If the home block booking is a closed shop which it is, why should those who can't get tickets but want them fall behind in the points system? As I said already block bookers take tickets and shift the out of fear of losing the allocation. It's a case of the rich getting richer whilst the poor remain poor.Originally Posted by Junior
On the other hand away tickets are available for the majority of games so are a better indication of loyalty.
Keep the the home and away systems separate.
You need to get rid of this notion that all BB'ers are luck b'stards who get loads of tickets and just go to the best games and offload the crappy fixtures. Thats simply not the case, it happens sure but I would say its no where near as rife as you make out. If I attend 5/6 homes games and 1 away in a campaign, I dont think that should put me bottom of the pile (obv excluding those who havent travelled at all).
I think we will need to agree to differ or risk going round in circles.
At the end of the day, none of this would make me decide to travel/not travel anyway. I make that decision first and look how Ill source my tickets next.
I thought you were off the drink Ronnie?
"No, I drink to help me mind my own business....can I get you one? (c) Ronnie Drew
I don't have that notion at all. I can only speak from my own experiences One individual has eight tickets in a block booking, three go to every game, the other five are made of whoever wants to go in the days before the games. Sometimes there is a ticket left over with the cost being absorbed by those who go. It's not sold on outside the group - can't control what happens to it.
Same here, where there is a will there is a way, but that shouldn't have to be the case for regulars.At the end of the day, none of this would make me decide to travel/not travel anyway. I make that decision first and look how Ill source my tickets next.
[QUOTE=Bluetonic;1264666]I don't have that notion at all. I can only speak from my own experiences One individual has eight tickets in a block booking, three go to every game, the other five are made of whoever wants to go in the days before the games. Sometimes there is a ticket left over with the cost being absorbed by those who go. It's not sold on outside the group - can't control what happens to it.
QUOTE]
No matter what system you have in place you will always have exceptions which I firmly believe are in the minority. The vast majority of BB'rs are loyal long standing fans.
Nobody's denying that but it's irrelevant to this discussion. Still not one blockbooker has been able to say why they should control large allocations of tickets rather than the FAI.
The only reason is that its easier for the FAI that way.
In Trap we trust
I'm on the waiting list and don't see any problem with the way the block book works. The people who have been going for 20 years deserve to be getting tickets ahead of me as far as I'm concerned.
Anyways I don't see what difference it makes whether one person controls 4 tickets for example or is asked to supply 4 names for the 4 tickets. The 4 tickets are going to be sent out too the same guys who go to every game and they'll all meet up as they always do.
If as is being claimed the block book scheme has loads of touts on it - which I don't believe for an instance - surely whoever controls them is just going to get 3 other names together.
Someone using the GAA as an example of an organization who knows how to look after ticketing is a complete joke. I see way more touts on the way into an All Ireland then they would do for a soccer or rugby match. 82,000 capacity stadium and the county board of a senior team in the final get something like 12,000 tickets for the final
I'm blue in the face saying this but you issue fan cards and get rid of the outdated system of issuing a physical ticket for each game. It greatly reduces transfer of tickets between big groups, touting (to the small degree that exists), etc..,
The comparison is that the GAA are embracing the technology that is available. Last season they trialled the fan card, next season it will be increased. The FAI aren't bothered being innovative, very simple example is in November 2007 they carried out a block booker and waiting list fan survey and got email addresses of the same, yet even though the majority of people pay their invoice online they still contact people by post which is a waste of time and money.
Do you think it's good enough for the FAI not to be innovative or are you happy with an association which made a loss of €16m odd in the last financial year?
Last edited by Bluetonic; 04/11/2009 at 7:51 PM.
Yes it would stop the transfer to touts but to me this is very, very minimal from the BB scheme.
How exactly is the card going to stop transfers of tickets between big groups? If you know someone who you're giving a spare ticket you have it's not going to bother you whether you give them a physical ticket or a card as you know them so you'll get the card back.
I know people with season tickets cross channel and they're constantly giving out their swipe cards to friends, friends of friends etc
The FAI already have a fan scheme called the block book scheme. The FAI can learn lots from the GAA but how to do ticket allocations is certainly not one of those
At this stage its probably best to wait and see how many tickets change hands and are available at face value when we get back to Lansdowne, that'll be the real answer. We should be able to get a good idea of this from here and YBIG.
Do you agree that the issuing of physical tickets to the same people every couple of games is unnecessary in this day and age, the posting of invoices etc..., could be handled better by the FAI?
This isn't just talk of implementing a system for the sake of it, it's something which would set the FAI up for the future. The move to a 'new' stadium was a great opportunity to do this in my opinion. Sooner or later they will have to move away from the current archaic system. Invoices can be issued, payments received, tickets loaded onto fan card etc.., all in the blink of an eye these days keeping human interaction to a minimum and freeing up people to handle exceptions.
Just say such a system was in place for the home games and the away games had a system implemented such as we have discussed on here today well then its not too wild to assume the time spent processing requests and issuing tickets would be kept to a minimum, a day or two at most. The system would be future proof.
Last edited by Bluetonic; 04/11/2009 at 9:28 PM.
You say bb'rs 'control' large allocations of tickets, and I suppose we do, but for most of us it is an inconvience. Most of us I'm sure pay up front and then end up pulling the money back in. I personally would have no problem with the FAI going one ticket per block booker, and I'll supply the details of the others in the group, and then the FAI can send out more invoices, deal with more emails and phone calls, more money transactions etc etc
I don't see how this benefits anyone on the WL, certainly not the FAI, and will only make life easier for the main block booker who now only has to look after their own ticket.
Of course if they chose to implement an fan card system like I am blue in the face saying all their processes will be automatic and require minimum human interference.
It benefits everyone as follows imo:
- The main block booker who as you say now only has to look after their own ticket or pair of tickets.
- The FAI by giving them a complete database of (active) supporters for sales and marketing purposes which can be used as a tool for generating valuable revenue for Irish football from things like Vantage Club seats and official FAI merchandise, and will also allow them better track who's taking tickets for each match and help ensure they're distributed fairly when demand is particularly high (as in the upcoming play offs for example). Also, if the FAI could accept more people onto the BB and WL then this would surely increase the amount of people they can reach and promote football to. As has been mentioned elsewhere on the forum there's a danger of not enough young people making it to matches, this might help address that in some small way by ultimately ensuring more attendance at games as the same young people would find it easier to progress thru the WL
- Existing waiting listers by ensuring any tickets allocated to the BB scheme are distributed fairly and making it more difficult for touts. That's all anyone wants and I personally believe that if this is done then a higher churn on the BB scheme will result and those WL'ers who have patiently waited will be rewarded. Actually, one point which no one has raised is that there must also surely be a number of WL'ers getting tickets from BB'ers at present. If a BB'er gave the name of a WL'er when their allocation was divided up as suggested this would also help reduce the size of the WL which is what we all want (I think/hope).
Last edited by eaststand85; 05/11/2009 at 10:04 AM.
Another point for consideration is the ROISSC's in Ireland and the UK. Im not entirely sure how they all work but Im pretty certain that all BB details are maintained by the Suporters Clubs (which will be in the 100's) and not the FAI.
Obviously this could move to the FAI if thats what the system required but in doing this would it then start to remove the need for groups and associations such as the ROISSC? One of its key activities is the organisation of members tickets - do we want to get rid of fan groups? I dont think we do.
Its a tangent I know but relevant I think.
I thought you were off the drink Ronnie?
"No, I drink to help me mind my own business....can I get you one? (c) Ronnie Drew
Mentioned earlier in the discussion that FAI member clubs allocations could be managed separately and I see no reason why supporters clubs abroad couldn't be treated in the same way.
Just another not here, back in Lansdowne waiting listers would be offered ticket to friendlies as the capacity of Lansdowne would be greatly increased, this won't be the case in the new Lansdowne as capacity is static. Only those sponsors tickets which aren't required for friendlies will move to the waiting list - I doubt this will be many.
On another note I hope to God the FAI are going to catagorise the tickets. I know they are talking about keeping the prices the same as Croke Park but there is no way a ticket in the lower at the half way line, should be the same as a lower at the corner flag, in the same way a ticket in the upper at the half way line at the front should be more than a lower at the corner flag, or upper corner flag. Please God someone tell me there is a range of ticket prices (similar to how they've catarogised the Vantage Club) around the ground and not just A & B.
There would of course be work to accommodate the block booking around this but in my opinion it has to be done.
Last edited by Bluetonic; 05/11/2009 at 10:04 AM.
No I meant that your system is for dictating who gets away tickets using a points tallied system.
For a while there I thought you were going to use away match attendance for home game tickets. spaced out a bit. appreciate the explanation.
Although the FAI state that all general public seats are sold for the Aviva (they ar epaying €44 million so they deserve the publicity) even the most optimistic salesperson wouldn't claim they'll sellout the Vantage Club. In most cases the away allocation will also be available. I expect anyone on the WL will be offered tickets for games at the Aviva going forward.
I hope they don't categorise any further. They have guaranteed to keep prices the same up to 2012. Categorising always pushes prices up not down. Maybe at the next price increase it might be a good idea.
Yeah I do agree that the card system is the way they should go alright - just won't get people onto the Block Booking list any quicker I don't think
Im a WLer. I dont ever recall a friendly in the last 10/15 years in LR where it was a struggle to get tickets. The only one that I can think of is the Brazil scoreless draw a few years back.
The issue of availabilty of Aviva tickets was discussed on newstalk last night. Apparently there will be more corporate tickets in the new LR (15k) than there is in croker. Astonishing if you ask me. On that basis, if the corporate level is 15k and the BB is approx 30k, its no wonder there was very little tickets left over for allocation to WL.
They were discussing the prospect of big games been moved to croker in future years. They rightly concluded it wont happen without a substantial compensation to Aviva, ie it wont happen.
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