The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

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11/11/2009, 9:55 AM
Mr A

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longfordian

Would the increased figures not have appeared in their accounts some place, even as a total, if there was tax paid on the correct amount?. Surely the auditor would have to see the P35?.

They haven't lodged accounts since 2007. I guess now we know why.

Stu- there's been nothing to indicate that tax wasn't paid on the whole amount.

But then up until yesterday the Derry board were denying any wrongdoing. I would guess that HMRC will be looking at this very carefully indeed, and cannot help suspecting that there is more to come on this.
11/11/2009, 9:57 AM
Longfordian

They had to provide audited accounts for licensing though. It should have been picked up on then if it was regular wage payments and not cash.
11/11/2009, 10:05 AM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr A

and cannot help suspecting that there is more to come on this.

That's the only thing I'm sure of in all this!

Where's Kev to tell us there's more craziness on the way?
11/11/2009, 10:19 AM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

That's the other thing I don't understand. The money wasn't cash payments, it seems; it was regular wage payments through the bank. If (if) that's the case, and there was a massive extra chanrge for, say, groundswork, how come the extra underage costs at Bohs aren't being investigated? What brought all this about so quickly? Is it a case of the FAI realising Derry as a club were screwed anyway and they wanted to enforce quick regime change so the club could be back for next season?

.............and as has been said before, monthly management accounts are not worth the paper they are written on.
11/11/2009, 10:24 AM
Longfordian

Yes but as I said above you also have to provide full audited accounts each year for licensing. Sounds like the auditor wasn't doing his job or maybe it was being overlooked by the powers that be.
11/11/2009, 10:24 AM
Mr A

The fact that Derry did not simply make the extra payments to players for some extra made up job at the club (as is obviously happening elsewhere) would say to me that the likelihood is that this activity was not just aimed at the 65% rule.

I also would find it worrying from a DCFC point of view that the vice chair has chosen to remain. His pronouncements on DC-Chat would not inspire confidence.
11/11/2009, 10:34 AM
Ash

Here's a blank piece of paper, now can you sign it there at the bottom like a
good chap and we'll print up the details later. Nothing for you to worry about.
11/11/2009, 10:38 AM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr A

The fact that Derry did not simply make the extra payments to players for some extra made up job at the club (as is obviously happening elsewhere) would say to me that the likelihood is that this activity was not just aimed at the 65% rule.

We all know there are no real jobs in Derry, never mind made up ones.
11/11/2009, 11:00 AM
Schumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

On the First Division promotion thing, remember Sporting Fingal jumped the queue last year when joining the First Division. All the interested/ready A League clubs were asked to apply, and the one with the highest marks or best presentation was promoted. I imagine something similar will see Derry back in the First Division next season to fill the gap created by themselves.

While this may well be what happens, there was no A League in 2007 to give an order to which club should be given the first division place so there was no real alternative to a beauty contest to decide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

That's the other thing I don't understand. The money wasn't cash payments, it seems; it was regular wage payments through the bank. If (if) that's the case, and there was a massive extra chanrge for, say, groundswork, how come the extra underage costs at Bohs aren't being investigated? What brought all this about so quickly? Is it a case of the FAI realising Derry as a club were screwed anyway and they wanted to enforce quick regime change so the club could be back for next season?

Could the money have come from undeclared gate receipts and so not have been visible to the FAI at all?
11/11/2009, 11:06 AM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schumi

While this may well be what happens, there was no A League in 2007 to give an order to which club should be given the first division place so there was no real alternative to a beauty contest to decide.

There was in a way; the clubs had all applied when Kilkenny pulled out. Fingal were an A League side when they signed Conan, I remember. It's not strictly the same thing, but it's not completely different either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by schumi

Could the money have come from undeclared gate receipts and so not have been visible to the FAI at all?

But do that in cash, not going through people's bank accounts (and presumably the club's account, if as it seems, it was only the larger payment that was going through).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash

Here's a blank piece of paper, now can you sign it there at the bottom like a
good chap and we'll print up the details later. Nothing for you to worry about.

Maybe they thought Pat McDaid was Brian Clough?
11/11/2009, 11:14 AM
John83

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schumi

Could the money have come from undeclared gate receipts and so not have been visible to the FAI at all?

If it was, the players were, as Pineapple Stu says, being paid partly in cash, which doesn't seem to have been the case. If it was, it would also constitute tax evasion - there's VAT on them there gate receipts, or else there were figures on the Derry accounts the FAI should have been able to tell weren't adding up.
11/11/2009, 11:15 AM
Schumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

There was in a way; the clubs had all applied when Kilkenny pulled out. Fingal were an A League side when they signed Conan, I remember. It's not strictly the same thing, but it's not completely different either.

What I mean is that there's a league table this time so, for example, Castlebar would get the place before Tullamore if both satisfied First Division licensing whereas anyone who had applied for the A League last time was on the same level on the pitch.
11/11/2009, 11:19 AM
pineapple stu

I'd say you could get around that easily enough if you wanted to. The only thing said about promotion from the A League is that you have to finish top three in your group and then win a play-off. If no non-reserve side finishes top three, there's no play-off. I'd say that's enough to allow that a new league side would be selected the same way as Fingal were, TBH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John83

or else there were figures on the Derry accounts the FAI should have been able to tell weren't adding up

That's the point ORA is making when he says management accounts can be useless.
11/11/2009, 11:57 AM
fanatic

does anyone know if the SPC ( Standard Player Contract ) is submitted every year for each player, so that the club can obtain a license ?
11/11/2009, 12:02 PM
Longfordian

Depends on the length of the contract I think but it has to be submitted to register the player initially.
11/11/2009, 12:21 PM
Ronnie

Absolutely no way I believe that the players should get away with this nonsense. The PFAI fought long and hard to get a Standard Palyers Contract, which is based on gross amounts of money. This contract supersedes any other one, so a player saying he sighed a blank form and left it to the club to fill in is a joke! There are 4 parts to the form, one for the club one for the palyer and 2 go to the FAI. So are we supposed to belive that none of them got their copy from Derry city?
11/11/2009, 12:39 PM
OneRedArmy

Its been noted elsewhere, but whatever about the rest of the players, we have two qualified accountants on our playing staff.

You'd think they at least would be wary of signing blank contracts when they had already signed a contract....
11/11/2009, 12:41 PM
rerun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Absolutely no way I believe that the players should get away with this nonsense. The PFAI fought long and hard to get a Standard Palyers Contract, which is based on gross amounts of money. This contract supersedes any other one, so a player saying he sighed a blank form and left it to the club to fill in is a joke! There are 4 parts to the form, one for the club one for the palyer and 2 go to the FAI. So are we supposed to belive that none of them got their copy from Derry city?

I guess maybe the player got a copy with the higher payment and the FAI got the one with the lower. The FAI have to have one copy, I'm assuming that as per any other job where you get a contract the employee gets a contract, so that the club are the only folks who really know whats going on? I hope.
11/11/2009, 12:41 PM
John83

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

That's the point ORA is making when he says management accounts can be useless.

I was thinking audited accounts, which you need for a license. Did Derry not have these last January?
11/11/2009, 12:46 PM
A N Mouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Its been noted elsewhere, but whatever about the rest of the players, we have two qualified accountants on our playing staff.

You'd think they at least would be wary of signing blank contracts when they had already signed a contract....

Then again, what's our former chairman's day job?

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