The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

**EalingGreen** · 30/10/2009, 10:43 AM

(Originally Posted by EalingGreen)
"As I see it, DCFC may be forced to consider the IL as being more financially viable than the 'A' League"

Originally Posted by ifk101

How do you make that out? You do realise that the A Championship is regionalised so the difference in transport costs would be minimal. Then again you'd have to factor in the increase in "other costs" that a return to the IL would entail ......

I was well aware that the 'A' is regionalised. Nonetheless, all bar Finn Harps 'A' of the present teams in the Northern 'A' region would involve further/more difficult travelling than the IL.
And the extra "other" costs (security etc) would be at least partially offset by increased visiting support (esp if they were in the IL Premier).
Moreover, dropping down to the LOI 'A' League would mean they would be two promotions from the LOI Premier and without money to pay decent wages, they might have difficulty attracting players who are both prepared to play at that level and good enough to get them up.

Whereas they would be only one promotion from the IL Premier (or none at all, if readmitted straight in).

**passerrby** · 30/10/2009, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

No. My understanding is that prize money for league finishes isn't doled out until the wage cap issue, and any points deductions, has been dealt with.

European participation money has been forward lent to some clubs.

Just what this thread needs - more conjecture....

Firstly a sum of money was paid on receipt of your license then a further amount was paid in the middle of the season both of these come from a clubs potential prize fund the balance is paid at the end of the season and is nothing to do with wage cap issues which will only impact on the following seasons licence
secondly if derry are unable to pay wages etc it is only common sense to assume they cannot pay other outstanding bills

**ifk101** · 30/10/2009, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

(Originally Posted by EalingGreen)
"As I see it, DCFC may be forced to consider the IL as being more financially viable than the 'A' League"

I was well aware that the 'A' is regionalised. Nonetheless, all bar Finn Harps 'A' of the present teams in the Northern 'A' region would involve further/more difficult travelling than the IL.
And the extra "other" costs (security etc) would be at least partially offset by increased visiting support (esp if they were in the IL Premier).
Moreover, dropping down to the LOI 'A' League would mean they would be two promotions from the LOI Premier and without money to pay decent wages, they might have difficulty attracting players who are both prepared to play at that level and good enough to get them up.

Whereas they would be only one promotion from the IL Premier (or none at all, if readmitted straight in).

Increased visiting support?

I'd assume Derry would have to start of in Championship 2 if they were to re-enter the Irish League. How much of a travelling support do Chimney Corner bring with them?

Say for example they were allow to start off in Championship 1. Do you realise what the average attendence is at a Championship 1 game? We're takling double digit figures here, at a push 3 digit figures.

Any even if Derry get into the top division, how many IL teams bring a crowd with them? Can't imagine Dungannon and Institute travel with more than 10 fans.

Let's be honest here, there's no way re-entering the IL could be more financial viable based on the assumption of increased visiting support.

**EalingGreen** · 30/10/2009, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Good luck to them on that front. Given there was a row over who'd take Bangor's place, I'd say there's be a row here too. I don't know if there's any precedent for jumping a team straight in at the top flight of any league. And there's also no reason to suppose there'd be an opening at Championship level.

The problem with Bangor declaring they would voluntarily withdraw from the IPL was that it was both unprecedented and mid-season.
Whereas the whole point about the IPL when it was recently set up was that it was essentially an Invitation League (to start with).
Therefore in principle, the IFA may be be able to invite DCFC to join them. And to head off any opposition from existing Prem or Championship clubs, the obvious way to get them into the Prem would be by expanding it from 12 to 14 clubs i.e. DCFC plus one other.
That way, no other club would lose out, in fact, one additional club would benefit, either by not being relegated from the Prem as expected, or by getting an unexpected promotion from the Championship.
Thereafter, at the end of that season, the Prem could revert to 12 teams, either by three down and one up, or by four down and two up.
Obviously DCFC would have to take their chance on not being one of the relegated clubs, but I imagine their fans would be pretty confident on that score.

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

On the A League, Derry would (if it came to it) be in a regionalised Northern section, which would help reduce travelling significantly. For example, Derry's A team group this year is Salthill (Galway), Drogheda, Harps, Castlebar (Mayo), Tullamore (Offaly), Dundalk, Sligo and Galway. The potential crowd against Harps would possibly make up for any increase in travel or reduction in number of games played and associated gate receipts.

You overlook the fact that the 'A' League has only 9 teams, so offers far fewer games than the IL Championship (14 teams).
And should Intitute get relegated from the Prem, that would be a "derby" game to replace the Harps. (OK, maybe that's pushing it a bit

)

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I honestly wouldn't think there'd be much difference in standard between the A League and the Championship, although I've only been to one Championship game (and that involved Portadown). UCD won the A League last year and this year are going for the First Division title with about seven or eight of that league winning team. Mervue came third of eight in their A group last year and survived the First Division comfortably enough. The A League isn't that bad. In any event, I don't think the quality of the league would be relevant as either way, Derry wouldn't intend on staying there.

You might be right.

**EalingGreen** · 30/10/2009, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by ifk101

Increased visiting support?

I'd assume Derry would have to start of in Championship 2 if they were to re-enter the Irish League. How much of a travelling support do Chimney Corner bring with them?

Say for example they were allow to start off in Championship 1. Do you realise what the average attendence is at a Championship 1 game? We're takling double digit figures here, at a push 3 digit figures.

Any even if Derry get into the top division, how many IL teams bring a crowd with them? Can't imagine Dungannon and Institute travel with more than 10 fans.

Let's be honest here, there's no way re-entering the IL could be more financial viable based on the assumption of increased visiting support.

I think you need to revert to first principles here.

As I've repeatedly stressed, the only way DCFC might re-enter the IL is if they fail to get a Licence from the LOI. However, if that should prove to be the case, then (self-evidently) that would be because they are totally skint.

In which case, if they were to play in the 'A' League, they would struggle to attract new money (crowds, sponsors etc) to the B'well, so would have very little cash to pay players good enough to guarantee immediate promotion.
And even if they were able to struggle along for one season in the 'A' whilst they clinched that promotion, they would still be another season away from the LOI Premier. Could they manage two more seasons on "starvation rations"?

Of course, if the choice were between the 'A' League and the IL Championship (only), DCFC might well chose the former. However, that just means that if the IFA were minded to let DCFC back in the fold, they would need to find a way of getting them straight back in the Premier Division.

And as I argued earlier, there are ways which this could be done without provoking insuperable opposition from the existing clubs.

**ifk101** · 30/10/2009, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

However, that just means that if the IFA were minded to let DCFC back in the fold, they would need to find a way of getting them straight back in the Premier Division.

And as I argued earlier, there are ways which this could be done without provoking insuperable opposition from the existing clubs.

Shifting the goal posts so to speak. So things haven't changed since Derry's time in the IL then?

**micls** · 30/10/2009, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by brianw82

Unless you're Cork City.

What prize money did we get that any other club didnt?

**Mr A** · 30/10/2009, 12:11 PM

From the Derry forum:

FAI WANT CASH ASSURANCES
By: PHILIP QUINN

THE FAI are seeking assurances from Derry City that all player contracts are correct before advancing the club money from the Premier Division prize fund to help ease the financial crisis.

With two games to go, Derry cannot finish worse than fourth, which is worth €60,000.

After a meeting yesterday, the club's board and players provisionally agreed a payment plan to cover the outstanding wages of eight weeks owed to players.

While it could take Derry months to clear the money owed to players, once both parties agree to the plan and sign off on it, it would not be an issue when Derry City seek a UEFA licence for the 2010 season — the club have no intention of quitting the League of Ireland for the Irish League. Eight Derry City players are out of contract at the end of the season, including captain Peter Hutton, who plays his 662nd senior game tonight, — his last at the Brandywell — against Bray, having given 18 seasons of service to the club.

Derry manager Stephen Kenny wants to stay at the club and has not given up on qualification for the Europa League by finishing third.

PHILIP QUINN

That first paragraph is very interesting indeed.

**EalingGreen** · 30/10/2009, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by ifk101

Shifting the goal posts so to speak. So things haven't changed since Derry's time in the IL then?

To an extent, yes.

But bear in mind that DCFC were a top flight team when they were in the IL and a top flight team since they've been in the LOI. And financial mismanagement notwithstanding, it would be hard to argue that they would not have IPL credentials if they were forced to exit the LOI.

Moreover, when the IL was re-organised a couple of seasons ago, it wasn't just the goalposts which were moved, but the whole playing field was relaid.

Leagues do re-organise from time-to-time, so to devise another such re-organisation which was of mutual benefit to both the IFA and DCFC would hardly be too radical a departure from past practice.

Besides, if the IFA ever needed any guidance on "moving goalposts", they need look no further than to their Southern chums. Or have you forgotten about eg the demise of Limerick and Cobh, as against the continued survival of Cork City or the purchase of United Park...

**EalingGreen** · 30/10/2009, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Mr A

From the Derry forum:

FAI WANT CASH ASSURANCES
By: PHILIP QUINN

"THE FAI are seeking assurances from Derry City that all player contracts are correct before advancing the club money from the Premier Division prize fund to help ease the financial crisis"

That first paragraph is very interesting indeed.

I'll say! Note the use of "correct", as opposed eg to "paid up" or "settled".

Do I smell fudge bubbling away in the Abbotstown kitchens? Or is that the familiar aroma of books being cooked?

**ifk101** · 30/10/2009, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Besides, if the IFA ever needed any guidance on "moving goalposts", they need look no further than to their Southern chums. Or have you forgotten about eg the demise of Limerick and Cobh, as against the continued survival of Cork City or the purchase of United Park...

How true EG, how true .....