Rugby 2011

Italy and Argentina did have to earn it the hard way but it was down to them as well and they did it. Georgia, Russia and Romania have shown anything near the performance of Italy and Argentina when those nations started to impress. The ENC is offering an opportunity for more countries to develop, an opportunity I'm not aware of Argentina and Italy having. The top ENC sides need more top level games though, I agree fully with that. They need more big test games and test against Europe leading nations.

Looking forward to tomorrow mornings game. It's been great so far to see Ireland win all 4 games and top the group. It'll be fantastic to make the semi-finals, for the first time ever.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Italy were getting some good and some exceptional results as an emerging team for 20 years before they were accepted into the expanded 6 nations.
And I think some good results or some good performances came at the world cup as well.

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I'm not going to go mypostal on it - I'm not going to argue too much that weren't unduly delayed in gaining entry to the Championship, and did get occasional results before then. However, I think it was the 1995 World Cup that they really became competitive, and they really kicked on from there results wise, and the first 6 Nations was 2000.

No, no one should ever go mypostal on a debate, explanation about opinions made is quite sufficient :)

The 6 nations is a cosy, nice sized, cartel, but I assume Stutts is thinking like me that it would good if there was some criteria for an emerging team to enter that cartel. For myself I have a great admiration for the dedication applied to developing the sport in those 'emerging' countries, so much so that I was almost disappointed when O'Gara dropped that goal in Rome.

FFS! Wales, Jesus h Christ - EMBARRASSING, just as we were getting on top again then we make two stupid mistakes in the line out, that's the end for the old guard and our best ever chance to make a final. Watch England make the final in their sleep. And when are we going to get rid of that dirge as an anthem, more embaressment seeing Irish people sing that pop song, whats wrong with Danny Boy. FFS
(early morning rant,lol, sorry!)

Wales were superb. Nothing but admiration for them. Irelands mistakes were down to pressure. We were beaten in every facet of the game. They have every chance of winning the competition now.

It felt like we were pushing it from the first try on. I think the 2 missed penalty opportunities led to a sense of panic. My hunch is it was a good idea for the first one (try to hit back immediately, confidence in our forwards etc) and then when the second came along we made the same decision rather than admit the first was a mistake.

Also felt that all the bounces went wales' way we didnt get the benefit of turnovers etc.

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Originally Posted by cavan_fan

It felt like we were pushing it from the first try on. I think the 2 missed penalty opportunities led to a sense of panic. My hunch is it was a good idea for the first one (try to hit back immediately, confidence in our forwards etc) and then when the second came along we made the same decision rather than admit the first was a mistake.

Also felt that all the bounces went wales' way we didnt get the benefit of turnovers etc.

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Agree on the penos. The second one definitely should've been kicked for goal. Incredible lack of composure from experienced players who should no better.

As good as Wales were - and they were excellent - we made their life easier with a fairly lifeless backline performance and some typically silly mistakes at crucial times. It's gutting we couldn't have shown more when, as pointed out, we'll likely never have a better chance to win the thing.

The games momentum swung when we messed up on our own throw on the half way line.

All week everybody has been banging on about
Warburton at the breakdown and I'm surprised we didn't have an effective plan to combat him. Welsh defence excellent but our big game players didn't turn up.

Back at 10 all and we lose our first lineout. And Wales score. Such is the fine dividing line and the momentum remains with Wales for the rest of the game. Talk of winning the tournament was ridiculous as this Irish team wasn't capable of putting in back to back to back consistent performances. Pity but now back to the soccer.

Not taking the penalties was stupid - get the points on the board ffs, whoever's call it was. If weren't going to play to O'Gara's strengths, we should've gone for Sexton. Yet another coulda, woulda, shoulda.

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

when are we going to get rid of that dirge as an anthem, more embaressment seeing Irish people sing that pop song, whats wrong with Danny Boy. FFS
(early morning rant,lol, sorry!)

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Watched the Wales players sing their anthem with pride, while we are the only country to have no anthem, just a meaningless plastic tune.

Ireland couldn't handle the favourites tag again, but they'll have 4 years before playing the next big tournament, and on the bright side, it should condemn the idea of rugby overtaking our sport in popularity until then.

At least the football team are still in a tournament. :)

No arguments here. Wales were the better team in every area of the game. I hope they can bring the same intensity to the French game.

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

And when are we going to get rid of that dirge as an anthem, more embaressment seeing Irish people sing that pop song, whats wrong with Danny Boy. FFS
(early morning rant,lol, sorry!)

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You realise Danny Boy is actually a dirge, right? In the true definition of the word.

I'm not sure what bennocelt is talking about when he says it was embarrassing. Our defence was immense. Five or six times Ireland had us on our goal line, and five or six times we drove you back with no points. We even had the luxury of several missed kicks.

Ireland played quite well in the first half and a few years back we'd have folded and lost that game 35-7 or something. But Gatland has done a terrific job in maintaining consistently excellent performance levels ever since coming in.

Shame for quality players like O'Driscoll and D'Arcy to bow out of their last ever World Cup like that, especially after that great win against the Aussies in the pool. But we totally deserved the victory - no controversial try needed today.

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Originally Posted by Macy

Not taking the penalties was stupid - get the points on the board ffs, whoever's call it was. If weren't going to play to O'Gara's strengths, we should've gone for Sexton. Yet another coulda, woulda, shoulda.

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I agree, I couldn't believe O'Gara kept kicking into touch in the 1st half when you had so much possession. Getting points on the board then would have given Ireland the lead in the second half assuming the game proceeded as it did, and that would have left us chasing the game and who knows what would have happened then.

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Originally Posted by Cymro

I'm not sure what bennocelt is talking about when he says it was embarrassing. Our defence was immense. Five or six times Ireland had us on our goal line, and five or six times we drove you back with no points. We even had the luxury of several missed kicks.

But we totally deserved the victory - no controversial try needed today.

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Yeah def deserved the victory no doubt and the defence was very tight, but Ireland didnt really turn up at all, and the big guns were all over the place. To beat the Aussies then lose to a Welsh team that are beatable, damn.

Anyhow, typical French turn on the style, wow

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

You realise Danny Boy is actually a dirge, right? In the true definition of the word.

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True, it might not be the best song in the world, but at least its a better alternative

Now isn't the right time.....

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

To beat the Aussies then lose to a Welsh team that are beatable, damn.

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I'm not sure Australia are a better team than us at the moment to be honest.

Not trying to upset the genuine rugby fan but that result was entirely predictable. The hype around the team went way way way over the top.
Talk about semi finals and finals was commonplace. Wales are a proud rugby nation and we basically dismissed them.

Better team won, no question about it.

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Originally Posted by Cymro

I'm not sure Australia are a better team than us at the moment to be honest.

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Yeah but to beat the Aussies at a world cup never happened before, a big physiological boost. Anyway good luck against the French:D

Afaia, O'Gara kicked into touch because the chances of him converting from the sideline into the wind were slim. Did the Welsh guy convert much in the 2nd half?
Anyway Wales were magnificent and even better than magnificent when defending inside their 25.
At 10-10 there was a glimmer but it would be a total disrespect to the Wales effort to say there was a fine line at that stage which Ireland could have crossed. Tough for the Irish to have to digest yet another World Cup flop.

The timing of Wales' scores were perfect for them, devastating for us. I was telling my mates last night that I was afraid of wales, and I was told no, we're better. Still, I'm always worried - it's part of being Irish and into sport. Anyone Irishman who is confident going into a big team game can't be a real sports fan :)

Stutts i told you and posted hear that i thought we would lose to wales.very disappointing but at least we will have a playoff to look forward to..hopefully

You did, that's true.

Its all Ryle Nugent's fault RTE should have left Hugh Cahill doing the commentary and Ireland would be in the semis!

Only saw second half of Oz v SA but thought SA wuz robbed, or at least very unlucky. High tackles unpunished, fwd passes penalised (rightly) but no more fwd than 3 or 4 that have gone unpunished so far in NZ game, and that nearly always go unpunished. Even the final penalty was harsh I thought. Contact in the line out was minimal. I think the Oz guy just fell.

Argies giving NZ a run for their money so far.

For those who will be cheering on our celtic cousins (last week's welsh slime) in their historic semi final against the French.
If you were wondering about - wouldn't it be nice to join in their national anthem -
but thought it infinitely beyond the realms of possibilities, don't give up hope.
Poet Nigel Jenkins has clipped in with a phonetic transcription of Hen Wlad fy Nhadau,
which actually fits in quite decent as long as you can keep a straight face.

My hen laid a haddock, one hand oiled a flea,
Glad farts and centurions threw dogs in the sea,
I could stew a hare here and brandish Dan's flan,
Don's ruddy bog's blocked up with sand.
Dad! Dad! Why don't you oil Auntie Glad?
Can whores appear in beer bottle pies,
O butter the hens as they fly!


Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi,
Gwlad beirdd a chantorion, enwogion o fri;
Ei gwrol ryfelwyr, gwladgarwyr tra mad,
Dros ryddid collasant eu gwaed.
Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf i'm gwlad.
Tra môr yn fur i'r bur hoff bau,
O bydded i'r hen iaith barhau.

I'll be supporting the French. Never been a Welsh fan always support England against them too. Allez Les Bleus!

Fook Gatland and Edwards - Allez les blues.

I concur.

Was listening to R5 Live at lunchtime today. Man, I love an England World Cup post mortem in any sport. I think Martin Johnson is the Stan of international rugby. Great servant & leader on the pitch, out of his depth as manager / coach.

I've nothing against Wales and am quite neutral on that side of the draw. I've always loved the French rugby idiosyncrasies and quite like Wales. May the better team win.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Argies giving NZ a run for their money so far.

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33-10 Walkover. NZ the only group winners still remaining.

All set up for a repeat of the 1987 final, which madly enough, was also in NZ. With a similiar outcome.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I've nothing against Wales and am quite neutral on that side of the draw. I've always loved the French rugby idiosyncrasies and quite like Wales. May the better team win.

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Wouldn't have anything particularly against the welsh (well maybe Andy Powell), just their coaching staff.

Argentina were unlucky (certainly no walkover!) - a fairer rub of the green in the first half who knows how the pressure would've got to the All Blacks. I would've rated Owens a few years ago, but he's really off form the last year or two including games in last years Celtic League.

What's all this "the Welsh were much the better side". We actually dominated every phase of the game (possession, territory, yards made etc etc). Obviously we were behind on one stat that matters - the score.

There was one pivotal moment in the game. We got back to 10 all. The momentum was with us. Then there was a line out for us around the centre of the field and we lost it. The first line out we lost and Wales went on to score from that. The rest of the game was Wales' (they scored from another lost line out). I really believe that if we won that lineout we had a better than even chance of winning the game. Such are the fine margins between victory and defeat.

A comment on the anthems. I agree, there is no emotion for Ireland's call. It's just a song. It represents nothing. I pray to God that we have a great rendition of ours (please no bagpipes) on Tuesday. It sets the tone.

Wales were much the better side in the same way we were much the better side against Australia despite the fact they spent more time around our try line.

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

A comment on the anthems. I agree, there is no emotion for Ireland's call. It's just a song. It represents nothing. I pray to God that we have a great rendition of ours (please no bagpipes) on Tuesday. It sets the tone.

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I'm not a huge fan of Ireland's Call, but I still prefer an Ireland team to an ROI/NI split. The debate doesn't appear to be about using some other song (which would be my preference), but rather that we should force through Amhrán na bhFiann on players and supporters from a unionist background.

The irony being that Amhran na bhFiann is an anti-imperialist song.

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

What's all this "the Welsh were much the better side". We actually dominated every phase of the game (possession, territory, yards made etc etc). Obviously we were behind on one stat that matters - the score.

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Which phases did we dominate ? Possession and territory were margnially in our favour, but we missed more tackles, lost more lineouts, conceded 3 penaltys at scrum time and conceeded more turnovers.

The more I think about it - the more I think the scoreline flattered us, Priestland kicked two penalties off the woodwork. Wales for me have improved beyond all recognition from the six nations, will be interesting to see how good they really are. A repeat of that against France would be good enough I think.