Cascarino on O'Leary: "I just don't like him"

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03/08/2006, 4:40 PM
wws

[QUOTE=NeilMcD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wws

Leeds are a top English Club and City for football. anyone in English football will tell you that even their greatest rivals.

O Leary walked out on his country to go on holidays rather than play in the only senior tournament that Ireland have ever won.[/QUO

I would rather use the facts of the situation like league records to back up my argument but each to their own I suppose.

So O leary didn't walk out on Ireland???!??!
03/08/2006, 4:44 PM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

To be fair to O'Leary that's not his responsibility as a manager. That's his employers' responsibility. All managers look for money to spend - it's up to the Board to give the money or to say no. He would have been the first manager in history to say "No thanks. I don't want the money to spend"

That's a fair enough point, Ridsdale is held responsible for the financial mess, the �120m figure is anyway an exaggeration, more like �60m spending, net.
But imo it did get to the stage where there was neither rhyme nor reason to his signings. Into an already bloated unbalanced squad, he signs an off form Fowler and an average Johnson for ridiculuos money.
At the end O'Leary was just as bankrupt a manager as the club was financially.
Maybe O'Leary is an absolute self absorbed moron as in can't understand problems outside his own radar, even when the financial situation was explained repeatedly in graphic detail he throws a public fit over the proposed sale of Ferdinand and maybe Viduka for very good money.Then he gets the sack.
03/08/2006, 4:45 PM
NeilMcD

I never said he did not or did not, I dont know the private conversations between O Leary and Charlton and I dont have an opinion on that case.

In addition I prove to you with hards facts that Leeds are not naturally a top 6 club with historic records rather than potential i.e size of the city etc. So what happens you now move onto the Charlton O Leary feud something which I have no comment to make on and is not part of the discussion regarding O Leary as a manager of Leeds and Aston Villa.
03/08/2006, 4:51 PM
wws

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

I never said he did not or did not, I dont know the private conversations between O Leary and Charlton and I dont have an opinion on that case.

In addition I prove to you with hards facts that Leeds are not naturally a top 6 club with historic records rather than potential i.e size of the city etc. So what happens you now move onto the Charlton O Leary feud something which I have no comment to make on and is not part of the discussion regarding O Leary as a manager of Leeds and Aston Villa.

actually the only hard facts you quoted placed Leeds as one of the top sides - joint top with a few others (one mentioned, Huddersfield would not be on a par)
03/08/2006, 4:56 PM
NeilMcD

No that is only if you take League titles as your only judge. Whereas on a consistant basis they have finished inside the top 6 of the top league about %15 of the time. Also they have spent 30% of their time outside the top division. Roughly 18% of their top 6 finishes have come due to David O leary. I
03/08/2006, 4:57 PM
NeilMcD

Quote:

Originally Posted by wws

actually the only hard facts you quoted placed Leeds as one of the top sides - joint top with a few others (one mentioned, Huddersfield would not be on a par)

Sorry Leeds are not joint top with anybody.

Liverpool are top on their own with 18 League titles

Man Utd are 2nd

Arsenal are 3rd.
03/08/2006, 5:00 PM
wws

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

No that is only if you take League titles as your only judge. Whereas on a consistant basis they have finished inside the top 6 of the top league about %15 of the time. Also they have spent 30% of their time outside the top division. Roughly 18% of their top 6 finishes have come due to David O leary. I

who probably had roughly 99% of their all time playing budget.
03/08/2006, 5:04 PM
NeilMcD

Where are you getting the figure off 99% from then.
03/08/2006, 5:11 PM
Emmet

Sorry - I'm getting confused ... why are we talking about percentages? And what does it have to do with O'Leary?
03/08/2006, 5:15 PM
NeilMcD

Just showing that Leeds are not a club with a tradition of finishing in the top 6 on a consistant basis with the exceptions of the Revie Era and the O Leary reign.
03/08/2006, 5:20 PM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

I never said he did not or did not, I dont know the private conversations between O Leary and Charlton and I dont have an opinion on that case.

Neil you should be better informed than that.
Both characters gave their account of the phonecalls, it's public knowledge, it's been well documented.
It's only a matter of opinion on how you analyse the affair.
03/08/2006, 5:24 PM
Emmet

Ok ... I'm with you now!

Just out of interest, you're saying that the money that is spent on a team should bear no relation to judging how good its manager is. Personally, I've always believed that you need to measure how 'good' a manager / team is by weighing up the number of trophies they win against the amount of money spent on that team. Based on that formula you can see why I think little of O'Leary as a manager because he spent a collossal amount (which was admittedly sanctioned by someone else but it meant he had some very talented players at his disposal) and yet he did not win anything.

Where do you stand on Mourinho? If he was the manager of a club like Wigan or Sunderland, do you think he would win any trophies with them?
03/08/2006, 5:24 PM
NeilMcD

Sorry I can be informed in relation to what I choose to be informed about. I am not going to put myself on the line and comment on an issue that I do not have strong views upon and one which I would not be as informed about as maybe I should be to post an opinion on it. That is my choice, one does not have to hold an opinion on every aspect of Irish football.
03/08/2006, 5:28 PM
NeilMcD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmet

Ok ... I'm with you now!

Just out of interest, you're saying that the money that is spent on a team should bear no relation to judging how good its manager is. Personally, I've always believed that you need to measure how 'good' a manager / team is by weighing up the number of trophies they win against the amount of money spent on that team. Based on that formula you can see why I think little of O'Leary as a manager because he spent a collossal amount (which was admittedly sanctioned by someone else but it meant he had some very talented players at his disposal) and yet he did not win anything.

Where do you stand on Mourinho? If he was the manager of a club like Wigan or Sunderland, do you think he would win any trophies with them?

Well also which is better finishing 4 or winning the FA Cup. Also I never said it should bear no relation, check my posts I did not say that. Also I tried to explain in this case that the fees were not O Learys doing, he picked the players and the 2 chairman decided upon the fees and the wages. A lot of the high fees and wages were to do with Risdales inability to negotiate properly. O Leary is not blameless in the episode and he does have faults and he is not a great manager. But he is not a terrible manager either and he is not the main culprit of the reason leeds have gone down a division or ended up in the state they did.

Mourinhio won the European Cup with Porto hardly a rich club in European terms and he did well with lower league clubs in Portugal so I think that he is a manager who can get success at most levels of the game. I do not think Sunderland are in a position to be winning trophies at the moment with the exception of the League Championship.
03/08/2006, 5:34 PM
Emmet

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

I just managers on their achievements as money is not not always a good barometer ...

What did you mean by this then?
03/08/2006, 5:37 PM
NeilMcD

I meant what it says, it is not always a good baromter sometimes it is and sometimes it is not. There are other circumstances what you must look into rather than using a simplisic barometer of money versus cups on ever occassion.
03/08/2006, 5:46 PM
Emmet

It's simplistic to expect manager's to be held accountable based on the amount of money they have spent? :confused: :confused:
03/08/2006, 5:53 PM
geysir

http://foot.ie/attachment.php?attach...1&d=1154627509
03/08/2006, 7:58 PM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Sorry I can be informed in relation to what I choose to be informed about. I am not going to put myself on the line and comment on an issue that I do not have strong views upon and one which I would not be as informed about as maybe I should be to post an opinion on it. That is my choice, one does not have to hold an opinion on every aspect of Irish football.

If you choose to have whatever opinions on O'Leary that's fair enough. It lessens the credibility of those opinions if you choose not be informed as to have even a basic opinion on one of the most important events in O"Leary's connection with the Irish team and the then team manager. An event with unprecedented ramifications for a player of such standing, casting O"Leary into the shadows for years, a player of undoubted skill and ability cast out of the squad by the then highly regarded manager.
Some people have a view that Jack overreacted, that Jack treated him harshly, others have a view that Jack was setting the bar for standards of committment, others like me have the opinion that it was a bit of everything but Jack just didn't like something about O'Leary.
04/08/2006, 8:41 AM
OwlsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Just showing that Leeds are not a club with a tradition of finishing in the top 6 on a consistant basis with the exceptions of the Revie Era and the O Leary reign.

They're not even the biggest club in Yorkshire :p

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