we have to draw the line somewhere. germany are good, but they aren't that good.
this has been abject, embarrassing. we got lucky in kazakhstan but seriously, things can't go on like this.
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we have to draw the line somewhere. germany are good, but they aren't that good.
this has been abject, embarrassing. we got lucky in kazakhstan but seriously, things can't go on like this.
I've admonished the 'Trap Out' Brigade for a long time, and I've supported Trap and the management team despite reservations about player selection, communication, tactics etc. But I've had enough. We badly need a change of management, and I would hope Trap will resign rather than having to pay him off. He owes us that.
Roy Keane.
At least if Keane came in he'd have to put his money where his mouth is
I can only take that as sarcasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Suggesting Roy Keane is the ultimate emotional decision here - natural enough at this point - but he's not a good manager and arguably not what Ireland needs right now.
so this is what's like to be a scottish fan
I would have a temp manager come in for the next few games. Somebody who can lift the squad and bring back most if not all of the disregarded/stay aways. somebody who is good at man management. Coyle would certainly be near the top of that list if he was interested.
The FAI should never have signed him. They went for the big name and didn't actually look at how his skillset would work with the pool of players we have.
And its management that is our biggest issue, i know structures need to change, root and branch if i had my way but we do have players available to us to play a better brand of football.
Its a pity Germany didn't get going becuase if it was ten nil then there'd be no question.
Did I just hear John Giles say 'he'll lose the head with Tony'?
I'm always a strong believer that international managers should leave after 2 qualification runs at the most even if they are successful i.e. he should have gone after the Euros maybe even after the previous qualification runs. It's quite obvious at this stage he has lost the confidence of the players with some of them mouthing off (wrongly or rightly) on twitter etc.
I don't know about this. We got to the Euros and were unlucky for WC 2010. I would say he's really outlasted his usefulness. Time to go. It would have been a little unfair on Trap before, now it's justified.Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
Crucially, candidates like Coyle, McCarthy and (maybe) Keane are all unemployed right now....
Sad to say its time for a change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diarmo
Surely coyle can't be a candidate? I wouldn't be surprised if mark Hughes was available soon, might be an option?
Yeah, or Northern IrelandQuote:
Originally Posted by The Legend
No one on here is mentioning McCarthy who rebuilt a side after Jack and had success with us. Surely, he would be the obvious choice to replace Trap?
Not sure he would come back with him in the running for the Bolton job especially. He has to be considered if interested. He knows all the players and IMO would get us out of this group in second place.Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
What were the tactics tonight? He's earning a lot of cash &
I couldn't spot anything that was worthy of a contract that pays over a million a year. It was the same old sh*te. Nothing has changed from Euro 2012.
You've got to have a gameplan to shut down the German offence. Surely?
I'd welcome McCarthy or Keane right now. The players look and
play like they cannot be bothered.
If McCarthy is a viable option then definitely Trap out. I think people are deluded if they think we actually have the players to be a good side though.
I think McCarthy would definitely get a good fighting spirit and camaraderie back into the players. And he can speak English
It saddens me to say it, but its time for a change. It is simply not acceptable for an Irish side to be beat in that fashion. The bare minimum is to go down fighting.
If Mick could be convinced to come back and take us through this campaign we should do it immediately. Before the Faroes preferably.
so you were wrong then! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Diarmo
First campaign for WC 2012, we were hard to beat and organised even though we were playing wretched football. Denied the chance of a penalty shoot out to qualify. Or "make the qualify" as Trap might say.
The analysis after the last couple of games has still failed to mention how incredibly lucky we were to qualify for the euros. The complete collapse of Slovakia. Even having Slovakia as a second seed. The miracle in Moscow, the own goal by Armenia at home and incorrect sending off in the same game and of course drawing Estonia in the play off. Any other team would have beaten us.
I'm no fan of Dunphy particularly but he was more or less spot on last night. You can just imagine the likes of Ciaran Clarke showing up for training and Trap having to ask someone who the hell he is. The alienation of a growing list of players, the wretched tactics and the appallingly bad team selections-basic errors.
If Richard Dunne was playing last night we probably would have lost by 4-1 maybe and not the 6. If we get a new manager in, the chances of us doing a lot better might not be great but at least we might go down fighting, put on a display for the fans and get the crowd going and at least pick the correct team so that we might see what our standard really is ffs.
Trap certainly has to go but Keane or McCarthy to replace him? Absolute pure reactive nonsense. McCarthy has been proven to be a poor manager. He spent considerable money at Wolves yet they were perenial relegation fodder. 7 years with Ireland were noteworthy by a long period in the International wilderness after many years of success under Jack with far better resources than Trap ever. People obviously remember the noteable exception of 2002 where we were pulled kicking and screaming through qualification by Keane and a few other admittedly very talented and at the time underrated players many of which we'd kill for now (McAteer, Cunningham, Kinsella, Staunton, Holland, Quinn, Robbie Keane, Given, Carr, Finnan). Point is we had good players under McCarthy - certainly better than any of his successors have had and he achieved very little with them.
As for Keane he's more likely than Trap ever was to polarize the squad and reduce our already dwindling pool of talent to levels far beyond what they are now as he has a history of falling out with players and sidelining them afterwards - acceptable possibly at club level but a recipe for disaster in International football.
Options I'd consider would be -
Sean O'Driscoll - Always gets his teams to play good football. Has a decent record bringing youngsters through. Has never got a chance with a big club until recently where he seems to be doing well.
Owen Coyle - Good record with St Johnstone and Burnley. Also gets his teams playing good football. His record at Bolton was less impressive but certainly has a better managerial pedigree than Keane and McCarthy. Unlikely to take the job.
Brain McDermott - An up and coming manager that has done an amazing job with very limited resources at Reading. Has previously said he would love the job at some time in the future.
David O'Leary - Overall has a decent managerial record in the Premiership without being spectacular. Can be a figure of polarization but less so than Keane and a far more capable manager than McCarthy.
Chris Hughton - Not sure he'd consider the job and his managerial record is mixed at best but I'd still rather see him in the managerial position than Keane or McCarthy.
I'm not too keen on another foreign manager. I think we need an Irish manager who can get the players to feel some pride again playing for the team - something that seems to have been lost over the previous few years under Staunton and Trapattoni. My personal preference from the candidates above would be to offer the job to McDermott and see where he can take us. Unfortunately under the current pool of players this might not be to the dizzy heights we would like but we definitely should not be getting beaten 4-0 and 6-1 by any team in world football.
I must also add that the current crop of Irish players is the worst I've ever seen and I've been watching the team for over 30 years now.
Well McDermott & Hughton won't leave their PL posts and the FAI wouldn't want to buy out O'Driscoll's new contract at Forest.
Owen Coyle would probably want a break from football after a traumatic 12 months at Bolton & may prefer to return to club football because he's still a relatively young manager so we are left with O'Leary. I'd prefer Mick & Roy over O'Leary.
I don't think Keane is an option anyway. Confidence is already low & I'd fear for O'Shea's life if he started punting it long to the opposition with Keane at the helm.
I have no problem with Mick returning. I think he could lift morale & get us back to doing the basics well.
Yes they are that good, they have the 2nd best team in the world and are some distance ahead of everybody else who aren't Spain. Their team last night besides Klose contained players from 3 of the top 5 sides in Europe and they've made the last 4 or better in all of the last 3 major international tournaments. They're one of the great teams of this era, choked a few times but they're still young, there's absolutely no way they won't win a few major tournaments in the next decade particularly as the key Spanish players get older.Quote:
Originally Posted by zero
I'd go so far as to say that besides from Spain in the Euro's we've never played a team as good as that German team last night in the past 25 years.
Trap should be gone after Tuesday game otherwise the FAI will have no one going to Aviva for games - i wont be there after last night -they was no spirit or pride in that team as soon as they score the first goal. Mick McCarthy should be brought back as manager as he actually did a good job in the first place when he was in charge.
A defeat or even a draw against the Faroes and Trap will go.
I will be sorry to see him go an honour to of had him as Ireland's manager.
Whoever comes in may shuffle the pack but I doubt it make much improvement.
Lack of players coming through at all levels, lack of investment in the youth development.
Tough times ahead but we will be back ready to fight for Ireland again.
And he always kept them up! They are Wolves FFS. Coyle has never kept a team up, Hughton and McDermott have clubs and O'Driscoll has never managed at the top level. I wouldn't put O'Dreary in charge of the local U-11s.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
Get McCarthy back in, he knows the role, he has the players there to play his system and he is a decent manager. He instills pride in the players and doesn't have them afraid to play like Crappatoni!!
They beat the Faroes 3-0 and looked average. Struggled to beat Austria 2-1 (with Austria missing two great chances late in the game. One an open goal) Got beaten by Italy at the Euros. They still have some way to go to be considered a great team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
He only kept them up because the year they were relegated he was sacked a few weeks before their relegation was confirmed. They only escaped relegation the year before on goal difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by weldoninhio
He had money to spend at Wolves yet all his major signings were poor with the exception of Fletcher and at one time Doyle. He had more than enough time and money to establish them as a relatively stable albeit lower table Premiership outfit but instead they were perenial strugglers.
To rub salt into the wound this was a man who consistently favoured Kevin Kilbane at left midfield in the team instead of Damian Duff. Whatever strange decisions Trap has made regarding team selections in the past he's nothing in his scrap book that comes close to that level of insanity.
McCarthy is a poor, poor manager. I would hate to see him back at the helm. It would be an appointment that would show absolutely no ambition from the FAI.
As much of a fan as I am of McCarthy it seems to be a step back. A internal hire has Brian Kerr written all over it. The issue is systemic. That is, there is a rot in the FAI and it starts at the top with Delaney et al. The culture is rotten and incompetent. Without serious change a new manager is just a plaster over the cracks.
As it stands, I can't imagine Trap standing down or Delaney have the guts to sack him. It'd have to be a case of Trap saying he has brought this team as far as he can and, in order to preserve his reputation, stepping aside with a tidy severance package bailed out.
Issue lies in the fact that McDermott and Coyle are promising managers who I would imagine have aspirations to manage Ireland (McDermott does for certain) but, at this stage of their careers, may prefer to remain in club management. Not that international management did Mark Hughes any harm with Wales. Were Trap to stay on until 2014, these would be two names that should firmly be in the FAI's thinking, depending on the degree of success they enjoy in the meantime. Who knows, maybe Pat Fenlon could make his way into this category also in the next year or so. Winning the SPL is unlikely but still possible and if he continues the way he's going he's surely going to be in consideration for a Championship job or two.
A Mick McCarthy comeback couldn't be ruled out too quickly either. I don't think O'Leary or Keane would come near the FAI's thoughts at present or in the immediate future either.
Mick McCarthy was at the game yesterday.
Fed up listening to this kind of defence of Trap. Anyone with 2 eyes can see that the guy is tactically stagnant. He is a manager who has not evolved with the times, he is no longer a relevant football mind. His major success was in the 80's and early 90's FFS.
The man is given respect that is simply over the top. If you actually go to Ireland games and analyse how things play out in front of your eyes you can see the systematic tactical ineptitude on display. Even the most basic things in the game.
The one criticism thrown out against anyone wanting him gone is "we don't have the talent to be able to be more expansive". That is fine, but how about maybe bringing in someone who can address our dreadful defending at times? Trap's Ireland is not the defensive machine people make out either.
There are deficincies all over the pitch.
Midfield is a shambles and has been for the majority of his reign. We have neither the defensive shield in our midfield nor do we have any presence to support our attack. Whelan and Andrews are at best proficient at holding their shape in the middle of the field, and thats it. They do not pass and they do not tackle. They hold their position in the middle of the field urging opposition to try and play through them and the good teams do just that.
The amount of times tonight our 3 man midfield sat off the germans asking them to try and break us down and one simple pass would take all 3 of our midfield out of the game. And this has happened time and time again. Trap has always been a manager who shapes his side in straight lines, nobody ever drops in between the lines, either in front of the defence or in front of the midfield behind the striker. Its a feature of his sides. And quite simply its a flawed and dated philosophy. Players that operate between the lines are the ones who cause problems.
The last side to do this with great effect at Landsdowne were the Russians. Advocaat knew exactly how to maul ireland so the blueprint is there.
Nobody thinks Ireland can play like Barca FFS. But we can be defensively efficient and intelligent in our supporting attacking play.
The players dont engage the opposition at all in games, they sit off and invite opposition to break us down if they are good enough. And its the same for every game, there is never any variation.
People mention trap in the same vein as Fergie, they are both in their 70's but thats where the comparison ends. Fergie has proven himself capable of reinventing himself time and time again, adjusting his philosophy to the modern game. Trap hasn't. FAI wages are his retirement fund.
I bet if you sat down with him he could not tell you anything about many players we have playing in England. He is not actively watching games, he has no natural inclination to see whats out there for us in terms of players who may improve areas we are weak.
He insists on selecting some god awful players for every squad- Darren O'Dea, Paul McShane, Stephen Ward, Paul Green, Stephen Hunt, Andy Keogh, Simon Cox and then has the cheek to insist this is the hand he has been dealt.
No doubt Coleman will be axed again due to his shaky performance tonight, whereas the likes of Ward has been shaky for 2 years yet he still gets his game guaranteed. Its a farce.
We need to bite the bullet and blood these younger players now, let them make mistakes in big games if need be, at lease it will iron out the creases in the hope of maybe something better in the long term rather than persisting with such rubbish.
Out with the names above and in with the likes of Aidy White, Shane Duffy, Ciaran Clark, David Meyler, Robbie Brady, Greg Cunningham, Jeff Hendrick et al.
Key roles in the first XI for Coleman, Gibson, McCarthy and Long and give them the faith shown to some of the perennial underachivers.
Defend as a team and attack as a team.
Anyway rant over.
Regarding Manager Mick, be careful what you wish for.
Remember which manager it was who looked at Stephen Ward and thought "left-back."
The impression I get of Delaney is that he likes to see himself as a man who's in touch with the fans....Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
If there is enough pressure put on him to sack Trap, I think he'll do it. Delaney will see it as an opportunity to deflect from his own incompetence.
Sacking Trap is the short term solution. I have no confidence in Delaney selecting & working with Traps replacement!!
I think Cox is a good player but other than that Strongbow's post is bang on.
I hadn't considered Coyle until mentioned earlier. Food for thought. I'd like Mick back tbh.
I'd like Noel King as caretaker for Tuesday.
Here is the transcript of this afternoons Press conference. He is digging in his heels and believes he is doing a hell of a job. Its clear he wants his dough in full. I would sack him and let him go through arbitration for any monies owed. Getting hammered 6-1 at home would be a good start for breach of contract. A real footballing nightmare scenario with the ball clearly in Delaneys court.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/inter...ting-the-sack/
after the abuse he suffered at the hands of media and fans alike after doing a great job before?? a gent like mick deserves better than being subjected to our arrogant media and deluded fans againQuote:
Originally Posted by gastric
germany are a brilliant team. better than spain imoQuote:
Originally Posted by zero