2014 World Cup

Seems that a couple of players bottled it and Vlaar was the men to step up.

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Originally Posted by Louis van Gaal

Netherlands coach Louis van Gaal says two of his players refused to take the first penalty in their World Cup semi-final shootout defeat by Argentina.
Defender Ron Vlaar stepped up but Sergio Romero saved his kick. Argentina went on to win the shootout 4-2 and will face Germany in Sunday's final.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28240152

The sociopath inside me couldn't help but smile at every one of these:

http://sadbrazilians.tumblr.com/


The soccer lover inside me couldn't help but smile at every one of these:

http://sadbrazilians.tumblr.com/


The b4stard inside me guffawed at every one of these:

http://sadbrazilians.tumblr.com/



Every single time I see that SF score I actually grin to myself.

BRAZIL 1-7 GERMANY

Heh heh.

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

The DFV were subsumed into the DFB in 1990 as the Nordostdeutscher Fußball-Verband

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Subsume the Nordost, win the World Cup? (Even if it takes another 24 years?)

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Subsume the Nordost, win the World Cup? (Even if it takes another 24 years?)

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Sure aren't we poaching from the Nordost as it is.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

I think Geysir is talking about the groups both teams formed between normal time and extra time.


I thought we saw the other side of the Krul substitution tonight - all the stuff said about Krul and the explanation could have backfired, with the Argentinians feeling more confident against a keeper who would have known he wasn't the first choice.

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Martin O'Neill and Lee Dixon had a disagreement on ITV last night. MON said that the Costa Rican affair would have put some extra pressure on Cillesen. Dixon said no, it's always a no-lose situation for a keeper, he can only be the hero never the villain. I think MON called it right though, I think there was pressure on Cillesen and pressure + doubt slows the reactions. He could well have saved two of those last night.

If LVG had a spare sub to use last night he should have brought on Worm! That'd have got inside Argentina's heads and Worm is a good penalty saver.

(Is that his name, the Swansea guy?)

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Martin O'Neill and Lee Dixon had a disagreement on ITV last night. MON said that the Costa Rican affair would have put some extra pressure on Cillesen. Dixon said no, it's always a no-lose situation for a keeper, he can only be the hero never the villain. I think MON called it right though, I think there was pressure on Cillesen and pressure + doubt slows the reactions. He could well have saved two of those last night.

If LVG had a spare sub to use last night he should have brought on Worm! That'd have got inside Argentina's heads and Worm is a good penalty saver.

(Is that his name, the Swansea guy?)

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More than anything else, it might leave Cillesen thinking that others are wondering what might have been had Krul been in goals for the shootout. That would be very unfair on a keeper.

(Vorm, i think it is)

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I don't know. :)

Though this is more the one I was thinking of.

Maybe I've taken ye up wrong. Or even, with the passage of time, misrepresented ye in the post above. If so, apologies. I think the posts were in reply to my own giving out about the lack of catching, so I assumed ye were taking up a contrary position to my own.

But I still think catching has to be the first choice whenever possible, and there's been too many keepers in this tournament happy to parry when they could have caught. Iran for one have paid a heavy price for that. That's not anglophilia or GAA influence - it's just good goalkeeping.

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No problem, I think we're broadly on the same page - I just have a bugbear with commentators, and several comments in the thread reminded me of it.

I wasn't necessarily being contrary. I think you echoed my original sentiments, though perhaps we would disagree on the perceived amount of punching relative to other tournaments.

I left one word out of that, which may have given more context; when referring to anglosphere I meant media (specifically tv commentators). It irks me when lazy commentators say 'he could/should have caught that'.

I agree with Danny, that if you've listened to these guys long enough, then you'd get the impression that punching is only something those continental types do, because they are inferior and incapable of catching the thing (must be why so many of them play in "the best league in the world"). Unless there specific statistics to back it up, the claims of a preponderance of punching are just the biennial blooming of this particular fallacy.

These things should be taken on merit, if a keeper opts to punch when perhaps he could have caught it - it doesn't automatically become a poor decision; it becomes a bad decision through poor execution, or if it leads directly to a goal. Similarly if a keeper opts to catch, it's not automatically a good decision; it only becomes one if properly executed.

Sure there are times when you wonder why did they do that. But not every instance of 'not catching the thing' should be filed under poor play.

(not explicitly punching, more example of perceived lazy commentary)
Take Tim Howard - think it was against Belgium at one point he dived backwards and pushed the ball over the bar for a corner. One commentator claimed he had time to get his feet right to catch the ball. So according to this guy three steps backwards and to the side, catch the ball on the line, while your momentum is taking you towards goal and opposition within ten yards was preferable to conceding a corner. Really? With a place in the quarter finals of the world cup at stake?

y y

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

This Krul thing is a red herring. I have a Geordie friend who says he is a terrible penalty stopper and lightening very rarely strikes twice anyway. Van Gaal knew that. The trouble is the Dutch missed two penalties. They have a penalty shoot out record almost as bad as England's. As I said in the second Costa Rican penalty shoot out, to ask players to do it in two consecutive games to the same standard is asking an awful lot. The funny thing, the one Dutchman who I was sure would miss, scored: Kuyt.

So on we go to Europe v South America as it should be and hopefully the Argentinians can continue to defend as well and for the magician to score the wonder goal the tournament awaits from him.

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The funny thing is the one player i was sure would score, scored: Kuyt. His record from the spot is brilliant.

A good catch is better than a good punch. A good punch is better than a bad catch.

I still don't know what Shay was thinking for the David Silva goal in Gdansk. As I've said here before I saw him practicing punching routine catchable shots in his extended warm up 30 mins before the game.

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Seems that a couple of players bottled it and Vlaar was the men to step up.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28240152

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So much for Dutch courage, eh?

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

A good catch is better than a good punch. A good punch is better than a bad catch.

I still don't know what Shay was thinking for the David Silva goal in Gdansk. As I've said here before I saw him practicing punching routine catchable shots in his extended warm up 30 mins before the game.

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Agreed. Though, at the risk of opening another can of worms, margins of better/worse would depend on what you do after you catch it. Lump it to far end of field to be contested as a fifty-fifty, or build up from the back? :D

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Originally Posted by A N Mouse

These things should be taken on merit, if a keeper opts to punch when perhaps he could have caught it - it doesn't automatically become a poor decision; it becomes a bad decision through poor execution, or if it leads directly to a goal. Similarly if a keeper opts to catch, it's not automatically a good decision; it only becomes one if properly executed.

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This is true. There are absolutely times to punch. Stutts mentioned Shay; I remember him punching everything against Saudi Arabia in 2002, but it was lashing rain and the ball was greasy. Fair enough.

Last night, there was a corner that was right down Romero's throat. He punched and even as the commentators were saying it was a good punch, Holland had retrieved the ball and were lining up another cross. He punched that one too, and Holland got another cross in. Ridiculous stuff.

Compare that to Cillesen, who pulled off a very nice save in particular from Messi's free kick. Held it; attack over. Such a big difference to parrying out for a corner.

I think what annoys me is that parrying tends to look like the save was more difficult, and commentators buy into it, when often (absolutely not always) it's actually a sign of worse technique.

After the game, Van Gaal said of Argentina's keeper Romero, who played under him at AZ Alkmaar between 2007 (aged 20) and 2009:

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Originally Posted by Louis van Gaal

I taught Romero how to stop penalties, so that hurts.

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Is he Roddy Collins in disguise?

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

After the game, Van Gaal said of Argentina's keeper Romero, who played under him at AZ Alkmaar between 2007 (aged 20) and 2009:



Is he Roddy Collins in disguise?

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Yeah, I saw that on the BBC. I've read elsewhere that Van Gaal is a very arrogant guy - this would be an example of that.

I also saw on the BBC that Messi didn't touch the ball once in the Dutch penalty area in the entire 120 minutes. That's incredible really.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Martin O'Neill and Lee Dixon had a disagreement on ITV last night. MON said that the Costa Rican affair would have put some extra pressure on Cillesen. Dixon said no, it's always a no-lose situation for a keeper, he can only be the hero never the villain. I think MON called it right though, I think there was pressure on Cillesen and pressure + doubt slows the reactions. He could well have saved two of those last night.

If LVG had a spare sub to use last night he should have brought on Worm! That'd have got inside Argentina's heads and Worm is a good penalty saver.

(Is that his name, the Swansea guy?)

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Saw this myself and had to agree with Martin. How could any keeper not be feeling pressure on his shoulders in a shoot-out situation? Sure, he might not be singled out as a villain for failing to save a penalty, but there's still an enormous amount of responsibility in making sure you keep at least one or two of the opposing team's penalties out. In Cillesen's situation, there was bound to be extra pressure upon him due to the whole Krul thing and, erm, the fact it was the biggest game of his life to date. He looked so small and worried in those goals; I felt slightly sorry for him. He definitely could have done better for one or two of them.

I think Vorm is a great keeper though. He's always impressed me any time I've seen him and I'm surprised he's not their regular starter. Cillesen did well during the game, nevertheless. His catching was top-notch, to be fair. None of that punching sh*t that stu hates! :p

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

After the game, Van Gaal said of Argentina's keeper Romero, who played under him at AZ Alkmaar between 2007 (aged 20) and 2009:



Is he Roddy Collins in disguise?

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I think he was being sarcastic

Yes, he was definitely trying to say it with humour.

Didn't Romero also come out and say how indebted he is to Van Gaal? I hope he's only paying simple interest.

*groans*

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Originally Posted by centre mid

I think he was being sarcastic

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Ah, I'd only seen it in written form and being reported as if he was being completely serious. Fuppin' Daily Mail on otherwise-monitored work computers...

He should get set for a lot of that kind of reporting when he takes up the reins at Old Trafford proper.

Anyway, I love this - The most common words used to describe every team at the World Cup: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/28247716

Poor Korea.