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Thread: The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

  1. #581
    Reserves dortie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MariborKev View Post
    Sorry, imagine wanting to treat other clubs with the respect I would like us to be treated with. Shame on me
    .
    Thats fair enough if we knew the fine detail of each case, there is 2 sides to many of the stories out there at the minute. Wait until we get a formal answer from the Board.

    The anti board syndrome is amazing considering these board 'volunteers' inherited a financial mess to begin with not to mention an overpaid medicore team. Lets not forget about the manager !
    Go lí cúnna ifrinn do thóin bheagmhaitheasach

  2. #582
    Reserves dortie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Ah yes, the good old "The players deserve nothing because they lost a few games" argument. Very good.

    Do you not think a winding up order is fact enough for you, if you refuse to acknowledge that players are entitled to be paid what they're told they'll be paid?
    Lost a few games ? Won nothing over 2 seasons, not to mention getting beat week after week at home by part-timers. I doubt our playing budget was provided on the basis of winning a league cup.

    Refuse to acknowledge what ? Your going on rumour and a press release from the players themselves, again i have not been privy to our exact financial detail and will wait until i know the facts before feeling sorry for anyone. I am hoping alot of underpayment is in respect of bonuses, i cant for the life of me think we would have much to pay out ?
    Go lí cúnna ifrinn do thóin bheagmhaitheasach

  3. #583
    Football hure MariborKev's Avatar
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    Wait until we get a formal answer
    Glad I am not holding my breath on that one.
    Last edited by MariborKev; 03/11/2009 at 3:27 PM.
    Tifo poles, sausage rolls and a few goals.

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    International Prospect Ezeikial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dortie View Post
    Kev, its obvious we have serious issues, possibly in debt more than we can imagine.. but do me a favour ? Can you resist from being the doom and gloom agent, not to mention feeding the 'Derry are a disgrace', 'Poor Dungannon' and 'We despise any club that dont stick to the 65% rule' band wagon for now !
    If MK feels "doomy and gloomy" about the situation, are you suggesting that he should not express that here? Apart from the inevitable "feeding" of club-bashers intent on point scoring, is there any other reason?

    Dissenting voices who speak from their heart have far more power-to-change then those who slavish follow a party line irrespective of their true feelings. No can impose Delusion, it is always self-inflicted.

    Quote Originally Posted by dortie View Post
    Lets see, before i get accused of supporting financial malpractice or indeed burying my head in the sand i would prefer not to speculate or debate the clubs situation 'until' we see the facts. To be honest reading this thread is really laughable considering nobody has any substantial facts or figures.
    Maybe I have it wrong, but I understood a kernal point being made was that the Derry City board were being consitently economical with the facts. Speculation is inevitable if this is so.

  5. #585
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dortie View Post
    Your going on rumour and a press release from the players themselves
    No I'm not.

    Won nothing over two season? Diddums. Players definitely don't deserve to be paid so.

  6. #586
    Seasoned Pro OneRedArmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post
    All of which prompts the question as to where exactly the money has gone from the Brandywell.
    Fairly simple.
    Wages for Kenny, players and staff and ludicrous expenditure on away games which involved overnight stays for games 3 hours from Derry, flying to Cork etc. etc.

    There's no conspiracy there.

    Having King Kenny as your manager is like going out with Mariah Carey. Lots of excitement, looks pretty and you get lots of jealous looks, but its seriously high maintenance and unless you watch yourself it will cost you a fortune.

  7. #587
    Reserves dortie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezeikial View Post

    Dissenting voices who speak from their heart have far more power-to-change then those who slavish follow a party line irrespective of their true feelings. No can impose Delusion, it is always self-inflicted.

    Totally agree, anyone who knows me well enough will inform you i have no loyalty to any Board member/Player or Manager, present or past. I will also not jump on bandwagons in regards to financial rightousness until i know the exact facts.
    Go lí cúnna ifrinn do thóin bheagmhaitheasach

  8. #588
    Reserves dortie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneRedArmy View Post
    Fairly simple.
    Wages for Kenny, players and staff and ludicrous expenditure on away games which involved overnight stays for games 3 hours from Derry, flying to Cork etc. etc.

    There's no conspiracy there.

    Having King Kenny as your manager is like going out with Mariah Carey. Lots of excitement, looks pretty and you get lots of jealous looks, but its seriously high maintenance and unless you watch yourself it will cost you a fortune.
    Im 100% with you on this one ORA. Kenny seems to be exempt from the knives at present, which is beyond me.
    Go lí cúnna ifrinn do thóin bheagmhaitheasach

  9. #589
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    Do you mean in terms of not delivering success or in terms of paying players too much or demanding over indulgent expenses or even all of those?. Genuine question by the way
    Upwards to the vanguard where the pressure is too high.

  10. #590
    Football hure MariborKev's Avatar
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    All of them in my view.
    Tifo poles, sausage rolls and a few goals.

    The Brandy Blogs, back and blogging the 2010 season

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    Seasoned Pro EalingGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dortie View Post
    i would prefer not to speculate or debate the clubs situation 'until' we see the facts. To be honest reading this thread is really laughable considering nobody has any substantial facts or figures.
    We now know the facts and figures of the McGinn saga, at least. If you revisit Mr. P's post of the Sunday World report (Pg. 28, #547), we heard the following directly from Jarlath Faloon of the Swifts:

    "We had to wait 8 or 9 months for the original [Swifts to DCFC transfer] payment... ...and then we received no word from Derry from the minute Niall signed for Celtic. Their Chairman Pat McDaid never answered any calls and we simply couldn't get speaking to anyone from the club."

    "We only found out what Derry paid for Niall when the judge ordered their legal team to disclose the figure.


    "The case was settled last month in court with the agreement to pay £10,000 at once then stagger the £30,000 over 3 months, on the last day of the month" [DCFC didn't even make the first payment, despite being under a Court order]

    Faloon goes on: "If Pat had phoned me and said, 'Jarlath, we're struggling here', we would have helped out, but he didn't do that, so we had to go down the legal route.

    "We got nothing and heard nothing until we took the club to court"


    Faloon is a solicitor, who cannot afford to get a reputation for deceiving people, especially over a matter which has come before the Courts. Therefore, since he was happy to be quoted directly in a newspaper interview, I think we can take his account as fact.

    In which case, considering DCFC were refusing at one point to admit they they even owed Swifts any money, never mind pay that they were slow in paying it, the DCFC Board can have little credibility.

    Moreover, we can safely assume that that this is not just a case of DCFC being eg "a bit short of money" at the moment. For whilst you can "play ducks and drakes" with players over back wages, or even with other clubs like Linfield or Swifts etc, to ignore a Court order/winding up threat for a relatively small sum like £40k, would indicate they must be very heavily in debt.
    Last edited by EalingGreen; 03/11/2009 at 6:03 PM.

  12. #592
    Banned dcfcsteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dortie View Post
    Totally agree, anyone who knows me well enough will inform you i have no loyalty to any Board member/Player or Manager, present or past. I will also not jump on bandwagons in regards to financial rightousness until i know the exact facts.
    The facts may never actually be forthcoming.

    And the fact that they haven't been for so long tells its own story.

    The fact that there's deliberately zero facts being released says it all. Open your eyes - you're starting to sound like a global warming denier.

  13. #593
    Like the Fonz. Only a dog. Mr A's Avatar
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    Some interesting comments in this:

    http://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk...aid.5791512.jp

    Trying to sort all the problems at once? Seems pretty ambitious!
    #NeverStopNotGivingUp

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    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post
    I suspect that the LOI will now retreat from previously unsustainable spending levels, if nothing else through complete lack of choice.

    The question is whether DCFC will still be around to participate in this new dispensation.


    What was that you were saying about "conjecture" at the start of your post?

    Where is your evidence that the IL will fall prey to this, especially with their having seen what unsustainable spending by their Southern neighbours has done?

    Quite honestly, after years of certain LOI fans looking down on the IL for being unambitious and "small town" etc, it's a bit rich for someone now to suggest that they're suddenly going to start "chasing the dream" - and in the middle of a recession at that!

    Leaving aside the possibility of DCFC nor being allowed to compete in the LOI next season (or even being around?), it stands to reason that if the finances were sorted out so that both Leagues were properly run, on a p-t basis, then DCFC could expect to be more genuinely competitive in the IL than the LOI.
    After all, haven't you been telling us for years that the standard of football in the LOI is so much higher than the IL?


    Dear oh dear. You don't know much about the Glens, do you? The fact is that due to previous incompetence by the Board etc (inc trying to compete with the IFA-subsidised Linfield), the club is £600k in debt. However, this is secured against the Oval, which they own and which despite being decrepit as a football ground, is still potentially very valuable for development purposes.

    Moreover, unlike eg Bohs or Pats, the Glens have been just about managing that debt for some years, chiefly by refusing to get drawn into an "arms race". (Keith Gillespie was only signed, for example, on condition that a sponsor would cover his wages. Plus they desist from prioritising Europe, despite the sneers which follow heavy defeats etc). At the same time, they are the current IL Champions (and Setanta Runners-Up), so arguably they haven't suffered too much from their economising

    Anyhow, whilst there is no money even to give the place a lick of paint, never mind "go nuclear", the Board at last looks to be living within its means and should not be forced to sell the Oval until it is ready to move to an alternative (Blanchflower Park has already been identified, though I'd say it's a long way off).

    And it seems you know even less about the Ports...

    In fact, they already are owned by a "Sugar Daddy" of sorts, Bobby Jameson (though that's not how many people might describe him!)

    Anyhow, after years of spending on players and wages to try and keep up with the "Big Two", Jameson has cut back on that, deciding instead to rebuild Shamrock Park completely, with three brand new stands, plus other improvements (new floodlights, training facilities etc).

    When they screwed up with their application for the new Irish Premier League, some people feared that this would banjax the whole scheme; however, the floodlights are installed, two new Stands have been completed and the third has been deferred. Assuming this last goes ahead, Shamrock Park will arguably be better than any LOI ground bar Tallaght and possibly Turners Cross (though at least it will have a team to play in it)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamrock_Park
    http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium...shamrock.shtml

    The only people who appear to imagine that pigs might fly are those people at the Brandywell who have spent years imagining that the laws of (economic) gravity somehow don't apply to them...
    EG - I haven't bene on here since last week, but I couldn't let your above response slip.

    You're usually a fairly sensible poster, but the wooshing sensation you felt above your head when reading that last post wasn't because you'd just opened a window.

    I used the likes of Glens and Ports purely as examples. It could just as easily have said 'club x' and 'club y'.

    My point was that your whole City/Irish League debate was based on conjecture. So I responded to it with further conjecture. Only for you to miss the point and take it literally

    Thankfully you've dropped the whole 'City back in Irish League' fixation anyway

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr A View Post
    Some interesting comments in this:

    http://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk...aid.5791512.jp

    Trying to sort all the problems at once? Seems pretty ambitious!
    The most important thing in that statement is that our Chairman is alluding to the fact that we're unlikely to be in the Premier Division next year.

    Is there any debt situation that would get you a First Division or A League license, but not a Premier one ?

  16. #596
    Football hure MariborKev's Avatar
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    TBF, he doesn't actually say that Steve.
    Tifo poles, sausage rolls and a few goals.

    The Brandy Blogs, back and blogging the 2010 season

  17. #597
    Reborn thischarmingman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dortie View Post
    Im 100% with you on this one ORA. Kenny seems to be exempt from the knives at present, which is beyond me.
    I think ORA's pithy summation of Kenny has a lot of truth. However, I'd like to point out that as manager, it's Kenny's job to push for what he thinks is best for the team; conversely, it's the boards job to tell him where the limits are and to ensure he is not overspending. At most football clubs, there's usually a compromise between the two, however uneasy it may be.

    The simple truth is that if the board lack the ability to say the word "No," then they're worse than useless. Kenny can ask by all means, but as with every manager, "no" might just as easily be forthcoming as "yes" depending on the circumstances at the time of asking. It's absolutely ludicrous, for example, reading posts on DCFC chat over the last few days that have claims to the effect that Kenny put a gun to the board's head and threatened to resign if he didn't get what he wanted. If that wasthe case I'd expect the board to be able to grow a pair and answer in the negative. If they can't, I place the blame squarely in their shoulders.

    From the way people have been going on the past while, you'd think Kenny was a little dictator, while the puppet government just cower behind him, unable to disagree. It's like parents who never say no to their spoilt little brat of a child, "Oh, if we do he starts crying, he says everyone else has one, how could we possibly say no?" Don't be so pathetic- grow up, take responsibility and do your job.

  18. #598
    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
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    Does anyone believe they will demote Derry now ? I cant see it, but I do think both they and Cork deserve a considerable points deduction for non payment of wages.

    Maybe the FAI will start them both with a minus points rule like they have in the UK for clubs in crisis?

    You would imagine if Derry and Cork were two ordinary small clubs it would be a case of bye bye a long time ago, Cobh Ramblers ?
    #DundalkFC - First Irish club to win an away game in Europe (1963), only Irish club to win a game / points in Europa League Group Stage (2016).

  19. #599
    Like the Fonz. Only a dog. Mr A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcfcsteve View Post

    Is there any debt situation that would get you a First Division or A League license, but not a Premier one ?
    Technically I don't think so. But I can't see them excluding clubs from the A league seeing as they let Cobh into it.
    #NeverStopNotGivingUp

  20. #600
    Football hure MariborKev's Avatar
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    Why would you take on the debt and go to the A League? Why not just start afresh with a new company?
    Tifo poles, sausage rolls and a few goals.

    The Brandy Blogs, back and blogging the 2010 season

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