Irish UEFA Coefficient Points

Just thought Id post this here so as people who are making silly comments about bohs doing all the donkey work can see exactly how our coefficient is made up....

The coefficient is made up from the past 5 seasons points

Season..Points
00/01 - 5 (Bohs 3.0 / Shels 2.0 / Cork 0.0)
01/02 - 2 (Bohs 1.5 / Longford 0.5 / Shels 0.0)
02/03 - 0.5 (Shels 0.5 / Shamrock Rovers 0.0 / Dundalk 0.0)
03/04 - 1 (Bohs 1.0 / Derry 0.0 / Shels 0.0)
04/05 - 4 (Shels 3.5 / Bohs 0.5 / Longford 0.0)

Total - 12.5

The breakdown of the points over the seasons is as follows,

Bohs 6
Shels 6
Longford 0.5
Cork 0
Derry 0
Dundalk 0
Shamrock rovers 0


Bohs and Shels have added 6 each to the total but as you can see the 3 pts bohs got in 2000 will no longer count from next season.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by higgins

Bohs and Shels have added 6 each to the total but as you can see the 3 pts bohs got in 2000 will no longer count from next season.

---

Neither will 2 of Shels' points. But I bet ye next year, yer looking forward to claiming Shels done all the "donkey work" with 4 points to Bohs 3.... :rolleyes:

PS...Bohs led the way 3 out of those five years.

Dancinpants if you have seen any of my posts on the coefficient issue over the years you will see that i have always gave bohs credit for what they have done for the Irish Coefficient..

I just had a problem with the whole Bohs did all the donkey work and we finished it off..

Shels and Bohs got 6 points each over the past 5 seasons.. The sad fact is the 12.5 in total is just about good enough to get us seeded. Bohs and Shels have had a big part in this.

The comment in the other thread started because someone made the comment that why should they shout for shels in Europe as it has done nothing for cork.

As bohs are only in the Intertoto then from next season Shels will have the highest points total (baring a massive Uefa Cup run for Longford or Cork and Bohs winning the Intertoto). Thats a FACT and its also very important that we get over the outgoing 1.666 (ie 5pts divided by 3 teams) so we have a decent chance of all being seeds next season.

The biggest problem is that more than 50% of our coefficient points have come from 2 runs. Only once have two teams got more than 0.5 points in the same year. We need Cork and Longford to to chip in as well as Shels next year.

Well thanks to the teams who got the hard earned points as UNSEEDED teams over the past 5 seasons we are all (fingers crossed) SEEDED this season so it should be easy to get a few wins in the first round.

Im not saying this as a shels fane but being SEEDED in the UEFA Cup gives you a great chance of winning a round and 2 games with it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by higgins

Well thanks to the teams who got the hard earned points as UNSEEDED teams over the past 5 seasons we are all (fingers crossed) SEEDED this season so it should be easy to get a few wins in the first round.

Im not saying this as a shels fane but being SEEDED in the UEFA Cup gives you a great chance of winning a round and 2 games with it!

---

Bohs and Longford were seeded last year and it didn't do us much good though. :(

I'd expect more from Cork this year than either Longford or Bohs last year though.

True, though Longford seem almost worse than last year...

Still, if we can get the 1.666 this season, then we'll be well placed for a good jump in the next couple of seasons.

With all due respect to Longford I am quite worried about their European chances this year and their chances of adding to a co-efficient which desperately needs more points due to the Bohs special season being chopped off. We'll be looking to Shels big time this year to put some points on the board though they actually didn't win many games last year in Europe (only 1 maybe?) which is a real points scorer. Ideally would they not only progress in the 1st round qualifier but win both legs to really get us points. Cork are an unknown quality. They have had some good results and bad results this season but hopefully with the experience of last year they'll have the know how and confidence to progress at least one round.

I'm a huge believer in the switch to Summer football, but I think it has the potential to cause as much damage to our European progress as it does to improve it.

Teams change year-on-year - particularly in a league like the EL which is still relatively open/competitive. In our league, in particular, there's always one or more team a season that has a dramatic change in their form. Most leagues in Europe finish in May, and their teams start competing in Europe in July/August. Therefore - a team that was good in May will probably still be good/one of the best only a couple of months later as well.

Under Summer football, however, our league finishes in October. Our teams who qualify for Europe therefore have the best part of a year, and the start of a new season, until they appear in Europe. As a result - those teams can change a lot - in both actual and relative performance. Bohs are currently a very pale shadow of the team they were last year - yet they're one of the teams flying our flag in Europe. Had they been the same team now that they were last October, they'd doubtless do better in Europe than they will now. We had the same situation with Longford last year - by the time Europe came round, their performances had dipped from the previous season. Only Shels and Cork have been consistent in our league recently - but that's only 50% of our Euro reps.

There's no decent way of allocating Euro slots under Summer football without having such a large time-gap. But sadly the gap it creates has the potential to reduce the quality of our reps, and therefeore our performances.

I think part of the problem is allowing the cup winners to enter the UEFA Cup.
Longford are clearly not strong enough for that competition.
This has been the case with so many Cup winners down the years.

I know it would devalue the cup as a competition, but I'm of the opinion that if the Cup winners don't finish in the top 3, they should enter the Intertoto Cup.

I bet if it was C/\wk in that position you'd be screaming blue murder if the FAI was considering your proposal.! :D

Cup winners for UEFA Cup... end of fcuking story.

none of this top three nonsense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Partizan

I bet if it was C/\wk in that position you'd be screaming blue murder

---

Not something you'll need to worry about because you'll never get near the cup or a top three finish.

The UEFA place for the cup winners is the old Cup Winner Cup European spot - a competition that took priority over the old UEFA Cup. Maybe teams who finish top 3 should take the cup seriously if they're that much bloody better.

Hopefully we'll do better this year, but it just happened that last year conicided with crap form, nothing to do with the actual make up of the team Steve - we finished with one more cup and just one place lower in the league.

Crap form can hit any team at any time. (Ignoring the fact that the team we lost to were full time with a playing budget bigger than anyone in this league).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Macy

Hopefully we'll do better this year, but it just happened that last year conicided with crap form, nothing to do with the actual make up of the team Steve - we finished with one more cup and just one place lower in the league.

---

Not having a go, but I hope your form starts to pick up quickly so, as you seem to be struggling a bit again this year. It all depends on the draw though, $hels got helpful (lucky ?) draws last year (cue howls from Higgins et al) and all 3 teams yet to have their fixtures decided may need a little luck in the first round draw.
Bohs have Gent, and this is already a tough fixture to get through.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by patsh

Not having a go, but I hope your form starts to pick up quickly so, as you seem to be struggling a bit again this year. It all depends on the draw though, $hels got helpful (lucky ?) draws last year (cue howls from Higgins et al) and all 3 teams yet to have their fixtures decided may need a little luck in the first round draw.
Bohs have Gent, and this is already a tough fixture to get through.

---

No arguement from me in that, but it's just football that poor form can hit any team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Macy

Maybe teams who finish top 3 should take the cup seriously if they're that much bloody better.

---

Being a knockout competition, the cup isn't a good indicator of form or quality. You saw that yourself last year when you American team met Millwall in the FA Cup final.
A good team can have an off day and get knocked out of the cup by a weaker team who've motivated themselves for the "big" game.

Longford may as well have given up if they couldn't motivate themselves for the cup when they had nothing to play for in the league.

I'm far happier to support a team with consistent league form but a recent lack of success in the cup rather than support a team like yours with indifferent league form but perceived cup pedigree. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

$hels got helpful (lucky ?) draws last year (cue howls from Higgins et al)

---

Why would i howl??

Shels did get very lucky .. We were on the verge of being seeded for a few years and it was always close but last season we got very lucky in that we drew the worst seeded team in QR1 and the 4th worst seed in QR2.. At the time we needed luck. No country will become seeded without a lucky draw at some stage.

This season Cork and Longford dont need luck in the draw. Have you seen the UNSEEDED teams they could face? It doesnt get easier in Europe. Shels will need the luck as there is still a couple of difficult trips in there for us but 75% sure we will get through.

On the other hand we drew a top SEED in QR3 in Deportivo and got a draw. Then we drew one of the best sides in Round 1 of the UEFA Cup in Lille but still managed to get another draw and 1 full coefficient point for ourselves..

I think for the progress of our league the Cup winner should get into the Intertoto but because its an FAI Cup I cant see it changing and im not sure how UEFA rule on this either? Ideal situation would be our top 3 league teams go into Europe.

Shels will most likely remain seeded if they qualify due to their club coefficient for the next 4 seasons. Most opponents will not have a club coefficient. This is normally enough for the 1st round of both competitions but not afterwards.

Agree re summer football resulting in "out of form" clubs in Europe however I think playing mid season rather than pre-season is a real advantage. On balance summer football is a plus here.

UEFA place for cup winners is the old Cup Winners Cup spot, so should remain imo.

I wouldn't swap the cup finals for finishing a couple of places up the league peader, but that's your own choice.

Incidentally, Boh who would've got the place if it was based on league are hardly doing fookin great themselves are they?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peadar

Not something you'll need to worry about because you'll never get near the cup or a top three finish.

---

well we have a far better Cup record than you lot so I'd say our chances of gaining European football through the Cup route is better than yours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Macy

Incidentally, Boh who would've got the place if it was based on league are hardly doing fookin great themselves are they?

---

The league as a whole seems to be in decline this season.
Shels are the only Dublin club looking dangerous with the two "Citys" leading the charge from beyond the pail.

Hopefully things will settle down a bit over the coming weeks, with some of the regional teams finding form.
The European games could come too soon for us if we're not playing against better opposition fairly soon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Partizan

well we have a far better Cup record than you lot

---

Sadly for you, the UEFA places are nominated, based on results in a given season not on your previous "record." :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

The European games could come too soon for us if we're not playing against better opposition fairly soon

---

What does that mean?

You are gonna blame your bad form on you not being able to play a high quality of opposition? Am I reading this wrong? I hope I am! :confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by higgins

You are gonna blame your bad form on you not being able to play a high quality of opposition?

---

What I mean is, it will be hard for us to be sharp if we're not getting a game from some of the other league teams.
We need teams to come out and play, not sit behind the ball.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peadar

What I mean is, it will be hard for us to be sharp if we're not getting a game from some of the other league teams.
We need teams to come out and play, not sit behind the ball.

---

You're right Peadar, from now on I propose all teams should have to have their game plans pre approved by Cork before they leave the dressing rooms. Any mention of defending or keeping it tight will be removed and all teams told to treat it like a challenge match. Apologies must also be issued for attempting to deviate from the Cork master plan. :rolleyes:

Did it ever occur to you that European opposition might sit behind the ball and look to score on the break as well? If a team sits back against you, then the onus is on you to break them down. Is it only me or did we already have this conversation about teams coming to Cork a few weeks ago?

Quote:

---

We need teams to come out and play, not sit behind the ball.

---

Oh dear :rolleyes:
That is exactly what I thought you meant

It really is a shame there are not more sides who you can test yourself against! Have you contacted Real Madrid to see if they would play you a few times before your European games? You know, a nice easy team who dont sit back that you can really show your class against :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by higgins

Why would i howl??

This season Cork and Longford dont need luck in the draw. Have you seen the UNSEEDED teams they could face? It doesnt get easier in Europe. Shels will need the luck as there is still a couple of difficult trips in there for us but 75% sure we will get through.

---

City aren't 100% certain of being seeded.

If the 2 Fair Play places to be drawn go to Northern European countries with higher co-efficients than us we won't be seeded. I thin k a good few of the countries in the draw will come in to that category(England /Scandanavia).

Longford will be the last seeded team though, I think because of the .5 of a point they got a few years back.

Fair play draw is 5th June.

Have UEFA confirmed that they will go with the same regional drawing format for the UEFA Cup preliminary round this season?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by higgins

It really is a shame there are not more sides who you can test yourself against!

---

We need teams to test us at a higher tempo.
It's grand for Shels because they can practise their kick 'n' rush, kick the opposition, style game every week in the eL. The teams who play football need more than picking up easy points against Rovers, Bohs and Pats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peadar

We need teams to test us at a higher tempo.
It's grand for Shels because they can practise their kick 'n' rush, kick the opposition, style game every week in the eL. The teams who play football need more than picking up easy points against Rovers, Bohs and Pats.

---

That is incredible alright, in any other league the other teams roll over and die because it'll help the other teams in Europe, not in this, I blame the FAI :rolleyes: If only Cork didn't play their pure total football, the most beautiful seen since the great Dutch team, they might have a chance of beating the likes of Drogheda, Bray and Portadown at home.

Awww, the jackeens are getting all upset about the hoof it up to the lanky forward so beloved of the midget......:D :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slash/ED

If only Cork didn't play their pure total football, the most beautiful seen since the great Dutch team.

---

Right, now we've established that there's an element of exaggeration at play here, can we get back to my original point!? Does anyone else think that too many teams aren't playing well so far this season?

In our case, since there's 3 teams (unless Bohs qualify):

A win in qualifying is worth 0.333 points. A draw is worth 0.166.
A win in the CL/UC proper is worth 0.666 and a draw is worth 0.333.

Basically we're aiming for 1.666. Shels are seeded and will face one of the following teams:

Dinamo Minsk - Bls - 1.347
Sliema Wanderers - Mlt - 0.989
Pyunik Yerevan - Arm - 0.989
SK Tirana - Alb - 0.879
Levadia Tallinn - Est - 0.824
Glentoran - Nir - 0.714
TNS - Wal - 0.604
Dudelange - Lux - 0.549
CL - Azb - 0.439
HB Torshavn - Far - 0.329
Kairat Almaty - Kaz - 0.220

Cork, Shels and Longford will realistically need to win 3 or 4 1st round matches between them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peadar

Right, now we've established that there's an element of exaggeration at play here, can we get back to my original point!? Does anyone else think that too many teams aren't playing well so far this season?

---

I do agree with you there, Longford espically have gone backwards badly.

Looking at that list with the right draw Shels should win both legs, but there's also some fairly tough teams there. Hopefully the draw goes Corks way too, anything Longford get for the co-efficent is a bonus.