FF & Green Party in Government

Would you build a motorway through Stonehenge?

In terms of archaelogical significance this whole complex is stonehenge x 10.

They are not building a Motorway over the Hill of Tara, its just a road about a mile away. That is about 12-15 football pitches.

No one has been talking about Tara until a couple of years ago. Sure there is already a road going through it? Why suddenly the interest.

The voters in Meath clearly want the motorway as they voted in FF TDs. The Green Party clearly did not care enough about otherwise would have made it a condition of government to stop it. Its very naive to think that Gormley did not know Dick Roche had or would sign that order. Do you really think FF would try to pull a fast one & risk collapsing the government over the route of a road? All legal challenges have failed.

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Originally Posted by pete

The voters in Meath clearly want the motorway as they voted in FF TDs.

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pete, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't use that kind of argument on Foot.ie. We decided when setting up this forum that we were going to try to have a higher level of debate than elsewhere, but this is a Star-level argument; an insult to your own intelligence, never mind everyone else's. Use it on the Politics forum on Boards if you like, but not here please.

adam

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Originally Posted by pete

They are not building a Motorway over the Hill of Tara, its just a road about a mile away. That is about 12-15 football pitches.

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That statement displays a lack of knowledge about the subject. It is just not about the Hill of Tara, it is a whole complex of archaelogical monuments between the Hill of Tara and the Skryne Hill. Look at the map here:
http://www.nuigalway.ie/faculties_de...y/Tara_M3.html

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Sure there is already a road going through it?

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There is a huge difference between the current road that follows the topography and a motorway complete with interchanges.

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Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Even if we had won two seats, or even four our strategy would not change. Our support comes from what we do in the communities and in the unions. For example, Joe got elected because we led the successful anti-water charges struggle. We organised networks in the communities particularly in Fingal and most of these people remain supporters and many of them help out with election campaigns. The GAMA struggle was an example of how we actually use our Dail seat. Joe used Dail privelege to put the GAMA controversy in the public domain. Yet first and foremost we organised those workers into a strike committee and consistantly assisted their strike. The abolition of the water charges when we had no seats, The Gama victory when we had one and the numerous smaller campaigns we were involved in, were bigger achievements than the Greens have ever had with all their seats. In fact they were bigger achievements than the entire opposition put together.
So if the Greens were serious about building from the ground, they would be actively involved in things like the Save Tara campaign, the Anti War movement, Shell to Sea, instead of making laudable statements at their conference or from Dail seats which they simply turn around and discard once they sniff the wet crotch of power.

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How long ago was the Water Rates protest. IMO the Socialist party have gone backwards. Yes they organised a great campaign for the water rates and Joe Higgins exposed the greed of employers in paying below the going rate to vulnerable workers. These were great achievements yet you don't have a seat in the Dail. It can't all be put down to gerrymandering. Admittedly you are a smaller party than the so called mainstream parties but tell me this where does Clare Daly hold her clinics. I've no doubt that your party would far better represent the working class than the Labour Party but I think some of your more extreme idealogy frightens off people therefore you'll continue pi@@@ng into the wind. The Celtic Tiger has you fcuked.

So I am I right in thinking that this new Government will be made up of FF-Greens-PDs that sounds suspiciously like a rainbow government which FF warned would not be stable and therefore could not rule effectively!

I always thought Joe Higgins was a legend regardless of his politics he seemed to be the only effective opposition in the Dail IMHO.

Also not every one in Ireland has benefitted from the Celtic Tiger if i remember correctly from sociology Ireland has one of the highest percentages of pepole living in poverty amongst western European nations i think it was almost double the average rate of poverty.

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Originally Posted by onceahoop

where does Clare Daly hold her clinics.

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She is very contactable and does a lot of parish pump issues even if they are tedious. On the ideology front, I disagree with that. Look at the election results of the People Before Profit/SWP crowd. Other than Boyd Barrett who did well on the basis of a save the sea front campaign, they fared miserably and they quite deliberately don't mention the "S-Word".

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Originally Posted by SolitudeRed

So I am I right in thinking that this new Government will be made up of FF-Greens-PDs that sounds suspiciously like a rainbow government which FF warned would not be stable and therefore could not rule effectively!

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It's FF & Greens, + Mary Harney in the Iraq, sorry health portfolio.:D

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Originally Posted by mypost

It's FF & Greens, + Mary Harney in the Iraq, sorry health portfolio.:D

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Aye thats right Mary Harney has made a return to the health ministry must be cos she did such a good job in her first stint in that job:rolleyes:

who is goin to be the Tánaiste then? I presume it will be someone from the Greens as they are the second biggest party in the Coalition.

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Originally Posted by SolitudeRed

who is goin to be the Tánaiste then? I presume it will be someone from the Greens as they are the second biggest party in the Coalition.

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Brian Cowen is.

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Originally Posted by SolitudeRed

So I am I right in thinking that this new Government will be made up of FF-Greens-PDs that sounds suspiciously like a rainbow government which FF warned would not be stable and therefore could not rule effectively!

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You missed out the FF gene pool Independent, the FG gene pool Independent, the Socialist gene pool Independent, and the Tom from Father Ted gene pool Independent. How's that for a Dolly Mixture??

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Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

She is very contactable and does a lot of parish pump issues even if they are tedious. On the ideology front, I disagree with that. Look at the election results of the People Before Profit/SWP crowd. Other than Boyd Barrett who did well on the basis of a save the sea front campaign, they fared miserably and they quite deliberately don't mention the "S-Word".

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I lived in Swords from 2001 to 2006 and I can't speak highly enough of Clare Daly and the Socialist Pary in relation to how she dealt with local issues for the Rivervalley Area.

83 Acres of land behind our housing estate were earmarked for redevelopment on the Fingal Development plan. A residential zoning would have had huge adverse implications for all Residents within the area. An overwhelming majority of Residents did not want this development for very legitimate reasons. The already strained infra-structure of the area would not have coped with yet more housing.

All local politicians were lobbyed to represent the Residents wishes and vote to zone the area as "Greenbelt" at the Development Plan Meeting.

Fianna Fail, Fianna Gael and the PD's completely ignored the wishes of the residents - despite many letters, E-Mails etc outlining our concerns - and attempted to usher in a Residential Zoning at all cost.

Clare Daly led the campaign to zone the area green belt and gained the support of Labour, the Greens and some independents.

Only for Clare's total commitment to the cause - we'd have lost. Clare was always contactable and updated the Residents every step of the way. I found her attitude a complete breath of fresh air in contrast to my dealings with Fianna Fail and Fianna Gael. Very glad to say the result was a "green belt" rezoning.

Just to add - I've no political affiliations whatsoever but the above is an honest assessment of what Clare achieved for us.

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Originally Posted by SolitudeRed

Aye thats right Mary Harney has made a return to the health ministry must be cos she did such a good job in her first stint in that job:rolleyes:

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That's the bit that really pees me off. Mary Harney and her party are a national menace. They received a good old fashioned kicking from the electorate at the polls, and still she winds up back in government free to continue with her privatisation of the health service. Grrrr..

As for the Greens. I think they will live to regret this. The fact that the roads programme was taken away from the Dept of Transport before they were allowed near it shows how much influence they'll be permitted to have. Dick Roche signing the go ahead for the motorway before he left office is another. On the other hand, the papers will jump all over them every time they get a chance to portray them as having "sold out". It's already started, with reports that the ministers who cycled to work the other day were followed by gardai in empty state cars (question, how were the cars empty if there were gardai in them, or perhaps state cars come in "Knight Rider" mode now ?) Anway, I've no idea how much truth there is in that story - I think the Greens have denied it - but they had better get used to it, because there's a lot more to come I think.

Not disagreeing with your opinion TonyD, but just to point out that National Roads was already under the Dept of Transport, all that was moved from Environment to Transport last week was responsibility for non-National roads.

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Originally Posted by pete

They are not building a Motorway over the Hill of Tara, its just a road about a mile away. That is about 12-15 football pitches.

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The whole valley is a treasure trove, not just the hill. They are actually going right through a henge that was discovered.

Good discussion on this on Prime Time last night.

I think the media & the opposition will make life very difficult for the Green Party as they will challenge their decisions against their Election policies.

FF could not have arrange this better as they have given the contentious Ministries to their coalition partners. You've got to respect the mastery behind this or else the stupidity of the electorate. The PDs get hammered at the polls, FF bring them back into government & all criticism of Health privatisation directed at the PDs & FF immune to opposition...

:cool: :rolleyes:

John Bowman informs Dempsey that the old Navan rail line was built in 3 years so asks him how long for the new one. Dempsey says 2015. :eek:

It was suggested that rail lines should be built alongside the new motorway which I agree with as that is common in Europe although probably nor for private toll roads.

The Canadian Pacific railway only took 4 years to build (1881-1885)
It links Montreal and Vancouver. At this rate the Navan line will take as long as the Trans Siberian.

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Originally Posted by pete

Good discussion on this on Prime Time last night.

I think the media & the opposition will make life very difficult for the Green Party as they will challenge their decisions against their Election policies.

FF could not have arrange this better as they have given the contentious Ministries to their coalition partners. You've got to respect the mastery behind this or else the stupidity of the electorate. The PDs get hammered at the polls, FF bring them back into government & all criticism of Health privatisation directed at the PDs & FF immune to opposition...


John Bowman informs Dempsey that the old Navan rail line was built in 3 years so asks him how long for the new one. Dempsey says 2015. :eek:

It was suggested that rail lines should be built alongside the new motorway which I agree with as that is common in Europe although probably nor for private toll roads.

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I thought last nights primetime was a real eye-opener in regards to the complete lack of any moral backbone within FF. Dempsey was actually laughing at the entire nod'n'wink nature of the relationship with Bev Flynn and the way they've sh1t on their own people in Mayo to get her back on board.

On the upside -I would totally give Sarah Carey one. Mmmmm-Mmmm. She can take my argument apart anytime that suits her.:cool:

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

I thought last nights primetime was a real eye-opener in regards to the complete lack of any moral backbone within FF.

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I would never defend the incompetence or underhand dealings of the NRA I just raised above that while people may complain about the decision it was unlikely it was important enough to change votes

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

On the upside -I would totally give Sarah Carey one. Mmmmm-Mmmm. She can take my argument apart anytime that suits her.:cool:

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She likes blue shirts too. :p

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Originally Posted by monutdfc

Not disagreeing with your opinion TonyD, but just to point out that National Roads was already under the Dept of Transport, all that was moved from Environment to Transport last week was responsibility for non-National roads.

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Fair enough :o That'll teach me to skim newspaper reports. Anyhow, my basic point still stands.