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I have remained out of this for some time and I am sure I will get my head taken off.
However, I'm beginning to wonder are the committee the problem and not the chairman? They never say anything and probably don't do anything either. If this is the case, then its no way to run a business. Will the chairman now remove these people too??
After all, they speak out of turn in all the wrong places......
This to me smells a bit like a red herring. The most pressing issue surronding our club at the moment is that a motion was voted on democraticaly at a meeting and people who didnt even bother to turn up didnt like the outcome so they are trying to shoot it down. These self proclaimed FOCR's are hiding behind the scenes while trying to destroy our club. I am also full sure that when we all attend the EGM they will get their answer once and for all because the genuine supporters want to see the club surrvi. I also reckon that if they thought the no v ote would win they would have attended the last meeting instead they are stalling hoping for a miracle of some sorts.
THIS IS THE ONLY OFFER ON THE TABLE AND WE MUST ACCEPT TO SURVIVE
VOTE YES FOR CHANGE
well lads well all find out eactly what the FOCkeRs plans are next sunday, if they even have one,
muppets:mad:
Are they going to call some kind of meeting?? They do actually have a point thats the sad thing our ground is been handed over for a song and they like me know full well theres no way we can sustain the payments on a 10 year lease whilst also paying the wages of a team,wages on the bar staff,raising of 500k+(which will rise significantly over 10 years),what about the investment of our youths or the ground?? Theres so much more to this than meets the eye it does need a closer look.
The only red herring that I see is that even now as others have said, that while the Chairman has been allowed to lead this club to its knees, people here are now willing to allow him to sell our ground from under our feet.Quote:
Originally Posted by pcplod
How can people be so short-sighted indeed stupid as to allow this to happen and most of all to vote in favour of allowing it to happen?
When any group of people , that don't agree with the Chairman and his plans, come up with an alternative, they are ridiculed on here and in other places.
The only smell around here is of party political games, and this has caused this difficuties in Cobh Ramblers. Anyone with Political Agendas should leave now and allow the ordinary people to secure the club once and for all.
[quote=jamesd;1074301]When any group of people , that don't agree with the Chairman and his plans, come up with an alternative, they are ridiculed on here and in other places.[quote]
What alternative? We have heard nothing of these peoples' plans. Until we do, they are nothing except an impediment to the survival of the club in some shape or form.
there plans, there are none, people talk about what should be done like underage development and traning facilities, but you forget the club has a debth on its back, this way we can just go tight on the budget and save, and if we are ahead of our buy back of the ground we can concentrate on that, or we can forget about buying it back from the FAI and have them as landlords, which wouldnt bother me, who better, and we can concentrate on our youth system, if we have a very good youth system we would more than likely be entitled to more grants for youth development, we wouldnt own our ground but every thing else would be in place,
for this to happen you would need a lot of people with money and resources, i will gladly sign the club over to the RIGHT people in the morning if they could do this for our club,
this is one of very few clubs that has a good base ready at undergae level and senior that with some investment would go very far, but no one seems willing to invest, so what are ya gonna do
What is their alternative do you know something that I dont?
Enlighten me Jamesd
I wish I did know their alternative. However I do not believe that selling out our ground to the FAI based on the advice of our current administration is advisable. Its like a quick fix to cover up their mistakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by pcplod
Why is it that so many people are afraid to seek the resignations of the Chairman and Committee?
They are the ones responsibile for this mess and they shouldn't be given another moment in charge.
If there is a possibility of private investors coming on board then we should all be given a chance to hear proposals rather than tell eachother to shut up.
But I must stress again, allowing the current leaders of Cobh Ramblers to stay in office is a total disgrace and if it were anywhere else they would have been fired a long time ago.
[QUOTE=jamesd;1074409]If there is a possibility of private investors coming on board then we should all be given a chance to hear proposals rather than tell eachother to shut up.QUOTE]
is there a possibility though?? Thats what the members want to know!!
Look its plain to see this proposal is going to land us in an awful mess,it cant be stressed enough we do not have the man power to sustain such payments accross the board.
TEAM WAGES
BAR STAFF
TAX BILLS
TEAM TRAVEL COSTS
LEASE BACK PAYMENTS
500K-750K-(ORIGINAL LOAN FROM F.A.I)
YOUTH DEVOLOPMENT
GROUND DEVELOPMENT-(PROB WONT BE ALLOWED AS WE WONT OWN THE GROUND)
Ex: The people running the kids Christmass party are volunteers,are the likes of these people going to be left fundraising to help us out?? Lets not forget this is a 10 year proposal and whos going to stick around and commit that long.Already we are without the monthly draw which in itself requires a lot of time,Im not sure about anyone else but theres a lot of bad feeling towards the club at present,when you look at it our income will be from the bar next year and whatever from attendences{ 500 people = 150 season ticket holders,100 kids,100 O.A.P"s,150 adults } 2500euro to pay all of the above
One sec there now Marty..............would you explain what it is exactly that you meant by that comment, because I'm one of those people involved in this XMas Party and if I were involved in any fundraising at all then I'd certainly be giving it my best shot. However, the thing about this XMas Party is that it's not a fundraiser, nor is it for monetary gain of any sort. Admission is FREE and places are limited as I explained in the XMas Party thread. There was actually no party organised for the kids this year so a few people whom I knew would have the interests of the kids at heart and who might help financially were contacted and they decided to put their hands in their pockets and give the kids something. If they'd have said no then I'd have considered paying for it myself if needed to be. I see nothing at all with trying to do something right, especially if it's for Children and at this time of year.Quote:
Ex: The people running the kids Christmass party are volunteers,are the likes of these people going to be left fundraising to help us out??
I can read that line two ways and apologise if I'm reading it wrong but am simply asking which way you meant it because the people who have paid for this party have alot more salt than some I could mention.
well i said it to barry and he didnt argue with me, that if a better candidate went for the position i would vote him ahead of barry, but this person doesnt exist, this crowd want to throw barry out and get BACK into power, when they were in power the exact same happened we got in debth and sold the training ground, at least with this proposal we still have a ground, even if we dont buy it back, the FAI will be our landlords i couldnt see them wanting us to fold after investing so much in us,Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesd
plus the ground can be developed while they own it,
Don, firstly can we really trust the FAI?? They have made a fair share of blunders in the past and I for one would be very dubious if not concerned by them getting their hands on the land.Quote:
Originally Posted by don ramo
Forgive me if I am mistaken, but it would appear from the beloved constitution that you can only elect a member as a Chairman. If I am incorrect then fine, but if it is the case, I think this is an issue that needs to be resolved. I personally believe there are many non members who could be potential candidates to lead us out of the current situation.
While we all need to cut our cloth etc., I believe that it is vital that we retain ownership of our ground and not be reliant on the FAI, a group that have been known to change their minds at a whim.
Also as was pointed out earlier, if we have all these monthly debts to meet, what happens if we forfeit on a repayment or two??
do you read anything posted, there are no repayments, there buying the ground, with us haveing the option to buy it back in 10 years, its not a loan, all we have to do is have the amount ready in 10 years, thats it, no repayment plans, thats our perogative,Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesd
the FAI has invested i say over E2 million euro in ramblers, why would they want us to cease,
we all mock them, but football is there business, wouldnt be a very good now if there was no football, would it,
and you would really want someone with some sort of interest in the club sitting on any board, and people with interests buy season tickets,
again someone is saying things that they know, but dont know,
Repayments €1 per week.
But lets stop all this bull. Bottom line here is if the 'Frienzies' of Cobh Ramblers had an alternative, they would have been singing it from the roof tops before now. They would have had the confidence to sit back and allow Barry Walsh move the FAI proposal because they would have had a better one.
But hey, they just dont have one and we all know it. But more importantly, they also know that they dont have the numbers to block this lifeline by a democratic vote, and thats why they chose the route they have.
They are trying to scupper this deal before the rest of the members can pass judgement on it. If they had the numbers would they have boycotted the vote last week?
Calling for the Chairman and the committee to resign at this point now, is a red hering but to the FOCR's is ultimately more important than what we'll be voting on next Sunday! - no club means no Barry Walsh to them!
Luka you have read that the wrong way,im only saying are volenteers like yourself going to be expected to foot the bill next year as nobody else seems to know who"ll be left carring the can when we enter financial difficultly.......
That was indeed one of the ways I read it and didn't go on a rant. Apologies if I doubted though.Quote:
Originally Posted by marty
I have read a great many things and proposals and I don't like any of them that suggests selling the ground to the FAI or indeed anyone else for that matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by don ramo
How mad are ye all??? What happens if the FAI fall on hard times and need cash. Whats to stop them selling the ground for development?? Believe me they can do it.
Many people here are willing to accept a proposal from a Chairman and Committee that has brought this club to its knees through BAD Business Management. The fact that they and their proposal is even been listened to defy's belief. Ye are all ready to blame the "other" side, but as far as I can see, it is the present leadership that has done wrong. Why can't people see that??? Why don't people want to see that???
Regarding Season tickets, did you ever consider that the reason that many more haven't purchased tickets is because of the constant aggression that is shown here and in other places...... Time for everyone to grow up,,,
Absolutley no need for all this arguing. Lads leave this thread go.
well come up with an alternative, ill listen to anything that is realistically possible to help the club, fact is we owe 3-4 people substantial money, and they would be well within there rights to bring this club to its knees to get it, this commitee is no better or worse than previous ones, its actually better i think in that there sorting it in that we will still have a ground to play in and in 10 years with proper financial management well own it again,Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesd
well have a lease on it, and we have first option to buy obviously, but if they sell it from under us they have to reimburse us, like shels had to be reimbursed for the sale of tokla (which they dont own) thay had a lease
season tickets are a way of supporting the club, it just so happens our comes with the added bonus of membership (which i think should be seperate as membership is way to cheap), you dont have to go to meeting if you dont want to, a season ticket like in any other club in the world is a sign that your a fan of a club, not that people paying at the gate are no less, its just a louder statement
Maybe the reason why some of us dont see what you see Jamesd, is because we are not looking down the same tunnel as you and the FOCR's.
I think its more than obvious to most of our middle of the road membership that this isnt about Barry Walsh or his committee but about having a club next week.
I noticed you Jamesd & the FOCR statement in this weeks GICN failed to acknowledge the new structures to garuntee financial accountability for the future running of the club. They were passed by the members last week and no doubt will be again next sunday.
Now what I would like to know, given what these new proposals are meant to achive, why the FOCR's arent lauding them. I would also like to know how they will vote on the proposals next week. Will you support them Jamesd?
If you do, you'll not only be at one with the general membership, but also with the Chairman and his committee. Lets hope that doesnt prevent you from doing the right thing! Will there be another boycott Jamesd?
Red, can I state for the record that I have never been a part of any grouping and I would appreciate it if you don't associate me with any group. I am my own person and I will make up my own mind at all times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshanks
I will gladly support any plan that is purely built on Business Structures. For instance, how do we propose to meet our week to week running costs and always be in a plus?? How do we generate more local support??
I raised the issue of membership. My reason for this is that there is so much in-house fighting that many people are turned off. Everyone is to blame for this and there are two sides whether people want to admit it or not. None of these sides are right or wrong.
In my opinion there has been so much bad blood and comments passed, people are now blinkered and don't realise that the majority of supporters actually are fully in support of their club. However it is pride that is preventing each side from agreeing with eachother.
I would suggest that some form of good will jesture has to be made to bring both sides together and my suggestion for this is a small committee from both sides chaired by a neutral party with a proper framework and timeframe for agreements to be made.
I believe that this can be done and I hope these thoughts are accepted as they are made, in goodwill to all concerned with the future of Cobh Ramblers FC.
I cant quiet figure out Jamesd if you are naive or just pulling our chains, because what you just wrote is a load of ********.
If you are lumped in with one particular group -its plainly because you speak the language of one group. Yes -you occassionly pull back and speak the language of common sense but then you let yourself down by dropping the mask drop again.
You use words like compromise but in an earlier post you would have no such thing but demanded the unconditional surrender of the management committee -which is it laddie?
From where I'm viewing things -yes there is two sides looking for control of the club -one side was democratrically given it by us the members -the other failed. I, just like you and others have called for the committee to step down when I felt they werent up to the mark, but in recent weeks i have to confess I have witnessed a sea-change in their actions. I now see them moving to install all the accountable financial procedures that some of us have fought for most of the year to bring about.
But more importantly -I and many more see one side desperately working to save the club -and the other desperately trying to destroy it.
I am fully behind Barry Walsh and his team on this one!
I'm afraid Jamesd, theres no middle ground on this one -you and everyone else will get only one last chance to save your club next sunday nomatter what way you try to dress it up or re-package it!
Let's face it, even if the club was run as a very tight ship, it wouldn't make a heap of profit, and the idea of raising 350-500k in 10 years is pie in the sky stuff, especially as no single decent committee could last the 10 years and the place would be taken over by a shower of fools at some stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by don ramo
I reckon our best hopes with the FAI proposal are either:
(a) the FAI extend the pay back time, or
(b) the property market picks up, the ground is sold for big money, we get a new ground out on the edge of town and the FAI get their money back.
Personally, I think its our only option. I'm not hearing any better suggestions better from the dark side...
our every other suburb in cork is getting massive regeneration plans, balincollig, midelton, mahon, why cant cobh council build a shopping, recretion and sporting centre, with ramblers being anchor tenants our even co owners of a 4000 seater ground, you could have 5 and 7 aside all weather surfaces, full equiped gym and swimming pool, proper retailers, proper food stores, sure no reason ourselfes and wonderers couldnt share the ground, we could sell coleman park, just leave the bar as a source of money for the club, and develop the rest of it, all sociable facilities in one area, this was drogs plan, but instead of us doing it ourselfes the council will be doin the job, with a donation from us for part ownership of the main football ground,Quote:
Originally Posted by chimpster
we can all think of some sort of plan, its getting it off the ground and having realistic aspirations thats the problem
Look lads its real simple if we dont accept thie proposal then the club is F***ed there is no alternative if there was we would have heard about it by now plain as.
The rent we will be paying is €1 so that is not an issue.
Wages for players and managment will be majorly reduced so we will save there.
The bar is profitable if left alone which it will be thanks to Dans new structures
Fundraising will have to be majorly intensified but i am sure there is plenty of people with ideas.
Things like the monthly draw can be started up again and together with other events that can be staged like concerts for example the money can be raised.
If we can prove that our club has come out the other side of this crisis then maybe the people of Cobh will invest in the club
All these things are possible and will be done BUT first we must vote yes on sunday to the proposal and the new structures so that things are done properly so that in five years time if some fool does get elected then they will not be able to undo all the hard work that will have been done up til then.
We all want our club to survive so lets all be heard next sunday and finally once and for all quieten the FOCR'S and the best way to do that is to vote YES and once and for all show them the door because there is no room at the inn for those trying to bring our club down
AAAAAAAAAAAA MENNNNNNNNNNNNNN..................(Amen)Quote:
Originally Posted by pcplod
[quote=Redshanks;1074868]I cant quiet figure out Jamesd if you are naive or just pulling our chains, because what you just wrote is a load of ********.
If you are lumped in with one particular group -its plainly because you speak the language of one group. Yes -you occassionly pull back and speak the language of common sense but then you let yourself down by dropping the mask drop again.quote]
You talk about chains and mask dropping. I'm afraid you have allowed your political motivations to cloud yourself once again. Ye couldn't win unity so you would rather divide instead. You are most certainly NO friend to Cobh or the Club.
When you use the word "YE" what are you implying, maybe the people who are working hard to make sure our club surrvives and are being stone walled by the self proclaimed FOCR'S who do not want unity only power.
You say that you want our club to survuve well start acting like it and either get off the fence and vote one way or the other or stop using that big spoon of yours to stir sh*t. People are genuinely trying to do good here
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcplod
if this gets passed ill pay the rent for 10 years ;)
I think Jamesd did get off the fence with that last comment.
We are in the middle of a crisis- the mother of all crisis, one group trying to take over the club from the elected management committee and he talks about political motivations. Where have you been Jamesd - The club is riddled with politics and underhanded espionage, trickery -all in the name of power -christ sake man, M15 might soon be sending recruits over here on training courses -the place is so good at it. So dont give us that crap about politics Jamesd because you are up to your neck in it and only switched to talking about unity when someone blew you cover!
For heaven's sake Red will you get a grip. I have spoken about unity as surely its the best way forward. Enough of this bickering. Enough is enough. Do we all want this us and them crap to continue or can we really try and sort this all out ourselves???Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshanks
Roll on sunday:d