Another Nordie thread

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Originally Posted by Gather round

More hot air from Reykjavik. It's quite clear what FIFA's statutes mean, not that I agree with them. For players from NI wanting to play for the South, nationality isn't enough in itself for eligibility. I'll take FIFA as the authority thanks, not the web ramblings of a few Scandinavians.

An Irish nationality doesn't entitle to play for Northern Ireland? Aye, right.

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Whether you agree with them or not is irrelevant.
If you state you have a clear understanding of the FIFA statutes why would you quote article 16 to support your contention?
It's irrational.
Ealing Green has already vainly tried to argue the validity of article 16 and you can guess where that ended up.
The OWC board after about 200 pages (a bit slow up there) finally conceeded that article 16 did not apply.
Now, do we have the last man standing who believes in Article 16?
Not even the IFA believe in Article 16. As dumb and all as the IFA are on this issue, not even they argue Article 16.
The IFA in their wisdom decided that article 17 must apply. Article 17, the one to do with acquired nationality. The IFA are much smarter that those who argue for article 16, the IFA decided to use the same argument that has already failed before:o

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For players from NI wanting to play for the South, nationality isn't enough in itself for eligibility

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Automatic Nationality without residence requirements, as stated in article 15, is what is applied to 6 county born declaring for the Republic.

The FAI have the perfect right to make young Irish nationals born in the 6 Counties aware of their national team options and select those who put themselves forward for selection, like the 3 or 4 Derry lads in the last year.

love the change of name - sums it up perfectly. I have been avoiding this thread as i just know exactly who would be posting and exactly what they would be posting.

UNBELIEVABLY BIG F*CKIN YAWN

so call me naive, but why have you come in to post the exact statement above?

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

so call me naive, but why have you come in to post the exact statement above?

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Perhaps, Paul, because even an "UNBELIEVABLY BIG F*CKING YAWNY" thread is more interesting than anything in Saska-UNBELIEVEABLYF*CKINGBORING-toon on a Tuesday morning...:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

so call me naive, but why have you come in to post the exact statement above?

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Ignoring the fact that ive posed this question to you Paul a few times on the eL forum, suffice to say i find these arguments between the usual suspects so tiresome, unproductive and irrelevant. Rehashing the same ol crap over and over and over with no end product just seems like a big waste of time and i think the thread title (whoever changed it) says it all. What was a discussion about a show on TV descended over the course of a few pages to something so unproductive that it is hardly worth reading. And the length of some of the posts is crazy. How do people here have so much time to dedicate to trying to "win" an argument against some faceless poster on a website?

Anyway, you may all continue with this crap without further comment from me if thats what floats yer boat. Enjoy.

and yes, EG, the absurdity of your posts keeps me far more entertained than the goings on of downtown saskatoon on a Tuesday morning...

[quote=Gather round;1044531]


I doubt that, but go on, tell us. What neutral and inclusive anthem and emblems?

Maybe a simple green background (uncontentious colour) with the emblem of a unified FA. "Ireland's Call" works well enough for Rugby so why reinvent the wheel. But actually I am not advocating an AI team, just suggesting that the IFA and NI fans need to do a whole lot more if they are genuinely interested in building a cross community support base.

We grasp your witless wind-up well enough.

Dont understand why you presume that someone who does not agree with you is indulging in a wind-up? Maybe it's in your inability to comprehend difference that is the root cause of the problem.

Even if your anonymous mate actually exists (which I doubt), I'm not sure you fully understand how the shock-jock profession actually works. You claim said mate knows authoritatively that no Catholics attend NI away games. Did he do a survey as they entered the ground, or what?

Actually I run a successful PR business and work with journos (including this one) day in day out. I am even married to a journalist so I think my understanding of the profession is ever so slightly better than yours. My mate does exist but forgive me if I dont betray his identity to a person who has form for unprovoked verbal abuse. Think the "100% Protestant" reference was not intended as an authoritative piece of quantitative research, but a means of underscoring a point that very very few Catholics travel with the NI team, and having viewed Co Down Green's clips I think that even you might be able to understand why.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Ignoring the fact that ive posed this question to you Paul a few times on the eL forum, suffice to say i find these arguments between the usual suspects so tiresome, unproductive and irrelevant. Rehashing the same ol crap over and over and over with no end product just seems like a big waste of time and i think the thread title (whoever changed it) says it all. What was a discussion about a show on TV descended over the course of a few pages to something so unproductive that it is hardly worth reading. And the length of some of the posts is crazy. How do people here have so much time to dedicate to trying to "win" an argument against some faceless poster on a website?

Anyway, you may all continue with this crap without further comment from me if thats what floats yer boat. Enjoy.

and yes, EG, the absurdity of your posts keeps me far more entertained than the goings on of downtown saskatoon on a Tuesday morning...

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Ok then. I'm not sure what question you have asked me before by the way.

Anyway whats so boring as the 'toon, is it worse than winnipeg?

But even if the same posts are rehashed(algorithm:D ya i am a nerd) over and over again, at least isn't it keeping interest in the board for those that want to debate it, from both sides of the footballing and/or political divide. Any converse, is good converse in my opinion anyway. :) You might even find that there is a little nugget of info that you didn't expect to find, even if its just a good one liner phrase, if not then just choose to ignore the thread, you have to see the irony of what you posted, just liike sideshow bob saw the irony when he used the TV as the medium to tell everyone he was going to blow up the whole world because they watched too much TV, no?

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Originally Posted by aidz1

Jaysus lads,
have ye no jobs???

Essays being written on here..

i have a suggestion for a new flag that would incorporate the island of ireland.
Perhaps, some green that symbolises the nationalist community ( and also green for teh emerald isle) and perhaps some orange which could represent those living here of the unionists belief. And to merge the unity of the 2, some white for a bit of peace and love :D
we could replicate those 3 colours on the french national flag and have said 3 colours vertically across.. any thoughts?? :D

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Best post on this Thread by a mile:D

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Ok then. I'm not sure what question you have asked me before by the way.

Anyway whats so boring as the 'toon, is it worse than winnipeg?

But even if the same posts are rehashed(algorithm ya i am a nerd) over and over again, at least isn't it keeping interest in the board for those that want to debate it, from both sides of the footballing and/or political divide. Any converse, is good converse in my opinion anyway. You might even find that there is a little nugget of info that you didn't expect to find, even if its just a good one liner phrase, if not then just choose to ignore the thread, you have to see the irony of what you posted, just liike sideshow bob saw the irony when he used the TV as the medium to tell everyone he was going to blow up the whole world because they watched too much TV, no?

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"Any converse is good converse"? did you ever watch Roddy and Sean Connor on MNS? :D

Anyhow, i dont come on here to learn new things, respect different opinions or pick up witty one liners - im just a cantankerous w*nker who doesnt see the point in trying to convert the opinions of others nor do i see the point in the Nordie Tag Team coming on here boring the t1ts off everyone with their "copy & paste" posts. I just wanted to get that off my chest. And i feel a lot better and a little less cantankerous for having done so.

Nowhere is worse than Winnipeg. No way.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

i feel a lot better and a little less cantankerous for having done so.

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I'm pleased for you. So long as you can forget you're still living in Saskatchewan, you'll be fine, so....;)

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

I'm pleased for you. So long as you can forget you're still living in Saskatchewan, you'll be fine, so....;)

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every little helps... :o

ive just brought this back up for SKSTU

but I was watching a bit of the news here(think it was channel 4 or 5) not sure, I was trying to find it on youtube, anyway I spotted a lot fellas with NI jerseys in the group of loyalists moving as close as they could to the republican silent protest to rub them probably. Anyway I didnt take much notice till I read the Irish Times yesterday and it was pointed out that there were quite a lot of people in the protest that were wearing NI jerseys that were chanting songs such as GSTQ with the no surrender chants, the famine is over, why dont you take a wash, etc etc . Im not trying to stoke the fire here, but one cant keep separating NI supporters and those that wear NI jerseys or say those ppl aren't supporters of the NI team, eventually you have to admit one and the same etc....

are you being serious? :confused::confused::confused: The IFA cant stop someone buying a football top and wearing it just like the FAI cant stop republicans buying a republic top and wearing it if they choose to get up to mischief.

Yeah but NI is a loyalist team. Ireland are not a republican team. That is the difference!

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Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

Yeah but NI is a loyalist team.

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Try telling that to e.g. Sammy Clingan or Chris Baird, or our latest call-ups, Paddy McCourt of Celtic, or Derry City's Niall McGinn, former Donaghmore and Tyrone U-21 GAA player...

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Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

Ireland are not a republican team.

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So who's that team at No.38, then? ;)
http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ra...llranking.html

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

ive just brought this back up for SKSTU

but I was watching a bit of the news here(think it was channel 4 or 5) not sure, I was trying to find it on youtube, anyway I spotted a lot fellas with NI jerseys in the group of loyalists moving as close as they could to the republican silent protest to rub them probably. Anyway I didnt take much notice till I read the Irish Times yesterday and it was pointed out that there were quite a lot of people in the protest that were wearing NI jerseys that were chanting songs such as GSTQ with the no surrender chants, the famine is over, why dont you take a wash, etc etc . Im not trying to stoke the fire here, but one cant keep separating NI supporters and those that wear NI jerseys or say those ppl aren't supporters of the NI team, eventually you have to admit one and the same etc....

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You really haven't a clue, do you? :rolleyes:

Feeney i think is also a catholic

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Originally Posted by bwagner

Feeney i think is also a catholic

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Aye right, him and Ian Paisley...:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

Yeah but NI is a loyalist team. Ireland are not a republican team. That is the difference!

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Damn those loyalists in their green shirts with a Celtic cross on it.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Aye right, him and Ian Paisley...:rolleyes:

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lol are u sure he isnt but ? any other catholics in the team or past ones??

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Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

Yeah but NI is a loyalist team. Ireland are not a republican team. That is the difference!

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KK, you leave yourself right open all the time with comments like this one. EalingGreen can put up more than a good argument single-hand against the more articulate guys on this forum with his football knowledge .I would not argue with many things he writes even if I wanted to as I would not be able to compete with him. So I would suggest you do the same before you embarrass yourself further.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

You really haven't a clue, do you? :rolleyes:

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I think he (P O'Shea)is quite spot on there because on Sunday I had the misfortune of having to work & my workplace is quite close to the Sein Fein/loyalist(loyalist hate mob)protest. The majority of the hate mob were kitted out in either Rangers or mostly NI merchandise. Yes there were loads of union jacks but not one army flag(the whole point of the parade was the army - no)on show & this mob where on the hunt for trouble as they encouraged people to chuck something at the Fenién Bas****s - i had misfortune of having to walk by them. Now a work colleague who is a big NI fan said they the mob had been told not to be caught firing the first dig(stone/firework) but if anything was to happen then they had free reign to do what they want.

The great NI fan base ehh - the best non bigoted lot in europe

thanks Paul... ;)

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Originally Posted by FarBeag

KK, you leave yourself right open all the time with comments like this one. EalingGreen can put up more than a good argument single-hand against the more articulate guys on this forum with his football knowledge .I would not argue with many things he writes even if I wanted to as I would not be able to compete with him. So I would suggest you do the same before you embarrass yourself further.

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It's pretty clear that NI is a mixed team, with a vast majority Loyalist/Unionist support, (Unionist as in union with Britain).
While the OWC board have a 'spot the NI shirt' thread, I doubt if the NI tops on display at aggro corner on Sunday got much of a mention:D

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Originally Posted by philliyk

I think he (P O'Shea)is quite spot on there because on Sunday I had the misfortune of having to work & my workplace is quite close to the Sein Fein/loyalist(loyalist hate mob)protest. The majority of the hate mob were kitted out in either Rangers or mostly NI merchandise. Yes there were loads of union jacks but not one army flag(the whole point of the parade was the army - no)on show & this mob where on the hunt for trouble as they encouraged people to chuck something at the Fenién Bas****s - i had misfortune of having to walk by them. Now a work colleague who is a big NI fan said they the mob had been told not to be caught firing the first dig(stone/firework) but if anything was to happen then they had free reign to do what they want.

The great NI fan base ehh - the best non bigoted lot in europe

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So if that scummy lot you describe were e.g. wearing Burberry caps, you hold the Saville Row Tailors Association responsible? If they were drinking Buckfast, it is the Benedictine Order of Monks who are to blame? Or if they snacked on Sausage Rolls on their way to the riot, it's all the fault of Greggs the Baker?

You really don't seem to get it, do you?

If you want to see NI fans, and how they behave, go to an NI game, then you can say what we are like. I could tell you myself, but I am pretty sure you are so determined to believe otherwise, that you wouldn't take a blind bit of notice.
So instead, I shall quote you what one of your best known and most widely travelled fellow ROI fans, Gspain, has posted on this very forum:
"I been to 2 NI home games in recent years - Azerbaijan 05 and Spain 06. The atmosphere was superb even for Azerbaijan.
The sectarian chants and songs from 1993 (Billy Boys, Sash, FTP) etc are gone .
The other thing that has changed completely is the colour. Many did not wear colours in the late 80's/early 90's and those that did wore red/white and blue. Now virtually everyone is in green"

P.S. I presume from your avatar that you are an ROI fan. Does this mean that in future, I should consider every ROI fan I meet to be a prejudiced, ill-informed idiot, who lacks either the will or the ability (or both) to understand how the big wide world really works? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by SkStu

thanks Paul... ;)

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No worries SkStu!

must admit, wasn't sure that you would actually see the comment ;) :D

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So if that scummy lot you describe were e.g. wearing Burberry caps, you hold the Saville Row Tailors Association responsible? If they were drinking Buckfast, it is the Benedictine Order of Monks who are to blame? Or if they snacked on Sausage Rolls on their way to the riot, it's all the fault of Greggs the Baker?

You really don't seem to get it, do you?

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he isn't saying its NI fans fault, he is saying they are - some at least - NI fans.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

So if that scummy lot you describe were e.g. wearing Burberry caps, you hold the Saville Row Tailors Association responsible? If they were drinking Buckfast, it is the Benedictine Order of Monks who are to blame? Or if they snacked on Sausage Rolls on their way to the riot, it's all the fault of Greggs the ..... etc. etc.

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Your analogy is nonsense. Do you not see there is a difference between wearing a Nike tracksuit and wearing a Manchester United branded Nike tracksuit?

Are you suggesting that those guys that were filmed hanging out of the scaffolding, singing their sectarian songs, don't go to NI matches and if they do go, forget all that sectarian stuff once they go into Windsor Park?

Pull the other one.

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Originally Posted by janeymac

Your analogy is nonsense. Do you not see there is a difference between wearing a Nike tracksuit and wearing a Manchester United branded Nike tracksuit?

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Are you saying that everyone who wears a Man U branded Nike tracksuit is a Man U fan? They might call themselves such, on the basis that they've watched a few games on TV in their living room in Manchester. Or in Belfast. Or New York. Or Seoul. It doesn't mean they've ever actually been to Old Trafford, though.

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Originally Posted by janeymac

Are you suggesting that those guys that were filmed hanging out of the scaffolding, singing their sectarian songs, don't go to NI matches and if they do go, forget all that sectarian stuff once they go into Windsor Park?

Pull the other one.

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I don't whether they do go to NI games or not. More to the point, neither do you.
But what I do know is that I go to NI games and there is no longer any of the sort of behaviour you describe, nor has there been for years.

Or do you not believe Gspain when he posted:
"I been to 2 NI home games in recent years - Azerbaijan 05 and Spain 06. The atmosphere was superb even for Azerbaijan.
The sectarian chants and songs from 1993 (Billy Boys, Sash, FTP) etc are gone .
The other thing that has changed completely is the colour. Many did not wear colours in the late 80's/early 90's and those that did wore red/white and blue. Now virtually everyone is in green"

Time and again, when confronted by people like you, who accuse me and my fellow fans of being bigots, I quote these and similar accounts by objective eyewitnesses. Yet not one of you has the basic honesty even to acknowledge it, never mind accept it.

Then again, as Kenny Archer, chief soccer correspondent of the Irish News, and no natural friend of the NI football team, wrote after one visit to Windsor:
"Those who wish to live in the past and apply outdated labels to all Northern Ireland fans, are the real bigots" (14/09/05)

If the (Burberry) cap fits...:mad:

For the record EG I dont think anyone on this site would entertain the belief that you are a bigot. You are clearly a rational, articulate and passionate NI fan. I think that you do however have a slight blind spot that prevents you seeing the extent to which the NI team has been appropriated as an emblem of hard line unionism and why this alienates potential Catholic / nationalist supporters.

Maybe overtly sectarian chanting and songs have been stamped out, but you are wrong to suggest that the current fans favourites (GSTQ and Rule Brittania) are being sung "ironically." I suggest that they are being sung because they are current fans favourites at Ibrox, and because they are unequivocal assertions of unionist identity. You argue that the antics of loyalist thugs wearing NI shirts is nothing to do with the IFA. Well I think that the IFA could do a great deal more to wrestle back ownership of its brand if it really wants to. They could do what I previously suggested and adopt a neutral anthem and flag. They could ban union flags and banners with overtly unionist and partisan slogans from Windsor Park. They could ban the singing of other obviously partisan / anthems or songs and enforce that with the same zeal that has seemingly been successful in stamping overtly sectarian chants. The reason that they will not do this is because they dont really think it needs to be done. This would alienate and antagonise too many existing NI fans, and anyway what's wrong with "our" flag and "our" anthem, this is Northern Ireland and we are part of the Uk at the end of the day. Well maybe that's fine and dandy, but then accept the fact that most nationalists will never identify with the NI team and some of them will probably not want to play for it either, and dont pretend that the IFA is somehow trailblazing a new and inclusive culture that respects and embraces the nationalist community. It does n't and because of that it is perfectly natural and inevitable that hard line loyalists should rally to the NI team as one of the last fading symbols of supremacy. As the banner said, "Our culture is not a crime" - God bless Sir David!

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Originally Posted by third policeman

For the record EG I dont think anyone on this site would entertain the belief that you are a bigot. You are clearly a rational, articulate and passionate NI fan.

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Thank you. For the record, I am also someone who is sick to the back teeth of being found "guilty by association" by people who have not been to an NI game in years (if ever), but still seem to feel they are entitled to comment, even on the basis of nothing more relevant than watching TV pictures of a gang of spides at a political demonstration, in Belfast City Centre, on a Sunday morning.
Simple question: did you read the account by Gspain of his actual experience of attending Windsor?
If so, have you anything to say on this?

Anyhow, whilst I am waiting for you or any other of our detractors actually to address the fcuking point, I shall amuse myself by Googling some of the following:
1. ROI fans booing Rangers players when they represnt their National teams in Dublin;
2. ROI fans stoning NI fans as they departed Lansdowne the first time the two teams ever met;
3. ROI fans abusing the Israel team and fans over Palestine etc, when they came to Dublin (How did the thread on this forum go? "Today I felt ashamed to be Irish"?);
4. ROI fans singing "anti-Brit" songs when out in Germany;
5. ROI fans wearing Celtic tops and adding "Up the Ra" to TFOA.
That way, when you or somebody else returns with the next spectacularly misplaced piece of "whataboutery", I shall have plenty of ammunition with which to respond in kind.
Of course, my reply is likely severely to p1ss off the overwhelming majority of entirely decent ROI fans who do not engage in such actions, in fact who deplore them roundly.
But hey, why should I worry about them? After all, not only are we (NI) the only team in the entire history of football to have attracted fans whose actions disgrace us, but those are the only kind of fans we have, because we have never even attempted to clean up our act, so proud are we all in our advanced state of bigotry and denial.

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Originally Posted by third policeman

I think that you do however have a slight blind spot that prevents you seeing the extent to which the NI team has been appropriated as an emblem of hard line unionism and why this alienates potential Catholic / nationalist supporters.

Maybe overtly sectarian chanting and songs have been stamped out, but you are wrong to suggest that the current fans favourites (GSTQ and Rule Brittania) are being sung "ironically." I suggest that they are being sung because they are current fans favourites at Ibrox, and because they are unequivocal assertions of unionist identity. You argue that the antics of loyalist thugs wearing NI shirts is nothing to do with the IFA. Well I think that the IFA could do a great deal more to wrestle back ownership of its brand if it really wants to. They could do what I previously suggested and adopt a neutral anthem and flag. They could ban union flags and banners with overtly unionist and partisan slogans from Windsor Park. They could ban the singing of other obviously partisan / anthems or songs and enforce that with the same zeal that has seemingly been successful in stamping overtly sectarian chants. The reason that they will not do this is because they dont really think it needs to be done. This would alienate and antagonise too many existing NI fans, and anyway what's wrong with "our" flag and "our" anthem, this is Northern Ireland and we are part of the Uk at the end of the day. Well maybe that's fine and dandy, but then accept the fact that most nationalists will never identify with the NI team and some of them will probably not want to play for it either, and dont pretend that the IFA is somehow trailblazing a new and inclusive culture that respects and embraces the nationalist community. It does n't and because of that it is perfectly natural and inevitable that hard line loyalists should rally to the NI team as one of the last fading symbols of supremacy. As the banner said, "Our culture is not a crime" - God bless Sir David!

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Same old same old.

Listen, here's the deal. Why don't you attend an NI game, report back on what you experience, then we can debate what needs to be done?

I know it's a long shot, but who knows, it might even get us somewhere. :rolleyes:

P.S. If you're looking out for Neil Lennon at the game, he'll be the wee fat ginger one in midfield, dodging the fireworks from the Rangers fans, as they take a break from barbequing Catholic babies...:rolleyes:

Eg, Ill agree with all of the above points, if you agree with the points raised earlier, howse that for a comrpromise?! Ye(the all inclusive before you get on your high donkey) lads up north love compromise after all :D

Lads you'll bankrupt the OWC fightback fund, I don't know how much longer they can afford to retain the services of EG.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Are you saying that everyone who wears a Man U branded Nike tracksuit is a Man U fan? They might call themselves such, on the basis that they've watched a few games on TV in their living room in Manchester. Or in Belfast. Or New York. Or Seoul. It doesn't mean they've ever actually been to Old Trafford, though.

I don't whether they do go to NI games or not. More to the point, neither do you.
But what I do know is that I go to NI games and there is no longer any of the sort of behaviour you describe, nor has there been for years.

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I'm not making any comment about 'fanship' or degrees of 'fanship'. I'm making a point that if you wear the shirt of Liverpool, Man United, Linfield, Barcelona, Shamrock Rovers, Northern Ireland or the ROI you are attaching yourself to that particular 'tribe'/'family' which has particular values that the shirt wearers identify with (uniform) and by wearing them, they can identify each other when they 'go to war' and not get caught in 'friendly fire'. From what I saw, those guys wearing the NI shirts weren't there to welcome home the troops, but rather use the opportunity to chant sectarian songs, and generally make a nuisance of themselves. The same applies to the Celtic shirt wearing Dublin langers that attacked the 'Love Ulster' parade. They didn't do the image of Celtic any good as it would put off most normal people from ever wanting to go to a match in case you might end up sitting near any of those thugs.

I suppose we should be grateful that they chose not to wear their ROI shirts! Or maybe, they know that most ROI fans wouldn't stand for that kind of carryone, although I'm sure we have a fairly large number of fans who would fall into the sectarian bigot category.

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Or do you not believe Gspain when he posted:
"I been to 2 NI home games in recent years - Azerbaijan 05 and Spain 06. The atmosphere was superb even for Azerbaijan.
The sectarian chants and songs from 1993 (Billy Boys, Sash, FTP) etc are gone .
The other thing that has changed completely is the colour. Many did not wear colours in the late 80's/early 90's and those that did wore red/white and blue. Now virtually everyone is in green"

Time and again, when confronted by people like you, who accuse me and my fellow fans of being bigots, I quote these and similar accounts by objective eyewitnesses. Yet not one of you has the basic honesty even to acknowledge it, never mind accept it.

Then again, as Kenny Archer, chief soccer correspondent of the Irish News, and no natural friend of the NI football team, wrote after one visit to Windsor:
"Those who wish to live in the past and apply outdated labels to all Northern Ireland fans, are the real bigots" (14/09/05)

If the (Burberry) cap fits...:mad:

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What do you mean, people like me? I'm not judging whether you are a bigot or not (though, for the record, I'd second what third policeman has written in his post above).

Most non-unionist*/loyalist people would be put off attending a NI match after viewing that last week.

*There is probably a fair few unionists who would be put off going to Windsor Park to support NI after viewing that!

I think people should go to Windsor Park and make their own mind up.

I think you'd be pleasantly surprised. You'd see a lot more green, a lot more noise and a lot more passion than our home support at the moment. Away from home we are probably on a par noisewise.

The NI fans received a UEFA award in 2006 for their support.

They had a problem with sectarianism and have taken steps and made huge strides to eradicate it. Ironically many of the uberprods now support England.

Picking holes and slagging off the efforts of other fans does nothing to help our reputation either.

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Originally Posted by FarBeag

KK, you leave yourself right open all the time with comments like this one. EalingGreen can put up more than a good argument single-hand against the more articulate guys on this forum with his football knowledge .I would not argue with many things he writes even if I wanted to as I would not be able to compete with him. So I would suggest you do the same before you embarrass yourself further.

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He has plenty of experience :D

For what it's worth, anything I've seen on TV would back GSpain up. It looks like a bunch of lads in green shirts enjoying some of the good results they've been getting.

The 2-2 draw in Cardiff was when I first noticed that there seemed to have been a sea-change.

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Originally Posted by janeymac

From what I saw, those guys wearing the NI shirts weren't there to welcome home the troops, but rather use the opportunity to chant sectarian songs, and generally make a nuisance of themselves.

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I don't know how many of those lowlifes were at the Parade, but even the highest estimate by people whose judgement I trust, was that we are talking maybe a hundred, or two hundred (max).
That was out of an estimated 30,000 "genuine" well-wishers, whose whole behaviour, appearance and demeanour was entirely acceptable. I know for a fact that these 30,000 included many genuine, regular NI fans, some of whom may have worn NI gear, most of whom will not. Anyhow, since they weren't kicking up a row, these people were entirely ignored by the media. Consequently, they were also entirely ignored by our detractors, on this forum and others.

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Originally Posted by janeymac

The same applies to the Celtic shirt wearing Dublin langers that attacked the 'Love Ulster' parade. They didn't do the image of Celtic any good as it would put off most normal people from ever wanting to go to a match in case you might end up sitting near any of those thugs.

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Which is exactly my point. Celtic FC can hardly be blamed for what happened in Dublin, so can someone please tell me what the IFA is supposed to do about spides in NI gear, when they try to cause trouble in Belfast City Centre on a Sunday morning?
Obviously the IFA are responsible for not encouraging such behaviour (they don't) and also for effectively preventing/punishing such behaviour at NI matches (they do).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janeymac

Most non-unionist*/loyalist people would be put off attending a NI match after viewing that last week.

*There is probably a fair few unionists who would be put off going to Windsor Park to support NI after viewing that!

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Of course people, from all backgrounds, will be deterred from attending NI matches if they fear that they will be seated alongside thugs like those.
And I understand that many ordinary people, who gets their information from the media, do think like that.
But there is no excuse for people who know a bit about football generally, to fall for the prejudiced, outdated and often propagandist distortions which are frequently repeated about Windsor etc.
Still less when they are regular followers of teams which themselves suffer occasionally from the antics of a hooligan minority.
And less again when they have the opportunity to go and see for themselves, but decline to do so.
Worst of all is when these people ignore point blank testimony from impeccable sources such as Gspain*, and still trot out the same, tired old "whataboutery".

The facts are simple. We used to have a serious problem, partly because too many of us ignored it. However, we are now addressing that problem on a number of levels, so that the actual experience of following NI has improved almost beyond measure. That is not to say that the problems have been eradicated completely, but they are now no worse than comparable teams; in fact the whole atmosphere is a hell of a sight better than most. (And that's not me saying so, but any number of objective, qualified observers).
Consequently, no-one who may be interested in watching NI need be in any way made to feel threatened or excluded by reason of race, religion, colour or disability etc.
In fact, the only problem is that due to the Block Booking scheme - which played no small part in excluding the scumbags, btw - it is rarely possible for such people actually to get tickets.
Which means the best eyewitnesses to the changes which have occurred in recent years are long-term fans, who stuck with the team through thick and thin and renewed their Bookings accordingly.
And when such people try to tell it like it is, they don't get believed, on the basis: "Ah, well, you would say that, wouldn't you?"

But hey, even as we speak, some spides somewhere in Belfast are probably starting their regular weekend riot/joyride/glue-sniffing early, and what do you know, some of them might even be wearing NI gear?

That's it. Ban the team and close the ground, for it's all the fault of themmuns in the IFA. Again. :eek:


* - Or do none of our critics possess the basic integrity to come out and say: "Fair enough, EG, maybe it's not now anything like it was in the bad old days"? :(

It's true, it's nothing like it was in the bad old days.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by third policeman

For the record EG I dont think anyone on this site would entertain the belief that you are a bigot.

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I don't know who you think you're speaking for, but it isn't for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

...Simple question: did you read the account by Gspain of his actual experience of attending Windsor?
If so, have you anything to say on this?

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I don't need you or GSpain to wax lyrical about the Windsor Park experience. I visited it in June 2003 for the Spain game. The positives were a good continuous support. The negatives were much the same as the previous visit which is this: a culture which does little to make it confortable for 45% of the O6C population to attend. Here they are: GSTQ. GSTQ interrupted by NS. Scarves with a Dutch homosexual on horseback. That's without going into Rangers shirts and Union Rags. While NI were playing a country with probably the highest percentage per head of baptised Catholics in the world, I'd love to see whether the 'friendly' WP experience would be the same had we turned up. Oh yes, friendly neighbourly rivalry not withstanding.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Anyhow, whilst I am waiting for you or any other of our detractors actually to address the fcuking point, I shall amuse myself by Googling some of the following:
1. ROI fans booing Rangers players when they represnt their National teams in Dublin;

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I'd boo anyone connected with any team that has a history of discrimination against the Irish. And before you ask, I couldn't give a f*ck about Celtic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

2. ROI fans stoning NI fans as they departed Lansdowne the first time the two teams ever met;

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LOL. Now I know from a wee Ballymena mate of mine it wasn't all one sided that day. P*ss off and grow up!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

3. ROI fans abusing the Israel team and fans over Palestine etc, when they came to Dublin (How did the thread on this forum go? "Today I felt ashamed to be Irish"?);

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More b*llsh*te!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

4. ROI fans singing "anti-Brit" songs when out in Germany;

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NI fans singing anti-Catholic songs in Cardiff anyone?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3Divl_I-pyg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

5. ROI fans wearing Celtic tops and adding "Up the Ra" to TFOA.

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Yet to hear the one of the 'up the ra' at Ireland games. Maybe youtube have it in the archive. :D:D:rolleyes:

whose Darren NISC?! :D