Fair enough, it may have been Dublin University so, that I read somewhere were showing interest according to some social media sources.Originally Posted by pineapple stu
He doesn't. He does have a negative view for pure speculation such as "There are also several Universities, such as UCD [...] showing interest". Doubly so when the complete and utter refutation of this is ignored. It's not helpful.
I am not ignoring that a lot of my post is based on speculation, but it seems to be a bit unfair of you now to be critical. It is just a conversation on where the interest in the new third tier National League could come from!
Not really? Criticism is fundamental to conversation and learning I'd have thought.
Otherwise everyone just accepts things at face value, and that's no good to anyone.
Only photo I can see of Lourdes Stadium is a pitch, track and nothing else? I assume there's a stand.
In the short-, even medium-term, not many more than at present (one or two extra, maybe?).
But over the long term, and esp if we can improve and enlarge stadia, then I think there is opportunity to get to maybe 7 or 8, with the rest still operating on a p-t basis, but on a bigger scale than at present.
While on the subject of stadia, it looks like the long-promised £36m Government funding for football stadia in NI will be released soon, which depending on how it's allocated, could help a handful of clubs in a big way, or, a lot of clubs more modestly.
Plus there is quite a bit of outside investment (relatively speaking) coming into certain clubs (Coleraine, Carrick, possibly Cliftonville etc), though I fear this could lead to a new "arms race" in players' wages and transfer fees etc, thereby encouraging clubs to over-reach themselves, rather than develop progressively over the long-term.
I really don't see how, on the basis that "A rising tide floats all boats".
While I genunely believe that the absence of a pyramid at best maintains a cartel of the same old clubs, at worst leads to stagnation. I mean, the big four Dublin clubs are undoubtedly bigger/better than their Belfast equivalents, but that should hardly surprise considering the respective populations and economies etc. However, below our four Prem teams, the Championship also has Dundela and H&W Welders, who are managing ok in East Belfast even in the shadow of Glentoran - Welders' stadium is excellent btw. (Belfast also has Newington, though they look like they could be relegated to the third tier after this season.)
And more generally, even if more than half of LOI clubs are f-t, it seems to me to be very disappointing/unrealised that ROI still only supports 17* Senior clubs, versus NI's 24 (outwith Derry City).
Furthermore, in that there are few large towns or regions without Senior representation, I'd say the IL has a wider geographical spread of senior clubs than the LOI. Of course, this new NL is an attempt to address this issue, but I really don't see how suddenly elevating a number of (essentially) self-selected clubs to a level which is still miles short of even the FD (facilities, crowds, finances etc), can remedy that. Instead the solution must surely be to develop from the bottom-up organically, and from the centre outwards, even though that could take years to take root properly.
P.S. I feel compelled to add, before s.o. jumps in, that I certainly don't discount the other advantages the LOI has over the IL (eg 35k at the Aviva, or Shams thumping Larne in Europe etc). But as someone who has a nerdy, even sad, interest in this sort of thing, and especially since the IL is also going through its latest revamp of the pyramid just now, it's good to look outwards as well as inwards, so as to see how others do things. And you did ask!
* - i.e. excludes DCFC, UCD and Kerry, who cannot yet said to be firmly established, even if it's looking ever more promising.
Last edited by EalingGreen; 28/02/2025 at 4:21 PM.
If Google Earth is anything to go by (I told you I was nerdy!), it doesn't appear to have any spectator facilities, or even a fence round it (athletics track doesn't allow). No car parking either, though there looks to be a massive hospital car park next door. Meanwhile, the facility is completely hemmed in by housing and other development, so no room for expansion - stands, terraces etc.
It's appears basically just to be a playing area inside an 8 lane athlettics track. Oh, and there's also a bowling green it seems. And a GAA club across the way.
Eh, what?
Some form of pyramid is needed. An Amateur pathway and an Elite pathway can coexist. Going from Amateur to Elite pathway should require more licencing criteria etc.. It just seems otherwise that potential support bases for full time professional clubs is being divided.
https://foot.ie/forums/117-Kerry-FC
A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
Opportunity lost for new clubs/regions to join the LoI family.
I was talking about ROI (state) supporting Senior football clubs.
DCFC aren't ROI (obv); UCD may play in the LOI, but they aren't a conventional professional club in the sense of being sustained by the usual means (crowds, sponsors, advertising, media etc); while Kerry may well become established - and fair play if/when they do - but it's still not (quite) confirmed.
Eh, what?
You know nothing about UCD based on that post anyway
Yup but Drog Town have a tidy ground in a housing estate, size of a pitch and clubroom. There'd be little space for spectators unless standing on the sideline. Probably not a problem initially but get any sort of decent crowd and it's a squeeze. Lourdes Stadium has all the space needed. These are all preliminary expressions of interest, plenty will be filtered out but should be canvassed for wider structure development. Its gas seeing Salthill, Mervue in again but this time not able to lord it over GUFC - I'd love to see them in Europe the same season the other two are humbly entering a 3rd tier of LoI after returning to their little fiefdom.
Newmarket Celtic won the FAI Junior Cup in recent years. A club like that could be pragmatic that LoI football or full time professionalism isn't attainable.
In a dual pyramid structure, a Newmarket Celtic could strive to be the top of the Junior/District to Intermediate/Regional pathway.
The Elite pathway then could have more stringent criteria in coaching qualifications, infrastructure, academies etc.. For strategic reasons having clubs from certain regions could be a preferred necessity for the Elite pathway. The intention of the Elite pathway should be the attainability of full time professionalism.
The suggested National League could well be a good start towards building a pathway from the district & regional leagues to the National League eventually.
A pragmatic approach might be required on the National League to LoI. Whether there is direct promotion or else in time licencing to be achieved for clubs who want to be within an Elite pathway.
https://foot.ie/forums/117-Kerry-FC
A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
Opportunity lost for new clubs/regions to join the LoI family.
Thanks again for your post, but criticism has always been considered as a negative word as it can be associated with the sender who wants to show their disapproval on comments!
Last edited by nr637; 02/03/2025 at 12:18 PM.
No, it started as a response to my post that I didn't believe there 67 clubs interested because very few publicly said they were interested and then you started using social media "sources"(ffs!) as fact.
Criticism certainly hasn't always been considered a negative word.
It's the cornerstone of debate. Points should stand up to scrutiny. If they don't (for example, the criticism of your suggestion that UCD would be interested in the third tier) then they need adjusting.
If you tell me that were the football club detached from the university, had to rent or buy its own ground (Bowl or elsewhere), and was unable to avail of scholarships, that it could still operate sustainably over the long-term in the FD (at least), then fair enough, I'm happy to retract.
In any case, it doesn't detract from my basic point that ROI surely ought to be able to support more than 19 Senior clubs. I mean, Scotland supports 42 clubs on the same population, even despite the two Ugly Sisters sucking the blood from everyone else.
Last edited by EalingGreen; 01/03/2025 at 6:16 PM.
Yes, it would.
Let's not kid ourselves that other clubs aren't getting Council support too. Would Bray be sustainable if they had to pay market rent for the Carlisle and not a peppercorn rent for example? I think Waterford and Derry get good deals on their rent too.
And it's good to see organisations like that supporting the league too
nr637 and some others are obviously enthusiastic and passionate about the expansion of the senior game, if we got a € for every time pyramid was mentioned we'd all have a nice earner. In the absence of any concrete info speculation is all there is and why not, its harmless. Ive mentioned a few Ive heard but was I sitting in committee meetings when the issue was discussed, nope, but I do know a few people that are involved in the admin of local sides that are usually on the ball. Under the circumstances and the very surprising report of 67 interested clubs its a little harsh to come down on posters that excitedly guestimate on who many of those clubs out of left field might be. We all struggled to think of where we'd get 20 sides not so long ago.
UCD as an example was an error but sub in Maynooth. UCD is also a bona fide LoI club associated with the university but would function indpendently if the university decided to cut ties. Thankfully the University see the LoI club as an asset, they could do more even imo by maybe having The Bowl prioritised for the LoI side rather than wrecking the pitch with other sports that dont need spectator facilities of note.
While I accept your criticism, I think you will find that a debate is about opposing views, I agree with the use of social media as a form of sourcing information that maybe true in part and you don't, is that fair to say!
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