20 Teams, 2 Divisions, 1 National League

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Yes, it would.

Let's not kid ourselves that other clubs aren't getting Council support too. Would Bray be sustainable if they had to pay market rent for the Carlisle and not a peppercorn rent for example? I think Waterford and Derry get good deals on their rent too.

And it's good to see organisations like that supporting the league too

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Stu, this chap exists on here to put the LOI down.

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Originally Posted by Buckett

No, it started as a response to my post that I didn't believe there 67 clubs interested because very few publicly said they were interested and then you started using social media "sources"(ffs!) as fact.

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So, why did the FAI reveal that 67 clubs were interested and I mentioned there was a lot of speculation on clubs social media forums and outlets because that's how information is spread now!

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

nr637 and some others are obviously enthusiastic and passionate about the expansion of the senior game, if we got a € for every time pyramid was mentioned we'd all have a nice earner. In the absence of any concrete info speculation is all there is and why not, its harmless. Ive mentioned a few Ive heard but was I sitting in committee meetings when the issue was discussed, nope, but I do know a few people that are involved in the admin of local sides that are usually on the ball. Under the circumstances and the very surprising report of 67 interested clubs its a little harsh to come down on posters that excitedly guestimate on who many of those clubs out of left field might be. We all struggled to think of where we'd get 20 sides not so long ago.

UCD as an example was an error but sub in Maynooth. UCD is also a bona fide LoI club associated with the university but would function indpendently if the university decided to cut ties. Thankfully the University see the LoI club as an asset, they could do more even imo by maybe having The Bowl prioritised for the LoI side rather than wrecking the pitch with other sports that dont need spectator facilities of note.

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I like your post, hope a few more read it!

Klub Kildare are definitely interested according to the Kildare Nationalist.

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Originally Posted by nr637

While I accept your criticism, I think you will find that a debate is about opposing views

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Yes, but not all views are equal. When one view is refuted (eg UCD aren't an option for the third tier), that should be acknowledged

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Yes, but not all views are equal. When one view is refuted (eg UCD aren't an option for the third tier), that should be acknowledged

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I felt it was a naive example made by a newcomer to the LoI fold due to the entry of Kerry or maybe some other potentil new member. I dont think it negates other speculation. I forget about Finn Harps all the time when listing clubs (its now more mischief) but I certainly dont have any aissue with Harpsm fans or intend disrespect....with the exception of the peculiararities of the ground the development but it wa the same with Tallaght.

Is it really anti LoI posting??? If there are examples Ive missed than Id change my opinion.

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Originally Posted by ForeForeToo

Stu, this chap exists on here to put the LOI down.

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Why not play the ball instead of the man?

You could start by quoting posts of mine which display such a motive.

(I say "posts", but even one would do.. :rolleyes:)

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Why not play the ball instead of the man?

You could start by quoting posts of mine which display such a motive.

(I say "posts", but even one would do.. :rolleyes:)

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I am entitled to express my opinion without having to demonstrate anything to you. I will respectfully decline to meet your demands on where I should start.

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Originally Posted by kksaints

Klub Kildare are definitely interested according to the Kildare Nationalist.

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Good for them. Mayo, CK and Kildare have competed in the academy leagues. The only ones really with a visible intent on joining an LoI pathway.

From a strategic point of view for expanding the academy leagues to more areas, possibly only three stand out?:
• Meath
• Offaly & Laois
• Monaghan & Cavan

Areas which are possibly ok with neighbouring regions:
° Clare towards Treaty.
° North Tipperary towards Treaty.
° South Tipperary towards Waterford.
° North Roscommon & Leitrim towards Sligo?
° South Roscommon towards Athlone?

While the National League sounds great, three non LoI regions are in the academy leagues already (Mayo, Kildare and Carlow/Kilkenny) and there are probably only three more non LoI regions that would ideally join the academy leagues (Meath, Offaly/Laois and Cavan/Monaghan).

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Originally Posted by ForeForeToo

I am entitled to express my opinion without having to demonstrate anything to you. I will respectfully decline to meet your demands on where I should start.

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The vacuity of that response brings to mind the old adage: "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt."

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

nr637 and some others are obviously enthusiastic and passionate about the expansion of the senior game, if we got a € for every time pyramid was mentioned we'd all have a nice earner... In the absence of any concrete info speculation is all there is and why not, its harmless. Under the circumstances and the very surprising report of 67 interested clubs its a little harsh to come down on posters that excitedly guestimate on who many of those clubs out of left field might be. We all struggled to think of where we'd get 20 sides not so long ago.

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Here, here. Well said Nesta.

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Originally Posted by legendz

From a strategic point of view for expanding the academy leagues to more areas, possibly only three stand out?:
• Meath
• Offaly & Laois
• Monaghan & Cavan

Areas which are possibly ok with neighbouring regions:
° Clare towards Treaty.
° North Tipperary towards Treaty.
° South Tipperary towards Waterford.
° North Roscommon & Leitrim towards Sligo?
° South Roscommon towards Athlone?

While the National League sounds great, three non LoI regions are in the academy leagues already (Mayo, Kildare and Carlow/Kilkenny) and there are probably only three more non LoI regions that would ideally join the academy leagues (Meath, Offaly/Laois and Cavan/Monaghan).

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To use your amateur vs elite pyramid theory, and with the alleged high interest from clubs, I think there's an opportunity here to work on the academy leagues:

If the FAI favour applications to the NL from clubs with existing underage teams, they could create a separate National Underage League. This would have shorter distances due to the North/South divide and could be used as criteria for promotion to FD.

Not enough clubs with underage teams? No problem, but you won't get promoted until you meet the criteria. Finish bottom? Back to your old league and offer it to the next club off the rank so they can have a crack.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Yes, but not all views are equal. When one view is refuted (eg UCD aren't an option for the third tier), that should be acknowledged

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If you had read previous post, I did acknowledge "Fair enough, it may have been Dublin University so, that I read somewhere were showing interest according to some social media sources."
As for views some are right, some are wrong and most are somewhere in-between, if not we will just have to agree to disagree!

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Originally Posted by legendz

Good for them. Mayo, CK and Kildare have competed in the academy leagues. The only ones really with a visible intent on joining an LoI pathway.

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Meath and a Cavan/Monaghan team have also competed at LOI underage too.

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Originally Posted by Elfman

To use your amateur vs elite pyramid theory, and with the alleged high interest from clubs, I think there's an opportunity here to work on the academy leagues:

If the FAI favour applications to the NL from clubs with existing underage teams, they could create a separate National Underage League. This would have shorter distances due to the North/South divide and could be used as criteria for promotion to FD.

Not enough clubs with underage teams? No problem, but you won't get promoted until you meet the criteria. Finish bottom? Back to your old league and offer it to the next club off the rank so they can have a crack.

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I'm not enthused by the National League but I think it is probably the only option. If there was to be a Third Tier with clubs who have LoI academies, it would probably only consist of Shamrock Rovers II, Mayo, CK and Kildare.
The National League should be a good step towards eventually having a pathway from district leagues. I'm not convinced about it being a pathway to the LoI but it's the only practical way currently to get some Third Tier and pathway off the ground.

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Originally Posted by legendz

I'm not enthused by the National League but I think it is probably the only option. If there was to be a Third Tier with clubs who have LoI academies, it would probably only consist of Shamrock Rovers II, Mayo, CK and Kildare.
The National League should be a good step towards eventually having a pathway from district leagues. I'm not convinced about it being a pathway to the LoI but it's the only practical way currently to get some Third Tier and pathway off the ground.

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I think this is probably a fair analysis.

We all know what type of pyramid Irish football would have in a perfect world. But the world of Irish football is far from perfect. You have to start every journey from where you are, not where you'd ideally like to be, so this - plus the move to Summer football throughout the junior and intermediate tiers - seem like reasonable enough steps to begin constructing a pyramid that is rooted in our reality.

I think we're all in agreement there. Most of us have probably been burned too many times not to be a little sceptical but I feel better knowing the changes are being done bit by bit - feels more likely to stick than one massive change.

Just on the academies piece Legendz, what does an academy look like to you? Is it just a few underage teams, a team at every age group or a seperate entity from the men's team although?

I'm also genuinely curious to know where, ideally, people here see the bottom rung of the ladder to begin the reforms. Provincial leagues, County leagues or regional leagues, where would you start?

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Originally Posted by Elfman

I'm also genuinely curious to know where, ideally, people here see the bottom rung of the ladder to begin the reforms. Provincial leagues, County leagues or regional leagues, where would you start?

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The problem is we have a lack of uniformity in structures across the country. If you go to England they have district leagues, county leagues, combined county leagues, and then the long-standing leagues above that like the Isthmian, Spartan, Southern etc. With a clear flow between them all. They also have individual county FAs, so clear responsibility for which structure a particular club should be part of. You could start a football team in Engalnd tomorrow, get accepted to join a particular league from this Summer, and you'll automatically know which tier in the pyramid that team is (e.g. level 14).

We don't have any of that in Ireland. We don't have the equivalent of district leagues, some of which straddke counties. We don't have county FAs. We don't have county leagues covering all of their county, and we don't even have provincial leagues.

Given Ireland is a very county-focused place, it would probably make sense to have county leagues which then feed into regional or provincial leagues. What we have currently is a bit of a mess, and getting the entire country converted over to one standardised unifr system so there is a clear pipeline will be a challenge (but not impossible).

So to answer you're question - I have no idea where the bottom of the pyramid should be :D

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

So to answer you're question - I have no idea where the bottom of the pyramid should be :D

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Haha you're far too humble EYG, I thought that was a great answer! I was under the impression that this was our (much messier) quasi pyramid:

National: LOI
Provincial: LSL & MSL
County: Kerry District League, Mayo Super League, etc.
Regional: West Cork League, North Tipperary & District Soccer League, etc.

There's obviously outliers across counties (e.g. Monaghan Cavan League or West Waterford East Cork League) but I thought we could just pick a level and say "let's start here". To take one example, I know that Galway has its own FA and its district league only has Galway clubs (I swear I read somewhere that clubs playing in leagues with the word 'district' in the title meant that they could recruit from anywhere inside the county) but it sounds like that's not widespread.

So my suggestion for reform would be to start at what I've called regional level (arbitrary locations that have local attachment such as West Cork) and then build up from there with FAs at every level e.g. West Cork, East Cork/West Waterford & various Cork City leagues -> one Cork county league -> Munster Senior League -> LOI

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Originally Posted by Elfman

Just on the academies piece Legendz, what does an academy look like to you? Is it just a few underage teams, a team at every age group or a seperate entity from the men's team although?

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Tbh, once a club has teams in the academy leagues I'm calling it their academy.
Academies need to be graded. I think that is something the FAI are supposed to be looking. Tier 1, 2 and 3 academies or something like that. There's not enough full time coaches and major investment is needed in facilities. Where does anyone start? Contact hours etc.
Nationally then how players per age group realistically are good enough for professional football and how can they get the coaching required? Do these players need to gravitate towards a select few academies?

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Originally Posted by Elfman

Haha you're far too humble EYG, I thought that was a great answer! I was under the impression that this was our (much messier) quasi pyramid:

National: LOI
Provincial: LSL & MSL
County: Kerry District League, Mayo Super League, etc.
Regional: West Cork League, North Tipperary & District Soccer League, etc.

There's obviously outliers across counties (e.g. Monaghan Cavan League or West Waterford East Cork League) but I thought we could just pick a level and say "let's start here". To take one example, I know that Galway has its own FA and its district league only has Galway clubs (I swear I read somewhere that clubs playing in leagues with the word 'district' in the title meant that they could recruit from anywhere inside the county) but it sounds like that's not widespread.

So my suggestion for reform would be to start at what I've called regional level (arbitrary locations that have local attachment such as West Cork) and then build up from there with FAs at every level e.g. West Cork, East Cork/West Waterford & various Cork City leagues -> one Cork county league -> Munster Senior League -> LOI

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this is simply impossible because there is a structure already in place with people and institutions and clubs with a vested interested in the status quo. it is much easier, however more effective, to put structures in place where they dont already exist and in this instance that is from the top down

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Originally Posted by legendz

Tbh, once a club has teams in the academy leagues I'm calling it their academy.

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OK good to know, thanks. With that definition, I think it shouldn't be a big ask for clubs in the National League to field 4 and 2 boys & girls teams before getting promoted. The best would have them already, the major change would be travel costs AFAIK. So maybe clubs start with one team in the first year and gradually increase each year. The key would be linking academies to promotion to ensure/allow clubs to establish themselves in NL before making the big jump to the demands of FD academies.

I definitely agree on a tiering system but for me it would be as simple as a team in every age group at FD level and an integrated education alongside training at PD level. Won't happen overnight but would be nice to see formal targets so clubs know they will have to plan to aim for these things.

As for the other things you mention, I suppose money answers most of those concerns and it's likely going to come from the government, rich benefactors or the clubs themselves. As for players moving to a select few academies, that will always be a danger even; it'll be up to the powers that be to try and balance this to avoid talent hoarding.

I'd generally advise a 'walk before you run' approach to all this anyway - we've made great progress with minimum wage levels in the league in the last few years so now we just need to try to encourage further club spending on infrastructure.

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Originally Posted by ForeForeToo

Stu, this chap exists on here to put the LOI down.

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Assuming you are referring to Ealing Green? For years we have looked down out noses at the Irish League, poor crowds, chuckling at managers going on holidays during European games, quality of football, the almost totally dominant success in the Setanta Cup and Unite the Union Cup hammerig of IL champions etc. We since have had a significant additional upsurge in attendences and additional progrss in Europe. I dont think its unreasonable for an Irish League fan to push back with its own merits - more developed structures, wider focus on facilities development, proportionate increases in attendances albeit I think its more complex than the simple extrapolation of populations. There are also the lengthy debates between EYG and EG that became as much about the technicalities of winning the debate and possibly construed as criticism of one or another league when it was more individual oneupmanship. Maybe there is some historical aspect between a Derry fan and a fan of an older order IL club? I actually enjoyed much of the debate and even if someone is anti LoI it is an alternative perspective that can break an echo chamber. I dont think it is putting LoI down as much as trying to demonstrate that IL is developing in its own way. We look to parachute urban area clubs we believe to have potential in to a new division and the alternative opinion is the different experience in IL, so what, even if the point it laboured. If the comment above is not a reference to EG then just ignore this post!!

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

Assuming you are referring to Ealing Green? For years we have looked down out noses at the Irish League, poor crowds, chuckling at managers going on holidays during European games, quality of football, the almost totally dominant success in the Setanta Cup and Unite the Union Cup hammerig of IL champions etc. We since have had a significant additional upsurge in attendences and additional progrss in Europe. I dont think its unreasonable for an Irish League fan to push back with its own merits - more developed structures, wider focus on facilities development, proportionate increases in attendances albeit I think its more complex than the simple extrapolation of populations. There are also the lengthy debates between EYG and EG that became as much about the technicalities of winning the debate and possibly construed as criticism of one or another league when it was more individual oneupmanship. Maybe there is some historical aspect between a Derry fan and a fan of an older order IL club? I actually enjoyed much of the debate and even if someone is anti LoI it is an alternative perspective that can break an echo chamber. I dont think it is putting LoI down as much as trying to demonstrate that IL is developing in its own way. We look to parachute urban area clubs we believe to have potential in to a new division and the alternative opinion is the different experience in IL, so what, even if the point it laboured. If the comment above is not a reference to EG then just ignore this post!!

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This is the second or third time you've referred to me as a Derry fan. Why? I'm not from Derry, and you have no idea which team I support.

If only one of the 67 applicants for the new National League is an LOI B Team (Rovers) then I hope they will be rejected. It would make no sense to have just a single B team there, and that's before we get onto the issue that they can't be promoted. We should hopefully be able to get 20 good teams/clubs out of the 67 applicants without having to resort to second-strings.

Did the FAI ever say when they would make a decision on the applicants? Presumably there will be additional stages they have to go through after the initial expression of interest (?). Is there any clarity at all on the process from now? :D

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Originally Posted by Elfman

OK good to know, thanks. With that definition, I think it shouldn't be a big ask for clubs in the National League to field 4 and 2 boys & girls teams before getting promoted. The best would have them already, the major change would be travel costs AFAIK. So maybe clubs start with one team in the first year and gradually increase each year. The key would be linking academies to promotion to ensure/allow clubs to establish themselves in NL before making the big jump to the demands of FD academies.

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Another question then is is there a need for Finn Harps and Letterkenny both to have LoI academies? Maybe there is? An Athlone - Mullingar rivalry might not be a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

This is the second or third time you've referred to me as a Derry fan. Why? I'm not from Derry, and you have no idea which team I support.

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Fair enough, with the examples of Derry used in various debates with EG I made an assumption. So who do you support or is it a secret?

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

Fair enough, with the examples of Derry used in various debates with EG I made an assumption. So who do you support or is it a secret?

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I recently also talked on here fairly knowledgeably about Roscommon and the LOI too. And about Tipperary. I read everything I can about the LOI, across all clubs, so have a pretty good grasp on what's going on right around the country. The discussion you were referring to with EG re Derry was about their stadium - where I clearly had a much better understanding than him on how it was being funded (not that the guy can be told), due to having read about it in some depth.

As for support I've an uncle who was a Leitrim-based Sligo fan who used to take me to games with him sometimes. So i've a soft spot for the Bit O' Red. My family background is also Tipperary, and there hasn't been a club there since 1982. So I don't really support anyone in particular. I'm just interested in Irish football and have been for years.

Not that I need to explain myself to you anyway :rolleyes: So feck away off with your your nonesense.

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Originally Posted by legendz

Another question then is is there a need for Finn Harps and Letterkenny both to have LoI academies? Maybe there is? An Athlone - Mullingar rivalry might not be a bad thing.

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Good questions and that's why I think the definition of an academy is important. If it's just youth teams, heck yes. You want to build a fan base in your community and you need to be able to involve everyone: kids, parents, siblings, aunts & uncles, etc.

If we're talking more professional academies, with integrated education, on-site canteen and overnight facilities, it seems other countries have limited academies to certain clubs. That approach might upset a balanced competition domestically but the counter argument is that if everyone has an academy, you might be spreading your resources (ie. grants) too thinly and affect your global competitiveness.

So if Finn Harps have the only professional academy in Donegal, it might encourage more kids to go to them than Letterkenny Rovers. If both clubs have one, you're in danger of neither club matching the standard of, say, a club like Molde in Norway. But as you say, it might encourage fiercer local rivalries which generally seem to draw the biggest interest!

So it's a balancing act but I'd recommend looking after what we can control (ie. getting at least one team at every age group nationally as a standard), grow the fan base in the communities and hope this puts more pressure on gov for better funding.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

The discussion you were referring to with EG re Derry was about their stadium - where I clearly had a much better understanding than him on how it was being funded (not that the guy can be told), due to having read about it in some depth.

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Says the poster who iirc didn't even seem to appreciate that The Brandywell is actually owned by D&S Council, rather than DCFC, until it was pointed out to him!

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Originally Posted by Elfman

So it's a balancing act but I'd recommend looking after what we can control (ie. getting at least one team at every age group nationally as a standard), grow the fan base in the communities and hope this puts more pressure on gov for better funding.

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Marc Canham was saying for player development, there are three types of models:

1. A small country - really small - where the association runs that player development. You have a national academy where all the best players come and train every day.

2. A bigger country like Germany, Spain or England. They have a really developed professional game and professional clubs, where their players train and they come to the international programme 40-50 days a year. Clubs take a lead on professional development.

3. Is where the FAI are at the moment – requiring a hybrid between them and the clubs.

Over time, he is saying the FAI want clubs to take more responsibility for that development but at the moment they need to work together.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Says the poster who iirc didn't even seem to appreciate that The Brandywell is actually owned by D&S Council, rather than DCFC, until it was pointed out to him!

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Utter bullsh!t - even by your impressive standards of acting the clown on here. Sure just a couple of days ago you were embarassing yourself with your latest episode of Nordsplaining - lecturing a UCD fan about UCD, fer feck sake! Staggering how someone can be both so habitually wrong and yet so arrogantly self-assured whilst doing it :o

So go find the post where the above allegedly happened. Because everthing posted should still be right here on on this site. And when you can't, I'll be here waiting on your apology thanks.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Utter bullsh!t - even by your impressive standards of acting the clown on here. Sure just a couple of days ago you were embarassing yourself with your latest episode of Nordsplaining - lecturing a UCD fan about UCD, fer feck sake! Staggering how someone can be both so habitually wrong and yet so arrogantly self-assured whilst doing it :o

So go find the post where the above allegedly happened. Because everthing posted should still be right here on on this site. And when you can't, I'll be here waiting on your apology thanks.

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I've just tried the search engine and unless I'm misusing it, I can't find it (you yourself have nearly 3k posts and the New Stadium thread - if it was in that one - has nealry 10k).

But I do recall that it was to do with funding going to DCFC for the Brandywell, with (I think) another poster having to point out that it's actually Council-owned.

And whether you accept that or not I don't care - but why would I make up a point like that?

[As for UCD/Stu, I merely suggested (not "lectured") that with theirs being a very different model from the usual one, they could struggle to survive as a professional, Senior club without the University's support. And when he declared that they could, I gladly accepted that]

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

I've just tried the search engine and unless I'm misusing it, I can't find it (you yourself have nearly 3k posts and the New Stadium thread - if it was in that one - has nealry 10k).

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Translation = you can't find it. Because it doesn't exist.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

But I do recall that it was to do with funding going to DCFC for the Brandywell, with (I think) another poster having to point out that it's actually Council-owned.

And whether you accept that or not I don't care - but why would I make up a point like that?

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Because making stuff up is what you do on here in an attempt to excavate yourself out of self-dug holes. Just like you're doing again here. I know full well who owns the Brandywell. Just like I know who owns the RSC, the Sligo Showgrounds, Tallaght Stadium, Glenmalure Park (RIP) etc etc. I've been following the LOI since the late 1970s, so understand it extremely well, thank you.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

[As for UCD/Stu, I merely suggested (not "lectured") that with theirs being a very different model from the usual one, they could struggle to survive as a professional, Senior club without the University's support. And when he declared that they could, I gladly accepted that]

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As the old phrase in politics goes "If you're explaining, you're losing". You were just doing there what you always do. Which is dictating 'facts' to people who clearly know more about something than you do.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

I recently also talked on here fairly knowledgeably about Roscommon and the LOI too. And about Tipperary. I read everything I can about the LOI, across all clubs, so have a pretty good grasp on what's going on right around the country. The discussion you were referring to with EG re Derry was about their stadium - where I clearly had a much better understanding than him on how it was being funded (not that the guy can be told), due to having read about it in some depth.

As for support I've an uncle who was a Leitrim-based Sligo fan who used to take me to games with him sometimes. So i've a soft spot for the Bit O' Red. My family background is also Tipperary, and there hasn't been a club there since 1982. So I don't really support anyone in particular. I'm just interested in Irish football and have been for years.

Not that I need to explain myself to you anyway :rolleyes: So feck away off with your your nonesense.

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Well as the old phrase in politics goes "If you're explaining, you're losing".

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

I recently also talked on here fairly knowledgeably about Roscommon and the LOI too. And about Tipperary. I read everything I can about the LOI, across all clubs, so have a pretty good grasp on what's going on right around the country. The discussion you were referring to with EG re Derry was about their stadium - where I clearly had a much better understanding than him on how it was being funded (not that the guy can be told), due to having read about it in some depth.

As for support I've an uncle who was a Leitrim-based Sligo fan who used to take me to games with him sometimes. So i've a soft spot for the Bit O' Red. My family background is also Tipperary, and there hasn't been a club there since 1982. So I don't really support anyone in particular. I'm just interested in Irish football and have been for years.

Not that I need to explain myself to you anyway :rolleyes: So feck away off with your your nonesense.

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Talk about blowing your own trumpet !!

Home Farm have applied, working with DCU as part of their package.

Do Bohs and DCU not have a link up or is that just use of DCU facilities? If I were Bohs looking for exclusive access to scholarship programmes would be a priority. Use of S+C expertise and labs is different as it could be commercialised by DCU but integration of club/university teams and club providing top coaching is the give back i'd have expected so 2 clubs in the mix would be fun to watch.

DCU seem a bit polyamorous when it comes to Irish football. Or maybe they only like one at a time, move on quickly and occasionally get back with an ex.
Bohs > Shels > Bohs > Home Farm?

I missed the Shels part....now that would be really fun to watch if there was a Bohs v Shels courting DCU on a long term gig!