Switzerland are one of the top European nations at underage level. They won the U17 World Cup the other day. Whilst yes we shouldn't be losing 6-1 to any nation at any level, the results of all of our underage teams are consistently better than those of the U21s.Originally Posted by Predator
Last edited by ifk101; 17/11/2009 at 2:23 PM.
[COLOR=#005600]Ireland 1 - 6 Switzerland[/COLOR]
Think it's harsh to single out that result - especially as that team went on to beat Sweden three days later.
Also, the U17s and U19s have both qualified from their UEFA groups this season (both did so after 2 of 3 games). McCaffrey qualified the 17s for the 2008 EURO finals last year too (first time for 8 yrs).
It is unfair to bracket these teams with Givens.
Today's result is just the latest lowpoint on a steep decline for him. He's on course to finish bottom for the third campaign in a row.
Of more importance than results is his man-management. When was the last time (if ever) a player has cited Givens as having a positive influence on his career despite him being in his 10th year of the job?
In contrast, Kerr and Vinny Butler were looked up to by players in the underage set-up.
Immediate action required. George Burley got the bullet for less.
For some reason people think that by pointing out some of the inconsistencies of the under 19 and under 17 teams, I'm excusing Givens' performance as manager of the under 21s, which isn't my intent. Sure, McCaffrey's sides might not be doing as bad as Givens', but that doesn't exactly mean they're doing well either. I was simply stating that we're not exactly doing the best at all levels, which is true enough.
The under 19 team that lost 6-1 to Switzerland, also lost to Belgium in that group, the win against Sweden meant nothing and we didn't qualify. They won against Malta and Liechtenstein in the qualifying for that group, losing to France.
This year, they've beaten Albania and San Marino in the qualifying. I think we can agree that the teams the under-19 team has beaten in the past two years have been teams we expect to beat. We'll see how they do against the Italians tomorrow. I wish them the best of luck
Last edited by Predator; 17/11/2009 at 3:43 PM.
Embarrassing stuff. I'm fairly Don Givens could be convicted of mass murder and still keep his job.
In fairness there have been numerous occasions over the last decade where an Irish youth team has gotten results that made me stop and look a second time.
What Brian Kerr and his underage players achieved in that 3/4 yr period was incredible, and probably won't be repeated, so taking that as an aside and concentrating on the breakup of old Europe, my perception of physical differences between ourselves and other European countries (what a generalisation!), some of the performances over the years have been exceptional.
There was one campaign about 5 yrs ago, the U19's knocked out Denmark and Italy from the Elite stage one and then got past Greece and Sweden in the one tournament.
The upshot is that this man is a clown. His sole responsibility is to provide players for the senior side (in his opinion). How about a left back Don?
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
I refuse to believe that the reason we lose 4-1 to feckin Armenia is because we dont have players of enough quality. I dont give a sh1te if Givens comes and said we hit the crossbar 10 times and their 4 goals were all down to 4 enormous slices of bad luck. The man is damaging irish football. He is constantly falling out with players and seems to have the mindset that footballers should all still act like the did back in the 1960s.
Im not fully of the belief that we need to be hugely successful at under21 level because I would be happy for only 1 or 2 players of every group to come through to become full internationals.But his record at this stage is beyond belief.
Somebody in this thread said something that I have believed for years.The under21 manager should have ambitions to move into the senior job as far as Im concerned and in having that hunger he will want to motivate his players to be as hungry to move into the senior squad too.
I dont know if he even has the qualifications or if he would even want it but I would love to see Kenny Cunningham take over.Always thought he was a great talker and organiser on the pitch and as an ex Ireland captain he would have the respect the players.Plus he is young so wouldnt be so out of touch with the young players like the clown in the job at the moment.
Its really not that complicated!!!
Givens has to go now!
LESS OF THE BULL NOW!
So we are in a group trailing behind the powerhouses of Georgia, Armenia and Estonia. That is beyond humiliating. Why have we been degrading our under 21s for years now by having a man in charge who is more clueless than Steve Staunton ever was. Why can't we get a good young and up and coming manager in the position with the posibility being that if he does a good job he could possibly get the full international job in time
Lads how embarrassing is that result? Unfortunately it will fall below the radar and not get any press because of the game tomorrow night but what an awful result. 4 points from 6 games is an appalling return for a country that would like to consider itself in the second or third tier of european football.
All I can think is that Givens must have a tape of the whole FAI board f*cking a herd of goats.
JERRY: But are you still master of your domain?
GEORGE: I am king of the county. You?
JERRY: Lord of the manor.
I think the FAI have to seriously look at Don Givens position its really not good enoughanymore.The U21 set up should be a platform for players to get into the senior squad maybe Liam Brady should take over he done a good job when he was at Arsenal what ya's think ????
And he could really test him to see could he do the senior job!!
Brady would seem the obvious candidate but would he give up his role at Arsenal, I seriously doubt it. Could he work part-time while being part-time involved with the seniors and full-time at Arsenal.. I doubt that too.
This could be a role for a former player who has taken coaching badges and can be groomed for potential future management of the senior team.
This is Ireland people. Dont y'all know that failure is rewarded?!
I
"It was by far the worst performance I can remember given the ranking of the opposition.
"I’ll look at the DVD and see where it went wrong but it would do the players good to look at it too because it was a horror show for a lot of them. It’s a team game but they have to look at themselves now."
---
Predictable Don - deflect the blame to the players.
The FAI should show leadership now but don't hold your breath.
The FAI must be saving a fortune on win bonuses!!!
Ridiculous at this stage that he still has a job after going 2 years without a competetive win. There are 4 games left in the qualifiers and his next 2 games are 2 home games against Estonia and Armenia so he is not going to step down as we really should win both those games, however, if we don't finish at least 3rd in this group, he has to be sacked!!!
Time for Givens to be chopped ... no doubt about it ...what is he bringing to the show
Don Givens is an absolute disaster for the Irish U21 set-up & always has been. He has done absolutely nothing with the group of players he has now or any of the teamshe had in the past. Has he achieved any significant results in recent times? I cant think of any. He still wants players to act like they are in the 60's/70's & i think this is the reason he falls out with so many of them. Football has moved on but it seems Givens is stuck in the old days.
There are decent players in this U21 squad. Most of them are with clubs in the Championship & even the PL but it is very very clear that they are being mismanaged big time & Givens has to take ultimate responsibility & stop trying to pass the buck.
I agree with the post above that the F.A.I should be looking to put a recent ex-player in charge (Kenny Cunningham for example) similiar to waht the FA have done with Stuart Pearce. Someone with a little bit of drive & ambition that the players can try & match & not someone who is just happy to be in a job.
where are the journalists op ed pieces on given and the u21s? Have they no opinion? Cotowing to the fai? No interest from readers? Its usually media pressure that helps get managers the push. Or the fans. But apathy on all sides and his cosy relationship with the board will ensure his future. Really is beyond belief at this stage.
No, no they dont have any opinions, they can shovel any auld crap up and they know it wont be contested. And cosy is the operative word, they couldn't give a toss. No one will step above the parapet. Pathetic at this stage .... how long is he there? 10 years or so?
The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.
Dunphy had a go at Don Givens tonight, suggesting that he needs to go. He complained about the series of bust ups he's had with players as well as the abysmal results and he's dead right.
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