The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Is this the first time the whole issue has been put as simply as that?

So is this what other clubs can expect if they go over the 65% rule, or is this what other clubs can expect if they try to hide going over the 65% rule?

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I think the ruling on exceeding the 65% rule is fairly clear (not that there was ever any reason for us to worry :)) - relegation, withholding of prize money non participation in Europe (if apprpriate). It is not the case that derry have been found guilty of breaching the 65% rule (as the accounts for this season are not in yet for clubs) instead it is for breach of "licensing requirements" that most mythical of things.
My own take was that the FAI were presumptous in expelling derry and hence the threat to the players to come forward (thus providing the evidence to counter any possible legal challenge).

Basically the licence process has been torn to pieces this season between clubs finding loop holes and FAI fudge/incompetence. Clubs signed up to these rules and there is a responsibility on them to act in accordance with that. Hopefully no club in future puts themselves in a position where the FAI can relegate/expell them. its simple really, stick by the rules you agreed to.

Thinking about it, I suspect Delaney is "playing a blinder" on this one.

For if you go back to first principles, three things are clear.

1. The FAI want DCFC in the LOI;

2. Unless something drastic happens, DCFC (Wellvan) will go bust/get closed down, due to their debts;

3. If 2. happens, it would be v.difficult for the FAI to achieve 1. (i.e. with a "new" DCFC).

Therefore, the FAI has to find a means and a timetable to avoid 2. happening.

Therefore, they need someone to save DCFC. In its present state (Board and debts), no-one is going to step in.

Therefore they have engineered the resignation of the Board.

Next, they need to address the debts. I think we must assume that a large part (most?) of this must be accounted for either by Directors' Loans/Equity and unpaid players' wages.

Re. the former (Directors), that is presumably sorted, since he has them by the balls over dubious accounting/tax/business reporting etc, such that they are not going to seek their investment back.

Re the latter (unpaid wages), the players know that if nothing happens and DCFC/Wellvan go bust, they will not get paid. I suspect Delaney's "price" for offering them an "amnesty" from having their player registrations suspended next season etc, is an undertaking not to pursue their claim for back-pay should DCFC be saved.

This then leaves the remaining creditors of DCFC/Wellvan for Delaney to deal with. Now I have no real idea who these might be, or for how much. But guessing, I'd say these are:
A. Swifts/Linfield/Cliftonville;
B. Other LOI clubs?
C. HMRC
D. Other non-footballing creditors/suppliers etc;


As regards A., he might hope to buy them off with DCFC's 2009 Prize money;
As regards B. (if they exist), Delaney will no doubt have something over them to keep them quiet;
As regards C, coming to some sort of settlement with HRMC may be the price to be paid by whoever replaces McDaid & Co. on the new Board;
As regards D, I'm really guessing here, but if the others can be satisfied, then maybe this group can be persuaded to wait until DCFC are back on their feet next season and living within their means, so that they might be in a position to start repaying some of the debt?

All of which would explain the timing of events. It is possible, I suppose, that the first the FAI heard about these dual contracts etc was a week ago. More likely (imo), that it was before then, but the FAI kept it quiet until now so as to get the 2009 LOI season completed as "cleanly" as possible.

However, once that hurdle was safely negotiated, it is imperative that they act as quickly as possible, for two reasons:
1. Whilst McDaid and his fellow Board Members remained in place etc, it was always open to Swifts/HMRC/A.N.Other to close down the club; and
2. If the old Board did somehow manage to struggle on until the Spring or beyond, any subsequent collapse woul;d screw up the 2010 season.

Which is why (imo), at a time when you might have expected Delaney and the FAI to be pre-occupied with the France games/WC Qualification, and the new Lansdowne etc, they are spending all their time on DCFC at the moment.

Of course, all this is speculation on my part - wildly so, it must be said. And from his most recent comment about going to Derry to establish exactly how much the clubs debts amount to, Delaney may not be confident that he can pull something off (hence his caginess about which Division, if any, DCFC might be playing in).

But even if I've got the details and sequence etc badly wrong, I'm sure something broadly similar is going on as we speak, since one thing is crystal clear: Delaney is "one cute hoor". ;)

Apparently it's just been announced we're liquidating. But starting afresh in division 1. I'm uncomfortable with this turn of events if it turns out to be true.

Listening now - it appears it is administration, no liquidation. Wellvan is gone. New entity to be formed, retaining the DCFC name in the 1st division. Unreal.

EDIT: Also being backed by local business men, although Diamond and McCauley will not sit on the board. Finances will be available for a "sensible, part-time, well-run club"

Massive news.

EDIT 2: Players all gone. Players most likely will not be paid. This utterly STINKS of fudge.

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Originally Posted by pól-dcfc

Apparently it's just been announced we're liquidating. But starting afresh in division 1. I'm uncomfortable with this turn of events if it turns out to be true.

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In that case, either Delaney has had a look at the (real) books and concluded it simply cannot be saved, or I just wasted my time typing my last post! :D

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Originally Posted by pól-dcfc

Listening now - it appears it is administration, no liquidation. Wellvan is gone. New entity to be formed, retaining the DCFC name in the 1st division. Unreal.

EDIT: Also being backed by local business men, although Diamond and McCauley will not sit on the board. Finances will be available for a "sensible, part-time, well-run club"

Massive news.

EDIT 2: Players all gone. Players most likely will not be paid. This utterly STINKS of fudge.

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Do you reckon? Best possible outcome, I would have thought.

This is bloody huge. I am not at all comfortable with this situation.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Do you reckon? Best possible outcome, I would have thought.

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Good outcome for fans. Awful for players in the mouth of Christmas. Awful for Dungannon. Awful for Linfield. Awful for Cliftonville.

Ill feeling in my stomach, but I can't deny that I have some butterflies of excitement about the future down there too.

EDIT: and surely we should be stuck in the A League.

What were the rules the FAI brought in about a club going through the administration route? Something like X amount of points deducted for whatever % of debts paid. I know at the moment Derry are technically not members of the LOI, but administration normally lasts 100 days - will they be members of the LOI by the time that happens. Still loads of questions to be answered.

Also, if there are no Directors of Wellevan at the moment, who decides that the Company goes into administration?

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Originally Posted by pól-dcfc

Good outcome for fans. Awful for players in the mouth of Christmas. Awful for Dungannon. Awful for Linfield. Awful for Cliftonville.

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Unfortunate alright, but I think it was inevitable that they weren't going to get paid anyway. The Dungannon winding up order would have seen to that.

If wellvan is gone then it must be liquidation, with administration it would be the same company coming out surely?

How are ye securing the name?

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Originally Posted by micls

If wellvan is gone then it must be liquidation, with administration it would be the same company coming out surely?

How are ye securing the name?

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God knows. As I said, fudge city Arizona. Looks like it might be bought for a nominal fee from Wellvan or just transferred for free. The interview on the radio wasn't that in depth. But it seemed very positive from a club point of view. God knows what happened in the meetings today. Local business men have committed funds to setting up the new entity. Hopefully the start of accountable and transparent dealings within the club. Delaney also said earlier that he was committed to involving the re-awakened Supporters Trust.

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Originally Posted by pól-dcfc

God knows. As I said, fudge city Arizona. Looks like it might be bought for a nominal fee from Wellvan or just transferred for free. The interview on the radio wasn't that in depth. But it seemed very positive from a club point of view. God knows what happened in the meetings today. Local business men have committed funds to setting up the new entity. Hopefully the start of accountable and transparent dealings within the club. Delaney also said earlier that he was committed to involving the re-awakened Supporters Trust.

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In fairness, it doesnt seem that much of a fudge, in FAI terms. Kildare's implosion left them with a spot to fill so it gives them the opportunity to legitimately let ye apply for the first division rather than a championship.

Ye've obviously been told there wont be a problem with an 'independent' license.

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Originally Posted by micls

In fairness, it doesnt seem that much of a fudge, in FAI terms. Kildare's implosion left them with a spot to fill so it gives them the opportunity to legitimately let ye apply for the first division rather than a championship.

Ye've obviously been told there wont be a problem with an 'independent' license.

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Kildare's implosion leaves a spot to fill in the League, one which Salthill Devon are entitled to first call on...if rules was rules of course and this is the FAI after all.......

On the liquidation/administration issue, I'm only going by what has been said on Radio Foyle. Pure speculation here, but if we went into administration would it be easier to obtain the name, and then let company fall into liquidation after? As I say, pure armchair speculation.

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Originally Posted by micls

In fairness, it doesnt seem that much of a fudge, in FAI terms. Kildare's implosion left them with a spot to fill so it gives them the opportunity to legitimately let ye apply for the first division rather than a championship.

Ye've obviously been told there wont be a problem with an 'independent' license.

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Does that not automatically go to Salthill, with a spot in the premier division the one that need to be filled?

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Originally Posted by Raheen

Kildare's implosion leaves a spot to fill in the League, one which Salthill Devon are entitled to first call on...if rules was rules of course and this is the FAI after all.......

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Even with Salthill taking Kildare's place, there is still a place in the FD as Derry's 'dismissal' from the league left another spot in the League.

Could they not just promote Fingal and not play the play off??

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Originally Posted by blue til i die

Could they not just promote Fingal and not play the play off??

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Why??

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Originally Posted by harps1954

Why??

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Because it would bring it back to a ten team premier, and 12 team div 1?