes the news in Britain as both Dundalk v Linfield 1979 and Linfield v Donegal Celtic a decade later says we've come a long way. Perhaps crowds are small because it's not the place to go to vent one's bigoted spleen.

[Not Brazil]

I think this should be sorted. The fact that the Setanta Cup has had very little trouble at games - Perhaps crowds are small because it's not the place to go to vent one's bigoted spleen.

That's the big question mark I have about an All Ireland Premier League - the Setanta Cup has demonstrated that North v South clubs is not a great crowd puller.

In fact, generally, attendances are appalling.

[Gather round]

What's stirring? It's a legitimate quest to want Ireland unified both politically and with one team

Anyone who wants the NI team to be merged with the South's (ie, abolished) is stirring. It's perfectly simple.

PS loved that story about your junkie pal in the Stade de France toilets. Hope you didn't take Lopez junior into that den of iniquity

[ifk101]

That's the big question mark I have about an All Ireland Premier League - the Setanta Cup has demonstrated that North v South clubs is not a great crowd puller.

In fact, generally, attendances are appalling.

Club football doesn't draw a crowd either side of the border but fact is Irish League attendances are on a par with the League Of Ireland First Division. Indeed I go as far as to say, League Of Ireland First Division is on a par standard wise with the Irish League Premier Division. Ultimately the Setanta Cup is a failure because, bar Glentoran and Linfield, the Irish League teams have not been able to compete with their League of Ireland counterparts. This has allowed the League of Ireland teams to field weakened sides and still win their games against Irish League opposition. The competition is doomed to failure as League of Ireland football is a better product than what the Setanta Cup can offer.

[Not Brazil]

Club football doesn't draw a crowd either side of the border but fact is Irish League attendances are on a par with the League Of Ireland First Division. Indeed I go as far as to say, League Of Ireland First Division is on a par standard wise with the Irish League Premier Division. Ultimately the Setanta Cup is a failure because, bar Glentoran and Linfield, the Irish League teams have not been able to compete with their League of Ireland counterparts. This has allowed the League of Ireland teams to field weakened sides and still win their games against Irish League opposition. The competition is doomed to failure as League of Ireland football is a better product than what the Setanta Cup can offer.

Mostly fair comment - although IL teams play with weakened sides too in the Setanta. The competition is dying a death, unfortunately.

Not sure how the evidence of the Setanta Cup points towards a bright future, if only we had an All Ireland league?

[bennocelt]

Im sorry but that was our first away win against a team of that stature in recent history. Listen the campaigns speak for themselves. We have been at 1 major tournament in 15 years

Just curious - stats wise does this count as a win or a draw?