AIPL plans revealed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jinxy lilywhite

I don't think so.
1) Would UEFA let one league have two representatives? or

---

Firstly - it would be one league, not one FA. It's FA's that nominate Euro teams. Anyway the English Premiership is one league that currently has 4 CL teams nominated form it. Where's the problem ?

Secondly - see my earlier example re Cardiff representing England and Llanelli representing Wales. Both are memebrs of the Welsh FA, yet both could be nominated for the Champions League by different associations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jinxy lilywhite

2) Two National teams?

---

Why wouldn't they allow the 2 national teams stay on ? There'd still be two separate leagues, one for each.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jinxy lilywhite

3) Wouldn't this not mean an amalgamation of the IFA and the FAI?

---

As above - no. Why would it ? :confused:

DCFCSteve you are destroying them with fact not fiction like they use.:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GavinZac

The root cause of problems in the league is the perception held by the general public that the league is awful crap populated by builders and postmen and plasterers and generally not proper footballers or clubs. This has lead to a lack of support, which has lead to a lack of finances, which has lead to a lack of quality facilities and coaching.

---

Bingo.

This blindingly obvious point seems to have completely skipped-by the FAI/IFA - not to mention many posters on here.

And how do you tackle this core problem ? By marketing the hell out of the league to give it a new image.

Is the FAI capable of this ? Absolutely not. If they were they'd have done it already (or at leats shown some signs of recognition of the problem). They're a bunch of blazers with no understanding of, or experience in, marketing - hence why they think the way to save our league is to reduce the size of the premier division by two :o A footballing answer to a marketing/'branding' problem, when instead what we need is a marketing answer.

For so long as this absurdity remains the case, our league is destined to wallow in ongoing mediocrity...

And where in the proposal does Drury give even the broadest of outlines of how he's going to market the league?

Or even give examples of the marketing the company has done in the area (they allude to some of it)

Like 95% of posts on here his proposals is a mixtures of wishes, ill informed half truths, lies, contradictory opinions, vague bull**** and tons and tons of ego. He'd have had the fulls et if he wrote a giant bug ****ing FACT!!! at the end of it.

I'll repeat, I'm all for a professional AIL, but this proposal is ridiculous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Bingo.

This blindingly obvious point seems to have completely skipped-by the FAI/IFA - not to mention many posters on here.

And how do you tackle this core problem ? By marketing the hell out of the league to give it a new image.

Is the FAI capable of this ? Absolutely not. If they were they'd have done it already (or at leats shown some signs of recognition of the problem). They're a bunch of blazers with no understanding of, or experience in, marketing - hence why they think the way to save our league is to reduce the size of the premier division by two :o A footballing answer to a marketing/'branding' problem, when instead what we need is a marketing answer.

---

Absolutely, a core problem is the marketing of the league, and the resultant image of the league.
But it must be admitted that the eL contributes to this problem by having teams that spend money they don't have to make it big, then come crashing down to earth. This is at least part of the reason the public have the perception they do of the league. eL teams have a history of focusing on the short-term, without taking the worst-case scenarion into account.

From what I've seen of these proposals, little will be done to stop this from happening. I'd say that greater prize money, combined with no relegarion for 2 years, will encourage even more teams to try and spend big to get the prize money.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dodge

And where in the proposal does Drury give even the broadest of outlines of how he's going to market the league?

Or even give examples of the marketing the company has done in the area (they allude to some of it)

Like 95% of posts on here his proposals is a mixtures of wishes, ill informed half truths, lies, contradictory opinions, vague bull**** and tons and tons of ego. He'd have had the fulls et if he wrote a giant bug ****ing FACT!!! at the end of it.

I'll repeat, I'm all for a professional AIL, but this proposal is ridiculous.

---

But last season's ten year plan didn't work. We need a new ten year plan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

How would it be any different than if Cardiff City won the English Premeirship and entered the CL along with, say Llanelli ? Ignoring the fact England has 4 CL slots - that would see two from Wales (Cardiff are still affiliated to the Welsh FA).

---

With Cardiff, you are talking about the FA voluntarily agreeing one of its UEFA Cup places may to go to a Welsh club in the once-in-140 years event that one may actually win the FA Cup.
That is somewhat different from a private company suddenly deciding that it is within their gift to allocate two Champions League places, whether the FAI and IFA have agreed, or not (and they haven't, btw). This is esp so when there is a decent chance that both CL places, formerly allocated one each to two separate countries, might now regularly both be "won" by teams from just one of those countries. Drury is signing cheques he can't honour, methinks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Firstly - DCFC have never actually left the IFA. We are still fully paid-up memebrs to this day (it may even be a UEFA stipulation that ou remain paid-up to your own jurisdiction, even if you play in another one). It was the Irish league we resigned from. We could arguably enter the Irish Cup next seaosn if we wanted to anyway.

Secondly, you know as much about thios scheme as everyone else. The plan appears to nbe that we would play in the Irish Cup, which no City fans are interested in TBH. regardless - I would be more worried about the technical outcome if we were to be relegated form the AIPL - would we then find ourselves pushed back into the Irish league ? :eek:

---

If I were the cynical type, I might consider that the (mysterious) "balancing mechanism" whereby the AIPL doesn't become too top heavy in favour of the LOI (or even IL) might be Derry City's "Get out of jail free card". That is, if they somehow did finish bottom of the new League, they could argue that they are a "Northern" club, so as to keep the North-South composition of the League more in balance. Hence the offer to play in the Irish Cup (their FAI Cup place not being that big a sacrifice).
And if I were especially cynical, this "re-positioning" as an NI club might not be entirely unconnected with the need for (Stormont) Government grant-aid to redevelop the Brandywell?
After all, the new DCAL minister is a football fan and Derryman, to boot, but would appreciate some bargaining power with his party if he is going to persuade Robinson & Dodds to hand over a big wedge to a "Southern" team...
Might it be argued that they would now, indeed, be an NI club again, on the basis that they:
1. Are still IFA Members, as you point out;
2. Are no longer pointedly scorning the IL in favour of the LOI (the AIPL would supercede both, and if it's good enough for Linfield and the Glens...);
3. Are back in the Irish Cup.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Even for you, that's week EG..... :o

---

I was rather proud of it, actually. Oh well, at least I managed to spell it correctly...;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The percentage figure may seem arbitary, but there is no reason to suppose an AIPL won't increase crowds substantially. For one simple reason. Football in Ireland - north and south - has never been properly packaged/marketed. Ever. Platinum One are a professional sports marketing company. If anyone can make an inherently decent sports product more appealing to the masses, then it's a professional and successful sports marketing company. It wouyld be absurd to just c0ck your nose and say 'sure look at them professional sporst marketing fools. we know better than them - they haven't a hope in hell of increasing gates dramatically'. I believe they do. Because they know what they're doing when it comes to marketing sport, and because no-one else on this island has ever done it before.

---

A sustained crowd increase of, say, 25% would be "substantial", an increase of 150% would be a bloody miracle!
You have a touching faith in the power of Marketing (or "spin", as we more cynical types prefer to call it). Though I'll give you one thing, this platinum crowd are certainly very good at marketing themselves...
And have you ever wondered why no other Group has bothered investing their own money into marketing football in Ireland before now? Have they all been missing a trick?
And how much of their OWN money is platinum investing in this venture? Fair enough, they are investing their time and expertise, but from what I've seen, in the world of sports marketing, they're hardly a big player like Mark McCormick etc.
Might it be more a case of their being unable to break into the "First Division" of football markets (England, Spain, Italy, Germany etc) and so are having to scratch around in the 2nd Division (e.g. Scotland) or even 3rd Division (Ireland), to pick up business?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Conversely - if Glens left the IL for the AIPL, Linfield would most likely follow shortly afterwards for exactly the same reasons you mention. Partiularlty if there was talk of Cliftonville or aother IL club taking the place currently left for them at the AIPL table. And the Glens have much more to benefit from being first to jump.

---

Ah, the old "Divide and Rule" tactic. Linfield and the Glens will never think of that one, will they? After all, they're only IL dunderheads from Belfast, nowhere nearly so cute as those Big City LOI boys from Derry...;)
Get real. Everyone, including the two clubs themselves, knows that without both LFC and the Glens, this whole project will be deader than a very dead thing indeed. Do you honestly think anyone will be able to play e.g. Cliftonville off against either?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Not much has changed since Genesis because Irish football - north and south - is run by people with no marketing knowledge or experience, let alone sports marketign experience. Our league has a serious image problem. Can someone please explain to me exactly how that can be changed without serious marketing to re-position it/effectively brainwash people. Did Skoda shake off their old sh!t image by just putting new wheels on and limiting engine size by 65% ? Did they hell - they pumped a tonne of money into telling the world they'd changed. And it worked. Without serious professional marketing we will always be seen as a dog's arse league. the FAI/IFA don't even see the need to do this - let alone have the ability to do it. That is the real constraint to the appeal of our league and the size of our crowds - not defeatist attitudes that assumes we're stuck with what we have now, because no-one knows how to make it any bigger.

---

I have to say, I never had you down for a teary-eyed dreamer, Steve.
And your Skoda analogy is bunkum. Before WWII, Czechoslavkia had a very good reputation for engineering and manufacturing, with Skoda particularly noted for producing good cars.
This all went to Hell after the Communist takeover, which dragged Skoda down with it.
However, Skoda's recent revival had nothing to do with mere Marketing, rather it had all to do with the fall of the Berlin Wall allowing VW to come in in 1991 and invest millions in introducing the latest German car-making technology into Skoda's factories. Combined with the Czech engineering tradition at low wages, the real reason they are so successful is because the basic product is 1,000 x times better than the crap they previously turned out, at lower prices than their (Western) competitors.
The role of Marketing was merely one of pointing out the improvements and letting word of mouth from new purchasers to do the rest.
Now of course the marketing of the existing Irish football "product" could be much better, and if it were, would produce greater interest from punters, both turnstile and TV.
But if you seriously believe that Platinum can produce the sort of "Pie -in-the-Sky" figures such as 150% which they are promising, without a substantial improvement in the basic "product" to more nearly match that of competitors e.g. in England and Scotland, then you are deluding yourself.
The Texan phrase "All Hat and no Cattle" comes to mind. Then again, the Yanks always did know how to spot a Snake-Oil Salesman: sure didn't they invent "Marketing"? ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Bingo.
when instead what we need is a marketing answer.

---

Great. That avoids the (inconvenient) need for difficult answers like better grounds, better players and better football. Better weather would be nice as well, so I trust the Marketing People will arrange for the seasons to be reversed, so that we get more sunshine in the Winter. Perhaps they're planning to line Fintan Drury up on the Equator and point his arse towards Ireland? That should do the trick.

This whole thing is becoming ever more like that priceless episode of the Simpsons, when the Monorail Company came to town...

I've said this before and been shouted down, but if you want lessons in how to revive a league that was percevied as a joke league populated by plumbers, postmen, has beens & never will be's then look at the Australian league.
I was there before the A league was launched and South Melbourne (then Melbournes sole representative in the National League) were playing to crowds of a few (3-5) thousand in the old NSL, within 2 years Melbourne Victory played to 50,000 against Sydney at the Telstra Dome.
There has been some old teams which made the transition from the old NSL to the new A league and there have been some new franchises like Melbourne but it has taken soccer from a joke sport to getting crowds of 50k+ for big games and an average of 14,610 (Melbourne averaged 26,000 last season) 3 clubs had highest regular season attendances of over 30k.
There are similarities with the AFL/GAA competition but I think the things that the A League did which made it work were
- A complete rebranding, sexing up the league, a deal with Fox (Australia's sky) gave it more credence as a proper sport, previously it was on ABC which is the state/public broadcaster. The marketed it in the same manner as AFL/NRL/SUPER 14, basically stating that this was a product of similar standard.
- Australians aren't idiots and they watch a lot of European football, there are large Croat/Italian/Greek communitie as well as the UK & Irish ex-pats they know the difference between premier league/serie A and the A league BUT what the A league have done well is to bring back Australian players coming to the end of their careers in the Europe added to the one prestige signing allowed per club, it means there is some star power added to the production of young talent and you have a more marketable product.
- The production of young talent is essential to the long term success but the star names are essential to the short term success, the best young players will all still eventually move to Europe but if they get 2/3 years out of them before they move and the same at the end of their careers I think they will be satisfied.

I remember Roddy Doyle talking many moons ago about his idea of buying a LOI club (I think it was Pat's?) and bringing the likes of Moran & Aldo back to play I realise there aren't that many "Star" names from recent years of Irish football that you could bring back but I think it's a good idea to draw the non-initiated fan off their barstool.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by endabob1

I remember Roddy Doyle talking many moons ago about his idea of buying a LOI club (I think it was Pat's?) and bringing the likes of Moran & Aldo back to play I realise there aren't that many "Star" names from recent years of Irish football that you could bring back but I think it's a good idea to draw the non-initiated fan off their barstool.

---

So you think the way forward for the league is to go back to what screwed it over in the 70s?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

So you think the way forward for the league is to go back to what screwed it over in the 70s?

---

Bit harsh isnt it?

Bringing back some washed-up ex Premiership player probably would bring in a few new fans, and probably wouldn't hurt the standard of the eL either. As long as clubs aren't spending money they dont have, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by osarusan

Bringing back some washed-up ex Premiership player probably would bring in a few new fans, and probably wouldn't hurt the standard of the eL either. As long as clubs aren't spending money they dont have, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

---

Not entirely sure how they could manage the former without doing the latter, to be honest. Clubs have enough trouble at the moment. Plus the likes of Jason Gavin and Owen Morrison aren't exactly huge draws at present. To generate any interest, you'd have to be looking at the equivalent of George Best, Bobby Charlton, Geoff Hurst, Gordon Banks, Peter Lorimer, etc, all of whom played here, were ineffective and cost their clubs large sums of money.

Do they seriously think they will be allowed to kick out almost half of next seasons premier division without all hell breaking loose.

Was thinking that as well. An August 2009 start means this would have to be the last proper season, with those lucky ones presumably not starting until August (what's the point in dropping out half way through?) and the unlucky ones also not having a league next year if no-one else is around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

So you think the way forward for the league is to go back to what screwed it over in the 70s?

---

you think the world hasn't changed since the 70's, honestly a bit of friction in the middle east & an oil crisis and all of a sudden it's 1977 again, next thing you know Dr Who will be back on tv :D

The proposals are rubbish, the only bright point if this happened would be seeing Dundalk fans spontaneously combust when the news is announced (if their over-reaction on this thread is anything to go by). I wouldn't be happy with Limerick being included at present by the way (certainly we won't have our house fully in order by this time next year I'd imagine), and would only accept it if they started throwing in clubs in similar financial states (Sligo, Galway etc.), anyway on to this

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GavinZac

I think the idea is that with a proper scheme for generating them funds, and probably with a generous donation from Platinum One, Limerick FC and Galway Utd would not be the jokes they are now. Its a bit unfair to class them together, also. Galway may be struggling with mediocre crowds and tight finances but they've been rooted to the foot of the table so long that their attendances really aren't that poor - they're matching St Pats at the top.

Limerick on the other hand don't have a stadium, don't have many fans

---

We rent a stadium, Galway do likewise don't they? We average 650 a match, I'd like to see Galway and Cork do likewise after so many years in the wilderness. If we were 'promoted' we'd pull in the same level of fans as Galway easily. The Limerick sporting public are even more fickle than the rest of Ireland when it comes to only backing success, but they will start supporting the club if the club starts performing on the pitch. You also forget that we actually have quite a sizeable amount of people who remember when Limerick were one of the better clubs in Ireland, and having a background of success helps rebuild that solid fanbase that every club needs, I think this is one thing that the Galway board didn't reckon with when drawing up their prospective attendance targets.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GavinZac

and don't exactly put much into the 'match day experience' beyond apologising afterward when you've been spit at

---

You forgot to add in that this happened after some of Cork's buffoons antagonized our buffoons before, during and after the game. Still though, no need for facts when Gavin's painting his thought process for us is there? Sorry we only apologised for it afterwards too Gav, we really should have started a Maddy McCann style newspaper appeal to catch these thugs too :rolleyes:

Whatever way you look at it there is little or no future for at least half the first division clubs (it is fairly obvious who they are without picking on them). Even the top Premier division clubs cannot continue on current path so something has to change.

In particular I think the first division clubs need to assess what their future ambitions are. After that it is easy to assess if that matches the remainder of the LOI.

I was wondering how the LOI would operate if this AIL starts in the middle of the LOI season.

Will the participents of the AIL from the LOI just have a prolonged close season?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

I was wondering how the LOI would operate if this AIL starts in the middle of the LOI season.

Will the participents of the AIL from the LOI just have a prolonged close season?

---

With players on 52 week contracts? They'd all be broke before the league even started!