Obviously Whelan/GibsonOriginally Posted by lankyboy26
Debatable. The decision to start one player or the other at club level comes down to the opinion of one man. Should Trapattoni's decision to start A and B be dictated by the individual opinions of respective managers at club level or should we give the man we're paying millions in wages the power to make his own decisions?
Last edited by ifk101; 20/11/2008 at 8:33 AM.
I dont think Trap does re-evaluation. The most we can expect is some minor selection tinkering with the current inadequate crop. Maybe Andrews for Gibson and Finnan, Keane, McGeady will presumably be back as well. But there is no way that he will rethink the system or back track on Andy Reid or Carsely. The critical weaknesses in centre mid and defence will remain, because it is too late to introduce the players who could conceivably improve us in those areas (Foley, St Ledger, Garvan, McCann etc). Poland are not a great side and on last nighte eveidence I would be surprised if we got more than two points from the games with Bulgaria and Italy home and away.
I hate sounding like the prophet of doom, but too many of the current squad are simply not good enough to be playing at this level. We should be picking and developing players with the technical ability and potential required to succeed in international football.
At the present moment I would rather have Owen Coyle managing the Irish team than the current regime.
Where are these players you are talking about?
Its not like the pool is particularly deep.
that's fair enough, it's trap's decision. but surely now it's time to wake up and put his differences with andy reid aside, get rid of whelan and gibson before we're humiliated by italy or bulgaria. is it going to take a heavy defeat before he changes things? or are we gonna keep scraping 1-0 wins against the likes of cyprus and mediocre draws with the mighty montenegroObviously Whelan/Gibson
Debatable. The decision to start one player or the other at club level comes down to the opinion of one man. Should Trapattoni's decision to start A and B be dictated by the individual opinions of respective managers at club level or should we give the man we're paying millions in wages the power to make his own decisions?
"It's not about winning, it's taking people apart that counts"
I think losing this game was the best thing that could have happened to us. It forced Trapatoni to make substitutions. If we were 1-0 up I don't think he would have made half as many substitutions and we wouldn't have got to see Andrews or Noel Hunt.
I thought Whelan did well considering he was playing in the middle with Gibson. Next game should see Whelan start in CM with Andrews. I have alot of respect for KK but I think he's heading past his best. McShane did better than normal but you are always nervous when he has the ball or someone is running at him. Would have been an ideal night to start Foley. We need to start giving a left full some experience in friendlies as a future replacement for Kilbane. Delaney and Ward would fit the bill.
Wasn't impressed by Bruce at all and Dunne looked shakey at times. Duff should have scored at least one and passed the ball without looking on a number of occasions (to nobody).
It's a pity that Trap is choosing Premier League subs over Championship regulars but it's early days yet and things may change, however, although Carsley is playing well at Birmingham, he will probably be retiring next season and would be 36 by the time the World Cup comes around. People are saying that Delap should be in the team but they have obviously not watched him play this season other than the highlights of his throw-ins on match of the day. Steven Reid is badly missed.
everyone has their own opinion on who should start and they are entitled to it of courseObviously Whelan/Gibson
Debatable. The decision to start one player or the other at club level comes down to the opinion of one man. Should Trapattoni's decision to start A and B be dictated by the individual opinions of respective managers at club level or should we give the man we're paying millions in wages the power to make his own decisions?
but playing players that are not even getting first team football at international level....its farcical...nobody in their right mind can justify that..apart from trappatoni and brady seemingly..which is very worrying
if stan did that and brady was still an analyst on rte , brady would have crucified him....it just does not make sense
i appreciate we dont have a huge pool of players ....but at least play players that are getting first team football
poland are an extremely poor side - yet we made them look good
gibson was out of his depth last nite , as was whelan
Last edited by back of the net; 20/11/2008 at 9:40 AM.
couldn't agree with you more. brady is a hypocrite. the slating staunton got was justifiable but surely now it's justifiable to slate the current management team. we've been rubbish in the qualifying games in my opinion. and poland are a very average side. they destroyed us in midfield and anyone who knows anything about soccer can see that. can you imagine if the england manager left gareth barry or frank lampard on the bench and started with danny guthrie or kevin nolan??? there'd be war. and rightly so
"It's not about winning, it's taking people apart that counts"
I am willing to wager that within 12 months Garvan, O'Toole, McCann and possibly McCarthy will be playing at Premiership or equivalent level. I think Fahey also demonstrates more guile and potential than any of the midfield players in the current squad. What seems absolutely ludicrous is that we have not taken the last 8 months to have a look at these players all of whom have been collecting plaudits and getting the attention of Prem managers. Instead we put our faith in players who have already demonstrated their limitations at this level, or who are struggling to get a game with their club sides. And guess what happens? We get overrun by Cyprus and Poland.i
So what are we suggesting here?
Change the side every game based on who's playing with their respective clubs and who's not? And are we suggesting pick the individual and not the team?
I tend to agree with what ye are saying here. It was proved last night that we are not a good team. We have some good players, Duff, Doyle, Keane, Dunne Finnan, McGeady (Steven Reid injured) Andy Reid (not good enough in Traps eyes) and Given but where are we going to get the other five from to make a decent team?
There are good players out there in the likes of Garvan, McCann, McCarthy St Ledger who should be in the squad but they may as well not exist.
We have beaten no one of any use yet and we were well beaten by a very limited Polish team. Unless Trap wakes up and smells the coffee we won’t even finish fourth in this group.
Last edited by FarBeag; 20/11/2008 at 10:08 AM.
Great argument. Poland are no good yet they qualified for this summer's EC whilst we were nowhere near qualifying.
If only we had picked a bunch of chaps playing in the Championship we would of hammered those Poles last night.Indeed Trapattoni - wake up and smell the coffee!
Last edited by ifk101; 20/11/2008 at 10:16 AM.
to be honest farbeag , i dont really know if its down to us been a good team or not - i dont think we will really know how good we are until trap starts playing the right players that deserve to be in the team on merit
like you said there are good players out there - your examples of garvan , mccann and o'toole
had we played these guys last nite - would we have been so overrun in midfield?..probably not
but instead for some mystifying reason we are playing reserve club players instead of these guys and cos of this we cant really make a judgement on how the far the team has come or how far the team has gone backwards
its really really worrying..
How quick we are to moan. Nothing has changed, S Reid has not been replaced in midfield and the only obvious candidate for the next few matches is Carsley, Gibson was much better than against Cyprus but Whealen was trying to hard.
The game was decided in the first half when Folan let his marker have a header for the goal followed by Duff not testing the Keeper with 3 attempts. Duff's goals to shooting ratio is rubbish, even hitting the target is terrible. Still a great attacking option.
A deffo penalty in the first half not given, another peno in the seconf half (on Lona) not given, dubious peno (on Long) given.
Long was suprisingly effective and very involved when he came on, S Hunt does what he does best as a sub for Ireland.
The defense was all at sea throughout the game with plaudets to none of the 5 who tried out.
The Polish fans made it a great night and shows what Croke Park could be like if the Irish supporters were there to support the team and not just to be entertained.
So you think they are good based on the fact they reached a tournament in the summer? Were they any good then? No they were not and it wasn’t just them that were rubbish.
Did you see them play last night and if so do you think they are still as good as you make them out to be? Do you think we have a good team?
They are not a good team and either are we. We did not qualify for the last EC because we were not good enough and we won’t qualify for the WC either unless things are changed. We have players out there to make our team better but Trapp wants to ignore them. Can you not see this?
Poland were better - they won the game.
go and play some reserves team players from premiership clubs ahead of good players playing regulary for their clubs in the championship!!!is that what we should do??..ridiculousGreat argument. Poland are no good yet they qualified for this summer's EC whilst we were nowhere near qualifying.
If only we had picked a bunch of chaps playing in the Championship we would of hammered those Poles last night.
the polish side consisted of a lot of polish league players i think(open to correction ) - and if thats the case then i would expect our championship players to easily have the edge on them
I found it interesting that in the B game, most of us would have said Andrews was the better of midfield pairing of himself and Gibson. He showed for the ball more, showed more energy and pretty much dominated the play. Gibson held himself back a lot more and wasn't involved in the play as much. Trap picks Gibson ahead of Andrews though because of this system. This system that's allowing teams to dominate against us.
With everyone fit.. Carsley, S.Reid, A.Reid, Garvan and Andrews. I'd probably pick those 5 central midfielders. We've a steriotypical holding midfielder in Carsley, an energetic box to box player in Andrews, a playmaking box to box player in S.Reid, and 2 real playmakers A.Reid and Garvan.
That midfield is good enough. It's better than Bulgaria's surely. Even without S.Reid we could put a good pairing together from the other 4.
I backed Whelan previously but that was more backing up his excellent performances beside S.Reid. Carsley has now moved ahead of him in the pecking order for me.
What do you base this assumption on?
The Polish players were better technically than most of our Premiership players!
The Poles are a better side than we are, demonstrated by being ranked higher than us and having qualified for the Euros.
Trapattoni has 2 choices. He can (1) pick a team of individuals or (2) he can pick the individual to fit the team. You want him to chose option 1, I want him to chose option 2.
You don't know who was playing for Poland last night or their respective clubs or the overall quality of those clubs in comparison to the Championship, so that was an interesting point to make.
i want option 2 as well - but option 2 is not going to work if you are using players that dont play regular club football.Trapattoni has 2 choices. He can (1) pick a team of individuals or (2) he can pick the individual to fit the team. You want him to chose option 1, I want him to chose option 2.
You don't know who was playing for Poland last night or their respective clubs or the overall quality of those clubs in comparison to the Championship, so that was an interesting point to make.
im judging the polish players that played last nite - we are talking about last nites game - and i did not see any fantastic technical ability from them -thats what im basing my comparison on
all i saw was limited polish players play through an irish midfield consisting of 2 reserves that were completely out of their depth
an irish midfield that would have been far more stable imo if we had played the players from the championship and who are getting first team football at their clubs
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