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In every walk of life you'll come across bosses, colleagues, etc that you don't get on with from time to time. Grown ups tend to plough on and try to make the most of it. And I'm including rubbish jobs at times that you probably hate doing in the first place, Gibson's turning his back on something the rest of us can only dream of. Sorry but I can't see any explanation other than petulant egotism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
Work and International and Your Country, don't go in the same sentence with me....
I don't see how you can represent a football team without working with the manager. Please enlighten me?
I work for my manager for a start. There is usually a level of direction from Top-down.
But if I were representing my country, work sounds something like a chore to me. It would be an honour and I would do whatever is necessary and I am told to do by my manager - just like I would at work.
What did Gibson not do that Trap told him to do? Where are you coming from with this?
We are talking about a manager disrespecting and leveling personal insults at one of their workers. The worker has decided enough is enough and will not work with this manager again.
I'm very sympathetic to Gibson's dissatisfaction, though not his response, but I don't recall personal insults and disrespect. Can you remind me?
I do recall Trap saying he should leave Man U. He was right and I think we all agree that.
It's not on the record as far as I know. Some kind of altercation after the Spain game after Gibson confronted Trap. Trap also apparently grabbed him in training and said he was too fat or something. More was hinted at from the friend of a friend on ybig. This is not just about not playing although it plays a part. Playing Green when he was Trap's 6th choice cm pre-euros took the **** and from the outside looks like someone stamping their authority and proving a point.
So they don't like each other then...
Hmm, if true, that certainly sheds new light on matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
I take it all back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
They just did.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
You said "work with". I work with someone who is on the same level as me. You don't work with someone who is above you or lets say in this case the manager, a manager who has years of experience and wisdom beyond your time on Earth, you work for him/her(should this be s/he?).Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
Some people are more delicate than others. If any of its true Trap certainly shouldn't have called him fat, or grabbed him in training, but surely players should be a bit more thick skinned.
Disagree. You're thinking too much in the hierarchical sense. You can work with anyone no matter what level they are on. It is the act of doing work together.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
This poster also continually said after the euros that Gibson would not return. He was surprised when Trap called him up for Serbia and then Kazakhstan and Germany as he knew that Gibson had no intention of answering the call.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Even if he is correct, I still think Gibson is being a baby. My God like, an old school manager grabbed him... grow a pair! We're a million miles apart on this so I'm happy to agree to never agree.
Out of curiosity, does this friend of a friend know whether Gibson wants to come back post-Trap? Can't see any reason why he wouldn't given that info.
Wee Darn reminds me of General Zod but with more attitude:rolleyes:
http://www.blastr.com/sites/blastr/f...?itok=kbRKjzYT
I haven't seen any silly quotes from Gibson on the matter. Trap has been quite generous in his reference to Gibson and his exile, and Gibson has said little if anything. Trap gave Gibson plenty of chances when he was cráp and fit to play, though when fit to play those games he still made Glenn Whelan look like Billy Whizz. Who knows what happened at the Euros, Trap is no fool and wouldn't be the type to be blackmailed by an aggrieved inflated ego into a selection decision.
No doubt Gibson would have received a string of caps - post Euros, now we have Wes, another technically gifted player, who held his counsel (not least when Green was selected ahead of him), to be given some opportunity.
The issue is with the current manager. He'd been playing for Ireland for 9 years beforehand so I'm not sure why he wouldn't return if a new manager came in.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Another source said this after the euros:
“Right now, Darron doesn’t know where he stands with [Giovanni] Trapattoni. He loves playing for Ireland but the manager doesn’t seem to believe in him.”
Grabbed is maybe the wrong word as it implies aggressiveness. I think it was more a case of someone trying to embarrass someone else by giving them a pinch and intimating that they are too fat. Why would you want to play for someone who showed you such a complete lack of respect.
At least Trap didn't try plucking a hair from the back of Darron's head!
Again people add 2 and 2 together. And get a thousand.
Who really knows? Or even cares about two eejits, apparently as stubborn as each other...
Stephen Ireland started receding from the front back, that could be seen as the major difference between the two.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
He'll announce his availability as soon as Trap is out the door. A middle finger send-off.
Given that most of us live in real life, I'm surprised that the analogies being used in the boss/worker illustration are so far off the mark... Posters say most people just put up with a boss they don't like and just get on with things. No they don't. They continuously look for a new job or boss that will respect them and their value and will leave when they find this. And that is even more so the case with Generation Y'ers. Validate my existence or I'm outta here! What Darron has done is essentially the same reaction as you would see from most of his peers across multiple professions.
Do I think it is the right reaction? No way. Is Darron 100% at fault? No way. As ArdeeBhoy says, him and Trap are both idiots.
Yeah but they stick it out until they do find it, that's the point really. Obviously in Gibson's case this would have been sticking it out until the 74 year old Trap inevitably leaves himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
The worker-boss analogy doesn't work on any level.
Lots of people don't like their boss but they like their job more, or they like the money/prestige/whatever. Playing for your country is a voluntary activity so the only thing keeping him there is his pride in playing for his country. If the sources are correct, Gibson is more concerned with being told he's great than playing for his country. Which is fine - a lot of players take very little pride in representing their nation and there are plenty of players, like Hoolahan, who are willing to take the knocks in the hope of one day taking their chance.
If you take it to maslows hierarchy of needs, we work solely for physiological needs first and foremost, we provide for ourselves, shelter and security by working and getting paid for the work. Our money is what gives us this, we put up with what we have to. That doesn't mean we don't ignore or look for other work necessarily but we put up with what we have to, to secure our most basic needs. Darron does this playing for Everton. Take the example of playing for your country, rightly pointed out CD it is a voluntary act, and is the pride in playing for country, representing your country,is the love of your country great enough as the most basic physiological need? Probably not, but it should be close. There aren't any real higher accolades in life an individual can achieve. Even if that was solely for the adornation of ones people.
Maybe we on here, or me just have this sense of patriotism that others don't have, least of all some of our footballers.
Paul O'Shea busting out the organisational theory. Can anybody top that? :D
Just looking at the 5 blocks in the pyramid there it looks all wrong, but that was definitely how I learnt it. :D
Actually wiki as always is mis-leading :D " In the absence of economic safety – due to economic crisis and lack of work opportunities – these safety needs manifest themselves in ways such as a preference for job security"...
You are ridiculous. Why do you feel the need to use childish names 'prissy little bitch' and make up superfluous baseless nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Gibson showed plenty of pride playing for his country from 2003-2012. I don't remember him kicking up a fuss or demanding to start games during that time. He was also surrounded be abuse from our wee friends as well for doing so.
Hoolahan...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I don't think I can top it but maybe if we see a professional footballer as a 'product' instead of a person with physio and psychological needs.
Footballer Life Cycle.
http://symkt.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/plc1.gif
Introduction - Darron was a raw talent intent on escaping the clutches of Northern Ireland for his beloved Republic.
Growth - Good old Trap gave him some competitive international appearances even though we rarely saw him for Man Utd.
Maturity - He finally realised he was never going to break into the United side and left for first team football at Everton.
Decline - After a couple of months of first team football Darron got ideas above his station. An international exile coincided with weight gain and hair loss.
Another mature, well-reasoned post.
I'm not making up anything. I'm making a judgement based solely on the sources you've quoted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
Surrounded by abuse... at his home in Manchester? And the notoriously Unionist city of Derry? He got a bit of abuse on Twitter but every interview he's given suggest he wasn't remotely bothered by it. I don't remember him demanding to start games, but then again I don't remember him ever making a compelling case when he was given an opportunity.Quote:
Gibson showed plenty of pride playing for his country from 2003-2012. I don't remember him kicking up a fuss or demanding to start games during that time. He was also surrounded be abuse from our wee friends as well for doing so.
Hoolahan...
Strangely enough, that mirrors the DeLorean life cycle.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
You said "Gibson is more concerned with being told he's great than playing for his country.". This is unadulterated bs. Hide behind saying your judgement has led you to say that all you want. You've made it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
There is a club called Manchester United that has a few fans of a certain persuasion. Gibson once played for this club. You would even have caught a whiff of it now and again from certain Everton supporters as well. Then there is that lovely team that sings songs such as 'if you hate Darron Gibson clap your hands'. Gibson is guaranteed to receive abuse of these people forever whether it be to himself directly or not. It surrounds his public identity.
The 'Decline' part is uncanny.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Some poetic license at work. My point was that he's more concerned with his own status within the squad than the opportunity to continue representing his country. He feels he has been personally slighted, assuming your sources are correct, and to him it is more important to make a stand over that than to continue wearing the green shirt as similarly overlooked squad members have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
I'm sure there are a few fans of those clubs of that persuasion. I'm just sceptical that he's found himself surrounded by these people in the calm environs of rural Cheshire (or wherever he lives, perhaps your source knows). I doubt he's been to many Northern Ireland games in recent years either. I'm sure he gets the odd bit of misdirected abuse but I wouldn't have him down as a martyr either.Quote:
There is a club called Manchester United that has a few fans of a certain persuasion. Gibson once played for this club. You would even have caught a whiff of it now and again from certain Everton supporters as well. Then there is that lovely team that sings songs such as 'if you hate Darron Gibson clap your hands'. Gibson is guaranteed to receive abuse of these people forever whether it be to himself directly or not. It surrounds his public identity.
[QUOTE=Charlie Darwin;1690329]Some poetic license at work. My point was that he's more concerned with his own status within the squad than the opportunity to continue representing his country. He feels he has been personally slighted, assuming your sources are correct, and to him it is more important to make a stand over that than to continue wearing the green shirt as similarly overlooked squad members have.
Well none of us actually know what Gibson thinks, but his treatment during the Euros was shocking and exposed Trap at his most obdurate and capricious. Not picking our most in-form midfielder during a succession of games where we were overrun and outplayed suggests that the manager is either completely deranged or trying to make some point at Gibson's expense. Not picking Gibson was not a slight against Gibson it was an act of wanton arrogance and disregard for the team, the supporters and the nation. Under these circumstances I can well understand Gibson's decision. It's the same reason that many many fans have stopped going to games, and they haven't been slighted either.
"A source" seems to know what he's thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
No. Our most in-form midfielder was Andrews. Then Hoolahan and McCarthy, who weren't in the squad. Then, finally, Gibson. I personally think he should have played ahead of Whelan and come on instead of Green, but I don't think it warrants the sort of hysterical reaction you've displayed above. It was a fairly marginal call and Gibson lost out due to his relative shortage of experience and his patchy record in terms of actually turning up for friendlies where the likes of Green and Whelan have become more familiar with the systems and what is expected of them.Quote:
Not picking our most in-form midfielder during a succession of games where we were overrun and outplayed suggests that the manager is either completely deranged or trying to make some point at Gibson's expense. Not picking Gibson was not a slight against Gibson it was an act of wanton arrogance and disregard for the team, the supporters and the nation. Under these circumstances I can well understand Gibson's decision. It's the same reason that many many fans have stopped going to games, and they haven't been slighted either.
The source quote was published by the Derry Journal after the euros. I see no reason to question it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Our most in-form midfielder was someone who was in and out of the West Brom team. Followed by someone in and out of the Norwich team. Right. McCarthy and Gibson have been the two best Irish CM for the last 18 months. No contest really.
Green had been playing RB for Derby and was Trap's 6th choice CM going into the euros yet he somehow managed to usurp Gibson for the sub role. Something went badly wrong. The noise before the euros was that Gibson might break into the starting lineup and that Trap had been spending a lot of one-on-one time with him. Gibson played the full 90 vs. Bosnia and 25 vs. Hungary. Green got 5 vs. Hungary following his late call up. Gibson has more caps than Green, PL and CL experience. Marginal call...
Andrews wasn't in and out of anything - he played every game. Hoolahan was rotated depending on what tactics Lambert was using. Gibson was playing well for his new club. Green was not playing right back for anybody. He didn't "usurp" Gibson for "the sub role" - he was brought on for the final ten minutes in a match we were losing 3-0, presumably for his energy and relative quickness compared to other options in the middle.