Gaa 2015

God awful game in Thurles yesterday, with the referee botching things left, right and centre, but delighted to see Limerick win. I won't lie: Large part of it was also in seeing Clare lose. The difference between Ryan and Fitzgerald in interviews and at pitch side is so stark.

Can't see Limerick getting past Tipp in Munster another time, home advantage or not, but it's good to see them be way more competitive in the province over the last few years.

Clare's biggest problem is Davy Fitz.

Has a highly talented group of young fellas pulling and dragging and diving and doubling up instead of letting them hurl.

I hope any notions about him being a tactical mastermind have been put to bed aswell after yesterday. How he left O'Donnell on Lynch for two thirds of the game is beyond me. Absolutely roasted.

His post match interview once again belied a man with some fairly serious looking mental issues.

On Limerick it was very encouraging in that we've lost literally dozens of those kind of games down through the years, winning while playing badly is not something we do too often!

Plenty of room for improvement before the Tipp game. Nicky Quaid and Downes could be back, Hickey isn't fully fit yet I think, Hannon needs to involve himself more and Dowling needs to concentrate more.

Whatever about the Tipp game, quietly confident of another fairly long Summer.

Don't insult our Davy. I won't let anybody get away with that.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/c...es-334110.html

I particularly like Sean Kelly's suggestion for restructuring the football championship.

Its well worth trying this for a few years. The Sky will not fall and its not as if it cannot be adjusted if there are teething problems.

The problem with Kelly's suggestion is that no one will take the B competition seriously.

There needs to be a Senior and Intermediate All Ireland - and you either take your place in 1 or the other. Like every other GAA grading system. 1 up / 1 down. That is the only way to get counties to commit to it. Every County will be a potential 2 years from an All Ireland instead of 1.

Really disappointing stuff in Gaelic Grounds today. Limerick had a real lack of concentration at times, evident most whenever Tipp's short puckouts found a man with no one near him, which was just maddening to watch. Backline bad, full forward line suffocated. Seemed like Tipp had another gear they could just move into whenever they got in trouble, happened in each half. Capitulation in last 20 minutes was embarrassing.

Wexford suffering a bit worse today as well. I hope Galway can do something to stop Kilkenny, and Waterford to Tipp, because the AH is threatening to go back to that interminable Cats/Premier domination.

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

The problem with Kelly's suggestion is that no one will take the B competition seriously.

There needs to be a Senior and Intermediate All Ireland - and you either take your place in 1 or the other. Like every other GAA grading system. 1 up / 1 down. That is the only way to get counties to commit to it. Every County will be a potential 2 years from an All Ireland instead of 1.

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Seeding for the sake of seeding.

To be honest if we just had a bloody open draw and removed the Provincial Championships as then that will sort us. There's this obsession with the amount of games teams get in the AI Championships and all the prep etc etc.

32(ish) teams seeded from the leagues and then off ya pop.


EDIT:

Ages ago I had this huge Inter-county calendar and to be honest I honestly think it should be just pared back to a straight knock out.

Then I just decided to do this today:
League Div1 and 2 seeded in the first round on two sides of the draw and then just (Div1 double seeded so tehy can't meet another Div1 team until at least QF.)


So...

[But I can't paste a table from excel]

The league is a waste of time and money. The provincial pre-season's in football are a sham. Football generally is much more competitive than the hurling as a total competition.

I'd be happy to see the Provincial Championships retained in stead of the league, but to have no impact on the All-Ireland. The only realistic chance of glory for a Sligo, Leitrim, Limerick, Westmeath, Fermanagh etc.

Then the All-Ireland starts on the first of May, open draw, with a loser's round to augment the championship. Matches every fortnight. It isn't fair how the clubs are being killed off by the inter-county teams.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

The league is a waste of time and money. The provincial pre-season's in football are a sham. Football generally is much more competitive than the hurling as a total competition.

I'd be happy to see the Provincial Championships retained in stead of the league, but to have no impact on the All-Ireland. The only realistic chance of glory for a Sligo, Leitrim, Limerick, Westmeath, Fermanagh etc.

Then the All-Ireland starts on the first of May, open draw, with a loser's round to augment the championship. Matches every fortnight. It isn't fair how the clubs are being killed off by the inter-county teams.

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The Leagues are far from a waste of time and money. They give consistent competitive games over a sustained period like all Leagues should. The leagues as they stand are as good as they have ever been. I mean look at KIL and WTH relegation from D1 to D2 to D3 and then FER's rise with ARM to D2 as a result of competitive campaigns. They are a useful barometer and give a good properly competitive chance at blooding young players. I would not touch them. Maybe a calendar tweak but nothing more.

I would rid ourselves of the pre-season comps. They serve next to no purpose.

The provincial championships need to be removed from the All-Ireland series completely. It is absolutely disgraceful that DON in order to win Ulster have to play TYR>ARM>DER>MON wheras to win Munster KER get to beat TIP and CRK. Madness for them to be landing in the championship at the same point. Same goes for the dross we have to play in Leinster.

As regards the Championship, I would have it as an open draw after the first round. Your League placing should seed you initially on entry.

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The conmundrum is what to do with the Provincial championships. Clearly they hold more value for some over others (See WTH yday) but where would they go and what purpose would they serve?

Make them into a pre-season comp? Have them as the augmented championship for the losers as they get knocked out of the AI series.

One thing's for sure, the A and B side of the draw has to go.

given the 32 teams (in football anyway) would there be anything to be said for a seeded 8 group format, last 16, etc akin to the World Cup? The only downside would be the possible length of time to do it?

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Originally Posted by SkStu

given the 32 teams (in football anyway) would there be anything to be said for a seeded 8 group format, last 16, etc akin to the World Cup? The only downside would be the possible length of time to do it?

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It could be done but it would have way too many games and we would be sick of it pretty quickly. I don't mind teh format as it stands to be fair I just hate the lack of equality in the Provinces. I woudl just have an open draw seeded for the first round based on league position and leave it at that.

If a secondary tier is introduced, how would it be split? Just going by the state of the NFL for next year, dividing between Division 1/2 and 3/4, only two counties in Munster would be top tier. Three in Connacht. Three in Leinster. Eight in Ulster. So, would you have to have a top heavy tier?

Also, just realising that Kilkenny don't even enter a team in the football anymore. I know I shouldn't be surprised, but I guess I thought the GAA would have raised a stink over that?

There should be 2 tiers - 16 teams in each and the only way you should be able to progress from the bottom tier to the top tier is by winning it.

Just.like.every.other.GAA.competition.ever.

The problem is the provincial championships.
The provincial councils want to maintain the power they have. I don't see why the minor and u-21 competitions can't remain provincially based. Plus I don't see the hurling championship's being changed any time soon. Common sense has to prevail eventually.

By the way a 32 county open draw system would do very little for the weaker counties. 2 heavy defeats and they would be out - same as now.

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

If a secondary tier is introduced, how would it be split? Just going by the state of the NFL for next year, dividing between Division 1/2 and 3/4, only two counties in Munster would be top tier. Three in Connacht. Three in Leinster. Eight in Ulster. So, would you have to have a top heavy tier?

Also, just realising that Kilkenny don't even enter a team in the football anymore. I know I shouldn't be surprised, but I guess I thought the GAA would have raised a stink over that?

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If 8 of the top 16 teams in the country are from Uloster then so be it. It is what it is.

How would you get relegated so from the top tier where the seedings are based on the League but promotion is based on winning the Tier 2 Championship?

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

There should be 2 tiers - 16 teams in each and the only way you should be able to progress from the bottom tier to the top tier is by winning it.

Just.like.every.other.GAA.competition.ever.

The problem is the provincial championships.
The provincial councils want to maintain the power they have. I don't see why the minor and u-21 competitions can't remain provincially based. Plus I don't see the hurling championship's being changed any time soon. Common sense has to prevail eventually.

By the way a 32 county open draw system would do very little for the weaker counties. 2 heavy defeats and they would be out - same as now.

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I think the stumbling block of the provincials is the biggest issue. Until that's resolved then a 32- or 16-team championship would be merely pie-in-the-sky.

Now can anyone tell me how to upload an excel or table...

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

If 8 of the top 16 teams in the country are from Uloster then so be it. It is what it is.

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Sorry, for some reason I deleted a sentence without realising it. The point I was trying to make was how introducing a second tier would automatically make redundant the provincials because Ulster would be the only one left that wouldn't be one or two games long. If for no other reason, I think the powers that be in the provinces would resist because of that.

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

Sorry, for some reason I deleted a sentence without realising it. The point I was trying to make was how introducing a second tier would automatically make redundant the provincials because Ulster would be the only one left that wouldn't be one or two games long. If for no other reason, I think the powers that be in the provinces would resist because of that.

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You're still talking in terms of Provincials though with this 2 Tier 32 (2*16) team championship. Get rid of the Provinicials from the system altogether.

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It needs to be realised that the All-Ireland Championship is already underway. The Provinicial Championships run in parallel to it.
The further you get in your Provinicial Championship means you'll get into the All-Ireland Championship at a later stage.

If we start looking at it this way (the way it is) then people will realise what a crock of sh!t the Provinicials are.

Again, that the Munster Champion and Ulster Champion, despite the disparity of the Championships, both get entered at QF stage shows up just how insane it is.

Let the provincials act as a supplementary competition for those knocked out of the All-Ireland Series. Not the other way round.

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On your point about KK football, which is a disgrace, the GAA were unlikely to have any issues with it, especially given they have no issues with Cavan having no senior hurling team anymore.

I was at the game and saw some of what Jim talks about wrt to Cian O'Sullivan.
I'm just always fascinated by what the great analysts and coaches see when watching games. just how they pick up on nuance that we could only dream of. Very much like listening to Kenny Cunningham.

This is a great read.

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Originally Posted by Jim McGuinness, The Irish Times

The Westmeath –Meath game was, as they say in Donegal, just mental and terrific entertainment. But I left Croke Park with Dublin on my mind. I feel it was a very important day for the future direction of Gaelic football yesterday.
I was surprised there wasn’t more made of what Dublin did against Kildare. A subtle but significant change took place in Dublin’s approach and their football philosophy. They have made themselves more difficult to beat after a performance which contained so much to admire and which made me slightly fearful of what is to come.
The first thing that struck me was that MD Macauley and Rory O’Carroll were listed among the substitutes but started the game, which was a new departure for Dublin. They tend not to play games like that and it suggested to me that they felt this was an important game for them. It looked like they went with their strongest 15. In the taxi on the way to Croke Park, I was excited to see what might be different since we played them last August.
My gut feeling was that I would see the same system from all four teams. Dublin played man-to-man with a sweeper dropping back in some national league games and as it turned out, Meath, Kildare and Westmeath replicated that.
Cover space
For Dublin, Cian O’Sullivan was the sweeper dropping back to cover space in front of the Kildare full forward line. Nothing radical in that. But it was the Dublin defensive system that fascinated me. They had spoken a lot about core values and man to man defence and the principles of Dublin football. But there has been a definite paradigm shift which I feel will make them very hard to beat.
So Dublin went man to man with O’Sullivan sweeping – and occasionally Jack McCaffrey. But the interesting thing was that when Kildare attacked them, they left their men and stepped off them and drifted from that into protecting the D, like an arc which is a zonal system. If the ball was pushed out to the wing, they sometimes stepped up again and went man to man. The other thing they were doing defensively is they were passing players on. If someone ran across the D and, say, the ball was on the left wing, they would pass that player on and keep the pressure on the ball in a zone format.
So in doing that, they have taken control back again. We had control last year when we played them because we could take the Dublin players where we wanted them. Because they stayed man to man we could dictate their movement.
I remember Paddy McGrath asking: ‘what if that doesn’t happen’. But we were 100 per cent sure they would go man-to-man on us. So this year Dublin have said: we are good enough to go man to man in the front and middle thirds of the pitch. But we are not going to concede the last third and allow teams to go straight down the middle. So they are playing smart and know when to drop off their man and when to defend the central area.
I recalled hearing they had spent some time in the winter working with Mark Ingle, the basketball coach. That was interesting because they looked very fluid against Kildare, as if they have a very high level of understanding of what they are doing. I feel they have a lot of work done on it. So here is the significant thing: if they aren’t giving up the middle and their mantra is not to concede goals, what do you do? Donegal’s performance against Dublin was one of the best we delivered in my time in charge and we still could only hold them to 0-16. So chances are you will have to score at least 0-17 to beat them – and that is not allowing for their potency in scoring goals.
Defensive shape
The other significant thing in terms of their defensive shape was that on the opposition kick-out they pushed everyone up except for O’Sullivan and their full back line. So you had 11 Dublin players spread out inside the Kildare half. Some were man marking, some were zonal/splitting and they forced Kildare to kick long which worked really well for them. But once the game was done and dusted on the scoreboard, they then pushed everybody up to conceal Cian O’Sullivan’s role. That tells me that we can be guaranteed Dublin’s central tenet this summer is they will not give up the middle.
They are phenomenal on the transition. Their pace and power and movement is just incredible and they get from one end of the pitch to the other so quickly. I think three Dublin goals came off Stephen Cluxton’s kick out. Cluxton creates a quandary for all teams. If you try to beat Dublin by pushing up, Cluxton has radar-like precision and is able to cause major damage by going over the top. But if you give them the kick out, it is inviting an onslaught. You end up handing them 40 possessions in a match. It is difficult to see how a team can do that and still concede less than 17 points because Dublin’s conversion rate is so high.
So that philosophical shift they have made – and the defensive adjustment they have made – are massive changes. The other thing is – bad news for all full backs – they appear to have become even better inside. They had three men inside – rotating between Dean Rock, Bernard Brogan and Kevin McManamon.
Normally two full forwards would play inside the large square and the other on the D in a conventional triangle. But they were stretched 50 metres apart and the other near the ‘45’. That creates a horrible problem for the sweeper. So where does he position himself? He cannot cover that ground. Even with a double sweeper, the space is incredible. Then what impressed me was the aggression and length of the runs made by the inside men. Forty metre sprints to win the ball and winning the ball at full speed: the Dubs were doing this again and again. That ability to win the ball at full speed is very difficult to coach – and to defend against.
Then you had Ciarán Kilkenny, Paul Flynn and Diarmuid Connolly coming from deep. They fist the ball inside a lot, which increases the pass-completion percentage. Then their ability to kick long-range points comes into it. I am listing all these things as an example of the number of questions they are now asking. They have retained all the threats they carried last year but they have become much more difficult to break down.
The scary thing is I felt they were flicking between second and third gear and it made me feel apprehensive for my own county and for all other counties. Because if they are just in third gear and have all these new processes in place: whenever they run out the tunnel with the focus and the attitude and the fire in their belly to play a top team and if they then hit fifth gear, well, that force that could be very hard to hold. The other aspect of their play that is significant is that all their goals and many of their points reflected a new-found unselfishness.
I don’t believe that was there previously in other years. And then – finally – there is the matter of their bench. Alan Brogan, Michael Fitzsimons, Paddy Andrews, James McCarthy; All-Ireland-winning players coming onto the field of play. The overall age profile is probably mid-20s and they have a group of U-21 All-Ireland winners waiting just to get into the squad.
So Dublin have reflected and have done a huge amount of work. They have created a new system for themselves. They put that in motion yesterday.
This has wider repercussions for the game. Most teams take their lead from the top teams – and Dublin are the most frequently imitated. So I think the other teams in Leinster will bite the bullet and go down this road now also. Dublin have been absolutely dominant in Leinster because it was man to man all over the pitch and other counties followed suit. If Dublin have bitten the bullet, I think Mayo may do the same and then perhaps the other Connacht teams will follow that. Most managers take their lead from the top teams.
I have a problem with that. Managers need to be more original and come up with their own strategies. Now Dublin are moving to this system and people will copy that. The challenge is not to copy them but to come up with a system to beat them.
Which could be easier said than done. For me, there are not many boxes left to tick for Dublin going on Sunday’s performance. They have made themselves much more difficult to beat.
New system
I am not saying Dublin are invincible. But I am honestly not sure right now how they can be beaten with what they can bring to the table. What we did last year clearly won’t work this time around.
They have taken zero away from their strategy but have devised a new system. They looked more like a team on Sunday too. You could see the communication and the passing on and that they were working in concert. You can argue there was a gulf in standard on Sunday. But what could Kildare have done differently? How do you take that athleticism on? How do you stop Cluxton’s precision? How do you break them down? The list of questions they pose for all teams is very, very long now.
Dublin cast a very long shadow before the championship started but, at times on Sunday, it looked more like an eclipse.

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http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gael...tion-1.2267131

Is today the day Cork finally get their act together?

They better.

So far so good.

Act firmly together - Pairc Ui Franc out of commission so back to Killarney on the 18th.

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

Act firmly together - Pairc Ui Franc out of commission so back to Killarney on the 18th.

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Still livid over that penalty.

On so many ocassions yesterday Kerry were gift either handyones from bad refereeing or from Cork naivety.

That 45 at the end from Cork was clear example of them not knowing what to do in such a situation.

Dublin will not be worried about this Kerry side. They are poor and one-dimensional.

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Dublin will not be worried about this Kerry side. They are poor and one-dimensional.

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Well Kerry are playing proper football at the moment in a competitive environment, ironing out strengths and weaknesses etc while Dublin are playing in the GAA equivalent of the Scottish Premiership.

Edit - there is a 50% chance the loser of the Munster final will play Dublin in the All Ireland QF

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

Well Kerry are playing proper football at the moment in a competitive environment, ironing out strengths and weaknesses etc while Dublin are playing in the GAA equivalent of the Scottish Premiership.

Edit - there is a 50% chance the loser of the Munster final will play Dublin in the All Ireland QF

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Competitive environment? They play Cork annually after beating one of Tipp, Limerick, Clare or Waterford. That's the height of the competitive environment.

If what Kerry played yesterday was proper football we may as well give up. It was shoddy at best. Rusty may be more apt.

I was absolutely stunned by how easily Cork got on top of MF in the second half. They were brilliant. Kerry have huge problems at FB as well and they ran out of ideas a few times when they tried to go out wide.

When in doubt hoof it long and if Cork, didn't get so caught up about Donaghy and left only one man on him Kerrigan wouldn't have been out in the position he was in to get that Black Card.

The Cork performance overall reminded me how we were in the SF in 2010. Cork were there for the taking on that day and we froze and played into their hands.

Likewise the Leesiders did the same yesterday. The 45 at the end was a case-in-point.

All-in-all Kerry got awayw ith and Cork will rue the missed opportunity.

And sure, it's in Killarney again. Imagine that. Something wrong with Semple or even the Gaelic Grounds?

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Competitive environment? They play Cork annually after beating one of Tipp, Limerick, Clare or Waterford. That's the height of the competitive environment.

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They will have played 2 games against top opposition in the championship by Saturday week. 2 more than Dublin was all I was saying. We all know the provincial system is gah. But it is especially difficult for Dublin at present who don't get a decent game until the AI QF at the earliest. What if Dub have to play Kerry in an AIQF - surely the lack of competition in Leineter will seriously hurt them. (They may overcome that anyway - but its not ideal)

And another thing Tipp are better than Longford and Kildare at the moment also . An away game against Tipp was a good test for Kerry. If the Dubs took to the road it might actually help them now.

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

I was absolutely stunned by how easily Cork got on top of MF in the second half. They were brilliant. Kerry have huge problems at FB as well and they ran out of ideas a few times when they tried to go out wide.
?

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Cork's midfield duo of O'Connor / Gould is as good as anyone's in fairness. Gould's problem is he can't kick a score but he is a good fielder and a very physical presence, and now that the pressure of getting scores is gone from him then he has improved a bit. O'Connor has come out of retirement to replace Aidan Walsh who has gone hurling. No doubt we needed him back as Walsh left a big hole.

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

The Cork performance overall reminded me how we were in the SF in 2010. Cork were there for the taking on that day and we froze and played into their hands.

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You would really want to get over that now. You are always bringing it up :)

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

And sure, it's in Killarney again. Imagine that. Something wrong with Semple or even the Gaelic Grounds?

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Our own fault for not having a ground suitable in what is supposed to be a home and away agreement - no point in dragging everyone to Semple or Limerick. Killarney is a shorter drive - especially for the West Cork supporters where football is most popular.

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

They will have played 2 games against top opposition in the championship by Saturday week. 2 more than Dublin was all I was saying. We all know the provincial system is gah. But it is especially difficult for Dublin at present who don't get a decent game until the AI QF at the earliest. What if Dub have to play Kerry in an AIQF - surely the lack of competition in Leineter will seriously hurt them. (They may overcome that anyway - but its not ideal)

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We'll overcome that.

I can't see it happening.

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And another thing Tipp are better than Longford and Kildare at the moment also . An away game against Tipp was a good test for Kerry. If the Dubs took to the road it might actually help them now.

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That they may be. But they are so far behind the "Top-4" that it's moot really.

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Cork's midfield duo of O'Connor / Gould is as good as anyone's in fairness.

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That they are. When they play. Remember the League final?

I just couldn't believe just how easy they had it in the centre of the park. Magnificent.

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Gould's problem is he can't kick a score but he is a good fielder and a very physical presence, and now that the pressure of getting scores is gone from him then he has improved a bit. O'Connor has come out of retirement to replace Aidan Walsh who has gone hurling. No doubt we needed him back as Walsh left a big hole.

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Aren't you glad he is?

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You would really want to get over that now. You are always bringing it up :)

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I'll never get over it.

But it was a defining moment in the development of this Dublin team.

I hope ye hop off them next day out. I fear the worst. But here's hoping the refereeing is actually up to scratch next time out.

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Our own fault for not having a ground suitable in what is supposed to be a home and away agreement - no point in dragging everyone to Semple or Limerick. Killarney is a shorter drive - especially for the West Cork supporters where football is most popular.

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As it may be. But it's an absolute schtones to be going back to Killarney.

I don't know if anyone noticed on The Sunday Game, but there was a dispute over one of the four goals Limerick scored against Westmeath in the hurling qualifiers. Paul Brown got a green flag just after the second half started, but the angle shown on The Sunday Game appeared to show the ball had gone wide, with the ref/umpires fooled by loose netting. Cue annoyance from Donal Og and company, and many others. It seemed to be a pretty minor thing - Limerick were winning at the time, went on to win by 12 points and while they didn't play that great I wouldn't say I was ever worried they would lose.

But according to Henry Martin on Twitter, Limerick GAA "allegedly" offered Westmeath the opportunity to replay the game, which Westmeath declined. I'm not sure about that, but one might remember the furore over that minor semi-final and the Hawk-Eye failure. Maybe, "allegedly", Limerick decided to walk the walk (though one wonders if Kilkenny would have been offered one).

But then it turns out, thanks to a new camera angle, that the goal was legitimate after all: http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/g...ct-341359.html

Just one of those interesting little sideshows in GAA season, but shows how it is sometimes too easy - and I fully admit to being guilty of it sometimes - to jump on the officials.

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Still livid over that penalty.

On so many ocassions yesterday Kerry were gift either handyones from bad refereeing or from Cork naivety.

That 45 at the end from Cork was clear example of them not knowing what to do in such a situation.

Dublin will not be worried about this Kerry side. They are poor and one-dimensional.

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Dublin weren't worried about Kerry last year either, that turned out well.

Kerry players are not going well. Last year's Sam was a bonus. We have a group of defenders still learning the ropes while the old ones are phased out. I would not be surprised to see Marc Se dropped for Saturday. Paul Murphy coming back will be a bonus.
At this moment in time, it's hard to say whether Kerry are rusty, playing at a level they are at, or below the level they are at. One thing is sure, they are not playing above themselves.

Brendan Kealy is a disaster in goals, he's an accident waiting to happen, and has always been. He never emits a strong presence, because he isn't one. Kelly is by far the better goalkeeper. Peter Crowley needs to impose himself more, as he did from the Munster final on last season. I think Fitz will have realised that the link between CB, Midfield and HF just did not work. There isn't enough pace between Crowley, Sheehan, Moran, Walsh and Buckley. I'd have Walsh in the side every day of the week, but so too would I have Anthony Maher. He's as good a midfielder around as there is, and is very much the sitter, even though he has plenty of scores in his locker.
I'd like to see something a little different. Whether it's Gooch playing out and roving, or having a bit of pace in the side I don't know. I think I'd like to see Paul Geaney inside with Donaghy, Gooch and James a little further out, and Walsh and possibly Sheehan doing the donkey work. I'd drop Buckley and have Moran and Maher fielding.
One thing that I know has come up a bit, is why Galvin and Walsh aren't seeing game time, then why are they in the squad.

Bonnie, your hatred of Kerry is as great as my disgust at the Dubs.

Ulster can produce handy draws too. Antrim Cavan and generally Fermanagh have been handy numbers and have been on the same side of the draw as the Ulster champions numerous times in the past decade. Even Derry have been poor. The flipside obviously is that Monaghan Tyrone Armagh and Donegal can all face each other too.
In Munster we could conceivably face Limerick away, Tipp away and then Cork to win. That's no cake walk, and it would be tougher than many of the matches Dublin would face. Similar in Connacht, in 12 Mayo beat Leitrim and Sligo; two years previous Roscommon beat Sligo and Leitrim.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Dublin weren't worried about Kerry last year either, that turned out well.

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Well, but for a Connolly miscue we might have been in the AIF. It happens. Better team won that day out. Now as for the other semi...

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Kerry players are not going well. Last year's Sam was a bonus. We have a group of defenders still learning the ropes while the old ones are phased out. I would not be surprised to see Marc Se dropped for Saturday. Paul Murphy coming back will be a bonus.
At this moment in time, it's hard to say whether Kerry are rusty, playing at a level they are at, or below the level they are at. One thing is sure, they are not playing above themselves.

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I would have called it rusty until I saw just how utterly without a plan they were against Cork. But for a potshot at the end...

Games turn on tiny margins and I had expected that the typical Cork bubble would have been burst when Donaghy got on the end of that goal.
That Cork stayed above water was something. When the "penalty" happened I again thought that that would break Cork. It didn't.

Kerry usually rally when they get breaks like that. It was odd.

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Brendan Kealy is a disaster in goals, he's an accident waiting to happen, and has always been. He never emits a strong presence, because he isn't one.

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He was and has been a complete mess. Some of the goals that are scored against him are just bizarre. Always commits early to the most strange of attacks. How he hasn't been chucked at this stage I don't know.

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Kelly is by far the better goalkeeper. Peter Crowley needs to impose himself more, as he did from the Munster final on last season. I think Fitz will have realised that the link between CB, Midfield and HF just did not work. There isn't enough pace between Crowley, Sheehan, Moran, Walsh and Buckley. I'd have Walsh in the side every day of the week, but so too would I have Anthony Maher. He's as good a midfielder around as there is, and is very much the sitter, even though he has plenty of scores in his locker.

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I have never liked Sheehan. I think it's his moany looking face, but to be honest he was one of the shining lights the last day.

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I'd like to see something a little different. Whether it's Gooch playing out and roving, or having a bit of pace in the side I don't know. I think I'd like to see Paul Geaney inside with Donaghy, Gooch and James a little further out, and Walsh and possibly Sheehan doing the donkey work. I'd drop Buckley and have Moran and Maher fielding.

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I don't think Gooch can play that anymore. He was anonymous for most of the period he was on.
We'll put it fdown to lack of match fitness.

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One thing that I know has come up a bit, is why Galvin and Walsh aren't seeing game time, then why are they in the squad.

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Because it was always a case that players presence alone can buck up a team? That's the Kerry way.

Didn't Cooper tog out last September despite having almost no chance of playing. If it is the case that someof that squad need the likes of Galvin or Walsh to raise their games then you'd have to worry.

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Bonnie, your hatred of Kerry is as great as my disgust at the Dubs.

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My hatred of Kerry outweighs any rational thought and my love for my own county. This has been a tough post to remian calm in. :)

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Ulster can produce handy draws too. Antrim Cavan and generally Fermanagh have been handy numbers and have been on the same side of the draw as the Ulster champions numerous times in the past decade. Even Derry have been poor. The flipside obviously is that Monaghan Tyrone Armagh and Donegal can all face each other too.

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Ulster can indeed produce handy draws. But the intensity and local rivalry seems to be more highly tuned in almost every game. Plus you can get preliminary rounds that have the Ulster Champions in it. There's simply no comparing Ulster with the other 3 imho.

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In Munster we could conceivably face Limerick away, Tipp away and then Cork to win. That's no cake walk, and it would be tougher than many of the matches Dublin would face. Similar in Connacht, in 12 Mayo beat Leitrim and Sligo; two years previous Roscommon beat Sligo and Leitrim.

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It's not conceivable. Cork and Kerry can't meet until the final and both only play 1 game to get there as they have byes into the SF.

I despise the provincials as a way to get into the All-Ireland Series. But alas.


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Anyway... Cork, Mayo, Donegal in the other 3 provs.
And of the other confirmed fixtures: Derry, "Kerry", Tyrone, Fermanagh

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Ulster can produce handy draws too. Antrim Cavan and generally Fermanagh have been handy numbers and have been on the same side of the draw as the Ulster champions numerous times in the past decade. Even Derry have been poor. The flipside obviously is that Monaghan Tyrone Armagh and Donegal can all face each other too.
In Munster we could conceivably face Limerick away, Tipp away and then Cork to win. That's no cake walk, and it would be tougher than many of the matches Dublin would face. Similar in Connacht, in 12 Mayo beat Leitrim and Sligo; two years previous Roscommon beat Sligo and Leitrim.

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Antrim, Cavan or Fermanagh would easily dispatch of either Limerick or Tipp in my opinion. There's no really weak side in Ulster and anyone can beat anyone up there.

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Antrim, Cavan or Fermanagh would easily dispatch of either Limerick or Tipp in my opinion. There's no really weak side in Ulster and anyone can beat anyone up there.

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I wouldn't agree on the Tipp comment.

They would certainly hold their own against Cavan or Down and on a good day would have the beating of them. In fact with Down, chances are you wouldn't need a good day.
Antrim wouldn't have a hope tbh.

Fermanagh's cause is being helped by having an absolute belter of a manager in charge. And would take them.

I am raging that Tipp got Tyrone as I would have likened to have seen Tipp in a QF.

Did Cork realise that there was a lot more on the line than a Munster title? Kerry on the nice side of the draw.

Still nothing I saw over the weekend would unduly worry me from a Dublin pov. A Munster winning Cork side perhaps but they'll be delated now. Kerry's back line are a shambles and as you said Kingdom, Kealy again showing how he's a lucky man to still be a keeper in that team.

Deegan was also terrible. Consistently inconsistent. Sheehan should have been off for a black card after about 15min. But let it slide for no apparent reason. And there were loads of decisions not made on both sides. Awful performance. The Shehan one sticks out mostly because of the influence he had on the game.

Without Sheehan, Kerry's goose would have been cooked. Donaghy was well-marshalled and but for a black card the last day out, we would have seen more of the same.

Did anyone else see Gooch throwing a punch? I thought he was mostly ineffectual when he came on and as for JOD... still don't get it.

Kerry good for the win on balance but they really need to step it up. Conor McManus and Dessie Mone would lap that up all day.

Alan O'connor is a beast. Imagine if we had him on the Dublin panel. Le sigh.

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Monaghan just about scraped over the line. Donegal's ineffectual shooting at the start of teh second half probably cost them the game but I think Monaghan could have stepped it up a notch.

There's a steel in this Monghan team that's been missing over the years. They'll put it up to anyone.

Donegal looked knackered. There's a malaise in the team that seems to have gotten worse since the Tyrone game.

Frank McGlynn though was immense. There's a silver lining there for them. All is not lost and they'll have the beating of Galway next day out.

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What can we say about Connacht? As afacile as facile victories go but to conced 2-11 to that Sligo side is awful.

Some good overall performances but hard to really know.

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Did Cork realise that there was a lot more on the line than a Munster title? Kerry on the nice side of the draw.

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So is it Dublin/Kildare/Cork vs Mayo/Donegal/Another & Kerry/Wstmth/Fermanagh vs Monaghan/Sligo/Another? I'll take that.

I don't think that was part of it at all. The goal aside they didn't really trouble Kerry too much. They didn't get the ball enough to Colm O'Neill who was so far ahead of Marc Sé, as he was last week, it wasn't funny. Kerrigan too, an exceptional player, yet Cork misused him badly.

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Still nothing I saw over the weekend would unduly worry me from a Dublin pov. A Munster winning Cork side perhaps but they'll be delated now

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I think we all could say that about every team left in the Championship. Dublin and probably Mayo are that bit ahead of everyone else at this stage, yet no-one really can tell what will happen with Dublin when the pressure is on, because we haven't seen it so far. I think Cork will shade Kildare this weekend, although I think Jason Ryan with Wexford was tactically very good, and will have a plan for Cork. Still though, they should have too much.

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Kerry's back line are a shambles and as you said Kingdom, Kealy again showing how he's a lucky man to still be a keeper in that team.

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I think that is extremely unfair. Kerry's backline is rotational for the past 18 months to 2 years. There are 2/3 mainstays and then the remainder are picked based on the opposition.
Personally speaking I think Paul Murphy is one of the best defenders in the country, and he showed it on Saturday. He was exceptional. Aidan O'Mahony is also an extremely good defender, and normally an exceptional distributor of the ball, so it was ironic that a very sloppy pass from him led directly to the Cork goal. Shane Enright came of age on Saturday too. He's been so-so since coming onto the scene, a good game followed by a horror show, but he man-marked Brian Hurley (who has been a nememsis of Kerry underage) completely out of the game. He has set himself a standard that he needs to keep reaching.



Kealy though.....grrrrrrrraghagshd is probably the best way I have of describing what I feel towards him. He's going to cost us a high-profile game sooner or later. I still don't know if Brian Kelly is injured or dropped, but after his year last year I find it hard to believe he's dropped!

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Deegan was also terrible. Consistently inconsistent. Sheehan should have been off for a black card after about 15min. But let it slide for no apparent reason. And there were loads of decisions not made on both sides. Awful performance. The Shehan one sticks out mostly because of the influence he had on the game.

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I think your bias again' us is blinding you. Deegan was utter gash. But he was gash for both sides, and I thought the Kerry forwards got a far rougher ride from him, than the Cork backs did.
Also it must be said, and this isn't directed at you, the commentating on the replay was astoundingly bad. Horrific, especially from Martin Carney who usually is very accurate. There were a number of incidents that they called wrong. The worst was the Donaghy free late in the second half that was awarded on the 21yd line, but the play didn't stop till the ball was at the touchline. The free was given because Donaghy was being held from running, yet Bill and Ben thought it was for a tackle on the touchline. This was replicated throughout the game, and it does cloud things insufferably when that happens.
The Sheehan incident you refer to was the right call (assuming it was the "head"-high challenge) as the Cork guy was so much smaller than Sheehan and was dipping down anyway as the tackle was being made. But it was a close call. Alan O'Connor should have seen the line before half-time, that cannot be denied I feel.

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Without Sheehan, Kerry's goose would have been cooked. Donaghy was well-marshalled and but for a black card the last day out, we would have seen more of the same.

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It wouldn't. It really wouldn't. Sheehan's influence was off the ground. Anthony Maher was the player who lorded midfield, as the work he gets done is incredible. He isn't as explosive as MDMA, and I think that's one of the reasons he is so underrated. He is Seamus Scanlon (another gem that wasn't appreciated) but with better foot-passing.

Donaghy is going to be a problem. The ball going in to him was poor, and you could make allowances for the conditions, but I think that just masks things. Paul Geaney is the go-to-man in the Kerry full-forward line, and I reckon we're going to see Tommy Walsh in Croke Park, in the stead of Donaghy.

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Did anyone else see Gooch throwing a punch?

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Yep, but I also saw him get stamped on, so c'est la vie. And I'd say that for any other footballer. Gooch looks like a guy who doesn't fully trust his knees. I wonder will it be the end of him..... I'm surprised you didn't mention Donaghy grabbing one of the O'Driscolls by the throat repeatedly for the guts of a minute front and centre on camera.

James O'D was nowhere near MOTM on Sat, but his movement, and distribution particularily in the second half were very good. He frees up the space that Walsh and Geaney can exploit.

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Kerry good for the win on balance but they really need to step it up. Conor McManus and Dessie Mone would lap that up all day.

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I can tell you now what's going to happen. Kerry are going to put Shane Enright on Conor McManus.

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Alan O'connor is a beast. Imagine if we had him on the Dublin panel. Le sigh.

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Alan O'Connor was beyond crap on Saturday, and his number was up from about the 20 minute mark. He tried to crucify O'Mahony in the face with a shoulder, O'Mahony swerved and O'Connor ended up on his keester. From that moment on he was a busted flush bar a spurt before half-time. And as I said earlier he should have seen the line for a second yellow.

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Monaghan just about scraped over the line. Donegal's ineffectual shooting at the start of teh second half probably cost them the game but I think Monaghan could have stepped it up a notch.

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There's a steel in this Monghan team that's been missing over the years. They'll put it up to anyone.

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I think that is inaccurate. Monaghan gave Kerry some really tough games in Croker in 08/09 and that was a tough team. Unless you mean resolve? And again I think they'll be concerned by how much they flagged towards the end of the match yesterday. You could make the argument that Donegal lost, as much as monaghan won. I wouldn't be overly concerned facing up to Monaghan, because I think we've enough steel ourselves to deal with the physical battle, and enough game-changers and good shooters from midfield up to deal with a defensive outfit.

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Donegal looked knackered. There's a malaise in the team that seems to have gotten worse since the Tyrone game.

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Never write those whoers off.

Kerry's team the next day will look something like this:

--------------Kealy (sigh)---------------

An Other --- An Other --- Shane Enright

An Other --- Aidan O'M --- Paul Murphy

----- Anthony Maher David Moran/Bryan Sheehan ---

Paul Galvin --- Bryan Sheehan/Gooch --- Donn. Walsh---

Paul Geaney -- Tommy Walsh/Donaghy --- James OD.-----

These are Kerry's available defenders (more or less)
Paul Murphy, Aidan O'Mahony, Shane Enright, Killian Young, Peter Crowley, Fionn Fitzgerald, Marc Sé, Pa Kilkenny, Johnny Lyne, Mark Griffin

The consensus is that fionn fitz is too lightweight for the bigger men, Marc Sé is getting too far down the road, and that Griffin isn't up to scratch. I'd go along with mostly.
It worries me that Crowley is off form, as he's a big bastid, and will be crucial in Kerry turning over Dublin, Donegal or Mayo. He'd be ideal to mark Aidan O'Se if they meet.
Murphy has turned into an exceptional defender, and Enright is going that way. O'Mahony could be crucial in the middle, as it is still a weak area. Johnny Lyne is becoming an important player in terms of defenders being able to break up the pitch, but still needs time to develop. Kilkenny hasn't had much of a chance as of yet but was very reliable last year when needed. I think there are enough big men, strong men, skillful defenders and good man-markers in that list. So we'll see.

As things stand I'd be content with where Kerry are, as long as the rise of standards that has always come with going to Croke Park materialises.

I'll be interested to see where do Galvin, Tommy Walsh, and Jack Sherwood fit into the masterplan. Sherwood has been coming for a while, and is well thought of down home. Even though there's an all-ireland on the line, I'd still consider last year a bonus and this year the transition year, with next year the year everything falls into place.

Cork to beat Dublin.

I was surprised James O'Donoghue managed to stay upright while they presented him with MOTM.

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

I was surprised James O'Donoghue managed to stay upright while they presented him with MOTM.

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Indeed. Paul Murphy, Shane Enright or Aidan O'Mahony were all very good. Anthony Maher too.

Next Saturday - Cork and Fermanagh wins i think!

Looking for a "2nd" GAA county to support for the rest of the summer, dual of course. Looking for suggestions.

Their football manager must have some idea what the hell he is doing.
Their hurling manager must have some hope in a line of excellent u-18 and u-21 teams.

Thank God the "soccer" (this thread only) team don't roll over and get their bellies tickled when playing a top team. (Europe aside I meant)

Could also so with a strong drink.

Hop across the border son, we've a multitude of teams you can support. Minor, Junior, Senior, Football Hurling. we're an equal opportunities supporter....

Joking aside, very surprised to see Kildare slay Cork. Jason Ryan looked like a man on a mission at the end, and while I don't think they'll take us up in Croker, I think this could be a result that pushes Kildare on a notch next season.

Also, Maurice Shanahan is a one player I cannot wait to see Kilkenny hoof lumps into.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

So is it Dublin/Kildare/Cork vs Mayo/Donegal/Another & Kerry/Wstmth/Fermanagh vs Monaghan/Sligo/Another? I'll take that.

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It should have been. Kildare ruined that buzz.

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I don't think that was part of it at all. The goal aside they didn't really trouble Kerry too much. They didn't get the ball enough to Colm O'Neill who was so far ahead of Marc Sé, as he was last week, it wasn't funny. Kerrigan too, an exceptional player, yet Cork misused him badly.

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A week out and a re-watching has tempered my bias. You were right about Kerrigan being misused. But I would say it was the complete lack of coherence around him that forced him to take on so much responsibility that he couldn't do his job properly. Compare him to the Kerrigan in the first game.

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I think we all could say that about every team left in the Championship. Dublin and probably Mayo are that bit ahead of everyone else at this stage, yet no-one really can tell what will happen with Dublin when the pressure is on, because we haven't seen it so far. I think Cork will shade Kildare this weekend, although I think Jason Ryan with Wexford was tactically very good, and will have a plan for Cork. Still though, they should have too much.

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I had Cork all week to get over Kildare. But I had a nagging suspicion that Cork would do a Cork and fall flat and roll-over. Did not see the manner of that defeat coming. They made Kildare look like us against Kildare!

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I think that is extremely unfair. Kerry's backline is rotational for the past 18 months to 2 years. There are 2/3 mainstays and then the remainder are picked based on the opposition.

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YOu can call it rotational but there's weakness there and a decent forward line on song will punish it. Plus we both agree on your keeper problem.

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Personally speaking I think Paul Murphy is one of the best defenders in the country, and he showed it on Saturday. He was exceptional. Aidan O'Mahony is also an extremely good defender, and normally an exceptional distributor of the ball, so it was ironic that a very sloppy pass from him led directly to the Cork goal. Shane Enright came of age on Saturday too. He's been so-so since coming onto the scene, a good game followed by a horror show, but he man-marked Brian Hurley (who has been a nememsis of Kerry underage) completely out of the game. He has set himself a standard that he needs to keep reaching.

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I didn't think Aidan O'M was up to much earlier on in the day to be honest and again if Cork hadn't turned up like they did then he might have ended up in more trouble. Enright ha da great game. Give ya that. :P

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Kealy though.....grrrrrrrraghagshd is probably the best way I have of describing what I feel towards him. He's going to cost us a high-profile game sooner or later. I still don't know if Brian Kelly is injured or dropped, but after his year last year I find it hard to believe he's dropped!

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What more can you say.

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I think your bias again' us is blinding you. Deegan was utter gash. But he was gash for both sides, and I thought the Kerry forwards got a far rougher ride from him, than the Cork backs did.

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It usually does blind me. But in all honesty ye tend to get the 50/50 decisons most days. But mother of god Deegan was horrific. Should be no where near a Championship game.

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Also it must be said, and this isn't directed at you, the commentating on the replay was astoundingly bad. Horrific, especially from Martin Carney who usually is very accurate.

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Can't say I agree with that. Carney is a spoofer of the highest order. He's no Tommy Carr though. RTÉ commentary is awful. Abslutely awful.

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There were a number of incidents that they called wrong. The worst was the Donaghy free late in the second half that was awarded on the 21yd line, but the play didn't stop till the ball was at the touchline.

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I remember that well and I missed the original incident so I assumed it was a typical Deegan fupp-up. The replay showed otherwise.

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The free was given because Donaghy was being held from running, yet Bill and Ben thought it was for a tackle on the touchline. This was replicated throughout the game, and it does cloud things insufferably when that happens.

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Yup.

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The Sheehan incident you refer to was the right call (assuming it was the "head"-high challenge) as the Cork guy was so much smaller than Sheehan and was dipping down anyway as the tackle was being made. But it was a close call.

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That's always an excuse for the taller man. And again not complaining to you. But the taller fella is always going to be that height and the likes of say Donaghy has to learn how to control his height and play fair and safely and not complain that the guy he was tackling is too small.

I know it's a different sport completely and I would love some of the rules transferred to hurling, but in ice hockey, the high-sticking infraction incurs a penalty regardless of intent. The player is always in control of his own stick and should be aware of potential injuries. Likewise in hurling with a camán, multiple incidents yesterday that were "accidental" and allowed go. Too dangerous.

In a football context the taller man should be able to control his body to not allow head-high tackles or engagement regardless of the size of teh opponent.

Admittedly, it could be considered harsh in the Sheehan incident. But for me that was a dangerous play, regardless of intent.

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Alan O'Connor should have seen the line before half-time, that cannot be denied I feel.

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I have a vague recollection of some incident... remind me. AgainI was too hepped up to give ye any credit.

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It wouldn't. It really wouldn't. Sheehan's influence was off the ground. Anthony Maher was the player who lorded midfield, as the work he gets done is incredible. He isn't as explosive as MDMA, and I think that's one of the reasons he is so underrated. He is Seamus Scanlon (another gem that wasn't appreciated) but with better foot-passing.

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Would be nice if MDMA was back on song for next weeks ding-dong.

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Donaghy is going to be a problem. The ball going in to him was poor, and you could make allowances for the conditions, but I think that just masks things.

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It was poor. But Cork had him covered in both games. He's completely ineffectual without ball. I would be dropping him against Kildare.

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Paul Geaney is the go-to-man in the Kerry full-forward line, and I reckon we're going to see Tommy Walsh in Croke Park, in the stead of Donaghy.

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You would think but is he fit?

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Yep, but I also saw him get stamped on, so c'est la vie. And I'd say that for any other footballer.

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Again, intent is hard to confirm and in fairness there was no protest, but my God I hate that sh!t.

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Gooch looks like a guy who doesn't fully trust his knees. I wonder will it be the end of him.....

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I think so. The comments louding his play afterwards were nothing short of ridiculous.

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I'm surprised you didn't mention Donaghy grabbing one of the O'Driscolls by the throat repeatedly for the guts of a minute front and centre on camera.

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If I saw it I would have. You know that given my abhorrence for him. Total ******!

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James O'D was nowhere near MOTM on Sat, but his movement, and distribution particularily in the second half were very good. He frees up the space that Walsh and Geaney can exploit.

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I still don't understand that decision. Geaney or Sheehan for me.

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I can tell you now what's going to happen. Kerry are going to put Shane Enright on Conor McManus.

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We shall see.

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Alan O'Connor was beyond crap on Saturday, and his number was up from about the 20 minute mark.

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I wouldn't say beyond crap. He was marshalled well after 20 and all around him the red-shirts were lost.

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He tried to crucify O'Mahony in the face with a shoulder, O'Mahony swerved and O'Connor ended up on his keester. From that moment on he was a busted flush bar a spurt before half-time. And as I said earlier he should have seen the line for a second yellow.

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Missed it. :()

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Monaghan just about scraped over the line. Donegal's ineffectual shooting at the start of teh second half probably cost them the game but I think Monaghan could have stepped it up a notch.

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I agree with that. There was another gear in Monaghan and I think of Donegal had gotten some of those wides we would have seen the Farney step it up a notch.

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I think that is inaccurate. Monaghan gave Kerry some really tough games in Croker in 08/09 and that was a tough team.

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I was at the qualifier in 2008. Living off the Clonliffe Road makes it handy alright to do it. good times. I mostly went in to finally get to see the ancestral seat against Kildare beforehand. Shocking game.

I remember a few incidents in the Monagahn-Kerry match that irked me. Mostly Donaghy. But his goal stood out as a shocker. I was iin line withy the square and he just camped in there all day. Leading eventually to a goal that should not have been allowed. But I was thinking... who was reffing that day...

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football...erry_monaghan/

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Unless you mean resolve?

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Perhaps.

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And again I think they'll be concerned by how much they flagged towards the end of the match yesterday.

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I dunno. Looked like they were easing up to me.