Rugby now more popular than football AND GAA?!

**endabob1** · 17/11/2009, 6:00 AM

I love when someone who has clearly grown up in time of economic prosperity feels compelled to judge those who may not have been so fortunate. Ireland has a history of emigration dating back to the famine and before, I like many other people who grew up in the 80’s had to leave to make a future, many of my friends went back some have stayed some have left again. I have moved all around the world, London, Oz, and now South Africa, I feel lucky and privileged to have been able to do this but to me Ireland is still my home, even if I never live there again.
So how f—king dare you judge whether I am Irish or not, I was born and bred in Ireland, I speak the language, I will never be anything other than Irish, I carry an Irish passport, as will my children.
I hope for your sake the recession does bite so hard that you are forced like I was to leave your friends and family to try and build a future elsewhere.

**Doire Abu** · 17/11/2009, 7:08 AM

Originally Posted by Murfinator

Well that's something that I've never understood. You've chosen to live in Australia, that is your country of choice, you might have a romantic view of yourself being 100% Irish or whatever you like but you're not part of the community here, you don't live the day to day life or communicate with the people here all the time every day. I speak form experience knowing many Americans with distant Irish relatives who claim to be heavily Irish despite never actually being in the country. For some people being "Irish" is some abstract romance thing in their head that makes them special as its something unique to them compared to the people around them. To me, being Irish is choosing Ireland as your home, Australia is your home and it was your decision to make it that, just like it's my decision to choose Ireland as mine.

You should get out more.

**colster** · 17/11/2009, 9:07 AM

Originally Posted by Reality Bites

As per my original point - Because you never have full possession of the ball in soccer ( unlike in rugby) beating a player is a far superior skill I see nothing in your response that refutes this apart from a silly comment about a tackle.

I disagree. In soccer the defending player has to target the ball in the tackle. In rugby the defending player targets the player with the ball.

**dahamsta** · 17/11/2009, 9:38 AM

I'll be closing this if it continues off-topic. If you want to have a chat with someone about your origins, use the PM system. If you want to throw smart comments about, just save everybody the bother and log out.

**Stuttgart88** · 17/11/2009, 9:46 AM

There are skills in both games & it's dumb to suggest rugby is all brute force and ignorance.

In my opinion there are few things in sport that match the beauty of Rob Kearney fielding a high ball in rugby. The guy is truly world class. So too is BO'D. However, the question posed in my mind is would BO'D be world class if rugby was the truly global game and countries with populations of 50-200 million played the game, or would he just be another really good player?

What about all the great running backs in NFL - would they be great rugby players if that was the game they were brought up in and played professionally? Would Robbie Keane be world-class if football was only played in Commonwealth / ex-Commonwealth countries?

Rugby also deserves great credit for its governance, especially when compared with other niche-like "international" sports like cricket, where governance is a shambles.

**CarrickFan** · 17/11/2009, 1:32 PM

Viewing figures for Ireland v France were 858,000 from start to finish with a peak of 1.1 million towards the end...anyone know the figures for the rugby on Sunday by any chance?

**Scram** · 17/11/2009, 1:39 PM

The Irish middle/upper class controlled media have a whole lot to do with this.

But also:

Munster and Leinster have won the equivalent of soccer's Champions League and Ireland have won what is basically the equivalent of the European Championship. You can see where the support is being generated from.

**mypost** · 17/11/2009, 1:49 PM

Originally Posted by Scram

Munster and Leinster have won the equivalent of soccer's Champions League and Ireland have won what is basically the equivalent of the European Championship. You can see where the support is being generated from.

The European Championship in rugby is 6 teams. The Euros in football is 53. I think our football team would win the Euros with only 6 in it.

Munster and Leinster won a 6-country tournament. The CL is open to everyone. There is no comparison in either.

**Schumi** · 17/11/2009, 2:04 PM

Originally Posted by mypost

The European Championship in rugby is 6 teams. The Euros in football is 53. I think our football team would win the Euros with only 6 in it.

Even if the six included England, France and Italy?

**colster** · 17/11/2009, 2:16 PM

Originally Posted by mypost

The European Championship in rugby is 6 teams. The Euros in football is 53. I think our football team would win the Euros with only 6 in it.

Munster and Leinster won a 6-country tournament. The CL is open to everyone. There is no comparison in either.

Really. Our Team would win in a 6 team tournament with England, France, Italy, Scotland and Wales in it? I like your optimism.

**colster** · 17/11/2009, 2:26 PM

Originally Posted by Scram

The Irish middle/upper class controlled media have a whole lot to do with this.

But also:

Munster and Leinster have won the equivalent of soccer's Champions League and Ireland have won what is basically the equivalent of the European Championship. You can see where the support is being generated from.

What are you trying to say? Rugby has always been a popular sport in this country. Landsdowne Road is a rugby stadium and has always been full for 5 & 6 nations for as long as I remember, (which stretches back to the early 80s) and remember the capacity at Landsdowne for a Rugby match 50,000 and more.
Croke Park has been full AFAIK for every 6 nation game played there.

**SilkCut** · 17/11/2009, 2:34 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

There are skills in both games & it's dumb to suggest rugby is all brute force and ignorance.

In my opinion there are few things in sport that match the beauty of Rob Kearney fielding a high ball in rugby. The guy is truly world class. So too is BO'D. However, the question posed in my mind is would BO'D be world class if rugby was the truly global game and countries with populations of 50-200 million played the game, or would he just be another really good player?

What about all the great running backs in NFL - would they be great rugby players if that was the game they were brought up in and played professionally? Would Robbie Keane be world-class if football was only played in Commonwealth / ex-Commonwealth countries?

Rugby also deserves great credit for its governance, especially when compared with other niche-like "international" sports like cricket, where governance is a shambles.

Yes he would. Quite simply the man is a genius. The question should be would he be world class if Irish rugby had continued down the path it was on before it turned pro? No he wouldn't. Will Ireland continue to produce world class rugby players? Yes. Why? Because Rugby is set up to succeed regardless of what other countries are doing. Football unfortunately is set up to fail. Football in Ireland must be restructured drastically or Rugby will kick its arse.

**SilkCut** · 17/11/2009, 2:43 PM

Originally Posted by endabob1

The Provincial structure is not unique, it's modelled entirely on the All-Black set-up, local clubs, provinces, national team at the top of the pyramid with first dibs on the players availability. Everything revolves around the national team first and foremost, the provinces come secondary to that.
Warren Gatland was in charge of Ireland in the early days of professionalism and was very influential in the structure.

I didnt say it was unique. Gatland took charge in 98, 3 years after the formal restructure he had nothing to do with it. Either way it is a great system especially in NZ where they still get big crowds for club rugby as well as the super 14 games.

**colster** · 17/11/2009, 2:48 PM

Originally Posted by SilkCut

I didnt say it was unique. Gatland took charge in 98, 3 years after the formal restructure he had nothing to do with it. Either way it is a great system especially in NZ where they still get big crowds for club rugby as well as the super 14 games.

It was Brian Ashton former Ireland and England manager that recommended that the professional structure be around the Provinces feeding into the National Team.

**youngirish** · 17/11/2009, 4:01 PM

Originally Posted by colster

Really. Our Team would win in a 6 team tournament with England, France, Italy, Scotland and Wales in it? I like your optimism.

We've only won it once in 20 years and I'd safely state that if there was an equivalent football tournament we'd probably even have won it more than that in the past 2 decades.

You also ignore the fact that rugby union is nowhere near as popular in Scotland or England as football. We could probably beat both in tiddlywinks also.

**colster** · 17/11/2009, 5:16 PM

Originally Posted by youngirish

We've only won it once in 20 years and I'd safely state that if there was an equivalent football tournament we'd probably even have won it more than that in the past 2 decades.

Are you serious? How many qualifying groups have we won in that time?

Originally Posted by youngirish

You also ignore the fact that rugby union is nowhere near as popular in Scotland or England as football. We could probably beat both in tiddlywinks also.

It's not as popular as soccer but what is? It's still played by significant number of people. In England it's popular enough to support a fully professional league, an 82000 seater stadium for the national team and significant media coverage for all the major competitions or matches. In Scotland, admittedly the numbers are falling but you a similar thing is happening there in football.
The fact that Ireland were able to produce a Grandslam winning team against nations like France, England and Wales who have more players and more professional clubs is I think a great achievement, If you add to that the fact that they have been 2 on numerous occasions over the last decade then it is even more so.

**Scram** · 17/11/2009, 5:24 PM

Originally Posted by colster

What are you trying to say? Rugby has always been a popular sport in this country. Landsdowne Road is a rugby stadium and has always been full for 5 & 6 nations for as long as I remember, (which stretches back to the early 80s) and remember the capacity at Landsdowne for a Rugby match 50,000 and more.
Croke Park has been full AFAIK for every 6 nation game played there.

How about you read the thread title and read my post, and if you can't figure out what I am "trying to say" maybe you need to read it a few times more, but I didn't think it was written in code. Unreal

**SUB of the day** · 17/11/2009, 5:34 PM

Originally Posted by colster

Really. Our Team would win in a 6 team tournament with England, France, Italy, Scotland and Wales in it? I like your optimism.

Its an annual tournament, I'm sure we could win it once every 50 years or so.......just like rugby!

**Mento** · 17/11/2009, 5:37 PM

If there was a soccer tournament with just Ireland, England, Scotland, Wales, Italy EVERY YEAR, then I am fairly confident Ireland would of won it at some stage in the last 40-50 years

**colster** · 17/11/2009, 5:44 PM

Originally Posted by Scram

How about you read the thread title and read my post, and if you can't figure out what I am "trying to say" maybe you need to read it a few times more, but I didn't think it was written in code. Unreal

I take your point. I think this thread title is meant to be tongue in cheek.
A lot of people have taken the bait and got all precious about it, some making sweeping generalisations about the people who support rugby.