Referendum to be held on European fiscal compact

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Originally Posted by John83

As I understand it, if we don't get 12 ratificiations, it's dead. If we get 12 or more, those countries which ratified it are bound by it and the others are not. 2 speed Europe is the buzzword, I think.

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Correct. But it will get the necessary and more ratifications. Even those dithering will eventually ratify it.

Re here: France are looking for additions for themselves, but we are looking to ratify it as is stands. So the current provisions will only apply to those who ratified them at the time. So basically one rule for some, and another for others.

I find it laughable that those who appealed most strenously for a vote earlier in the year, now want it delayed. But what is not laughable is that the Government's selling point i.e. ESM funding is rather sad. The whole point of the cuts and taxes is to meet our commitments, and not be relying on bailouts and handouts. The people of Greece, Spain, France, and soon inevitably Germany have given the finger to austerity programmes, but our public seem to roll over and take them, as it looks like they will do again in two weeks time.

I'm voting no because quite simply the state is addicted to borrowing, until such time as our government grasps this then we are putting off the inevitable. A lot of vested interests need to be taken on and beaten imo. The cpa needs to be torn up, for example 90% of our policing budget goes on pay and pensions. Our welfare system is too generous and needs to be reduced, there is huge wastage in our public service.
The first function of any government must be to balance its books as though it were a household. We don't need the eu to tell us that. Yes there will be a lot of pain for a few years but in the long run we will be better off. The second reason I'm voting no is that there has been no reduction on the private bank debt. I would ask anyone undecided to vote no, it sends the message that the people of Ireland are fed up and we will not tolerate this.

This piece on politics.ie is worth a look: http://www.politics.ie/forum/europea...al-greece.html

Makes some good arguments I think.

Also, the ULA have posters up on my road with white writing on a yellow background. That's quality stupid right there, worth opposing anybody doing that. I'll be voting yes.

The Yes campaign has been poor enough, but the No campaign has been dreadful. Full of populist, hysterical nonsense and often just flat out fanciful.

Going with Yes as least bad option.. but once again my opinion of political discourse in this country diminishes even further.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

Also, the ULA have posters up on my road with white writing on a yellow background. That's quality stupid right there, worth opposing anybody doing that. I'll be voting yes.

Going with Yes as least bad option.. but once again my opinion of political discourse in this country diminishes even further.

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Like voting on the basis of a poster:p

So, turnout said to be low so far, likely to finish at 50-60%. The consensus seems to be that <=50% means a No win, 50-55% would be too close to call, while 55% + should guarantee a Yes victory.

On the way home now to vote...

Yeah... I'm voting No in spite of my loyalties.

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Originally Posted by culloty82

So, turnout said to be low so far, likely to finish at 50-60%. The consensus seems to be that <=50% means a No win, 50-55% would be too close to call, while 55% + should guarantee a Yes victory.

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Turnout was very low, but it doesn't guarantee victory for the NO camp, like the high turnout for Lisbon in 2008 didn't guarantee a Yes win.

It will probably be carried, but things are unlikely to change for Joe and Joanna Average. They've just given the government the power to impose more difficult budgets, not only next year, or the year after, but several decades down the line. And when they protest, the government will say "you voted for it".

Well done Ireland, voted for more taxes and cuts, tsk - then they will be moaning in a year or two about it (over a few pints no doubt or on here). The fighting irish? long gone..........

Surprised that Yes appears to have taken this by a margin. had a punt the other day on the margin being less than 8% and when I saw the turnout was wishing I'd taken 8/1 on No winning. Shows what I feckin know!

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

Well done Ireland, voted for more taxes and cuts, tsk - then they will be moaning in a year or two about it (over a few pints no doubt or on here). The fighting irish? long gone..........

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Because a no vote would've meant no more taxes and no more cuts? That's been the general quality of the no side arguments, hence why they appear to have lost.

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

Well done Ireland, voted for more taxes and cuts, tsk - then they will be moaning in a year or two about it (over a few pints no doubt or on here). The fighting irish? long gone..........

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This referendum had no impact on whether cuts and texes were happening. They were going to happen anyway, and its fairyland stuff to think otherwise

Disasterous day for the country. The Irish people have yet again succumbed to fear and voted to kick the can down the road yet again.

A vote in favour of a bad economic treaty, a vote in favour of the extension of a lost decade for the unemployed and young people, a vote in favour of the extension of the gravy train for the rich and upper-middle classes. The socio-economic demographic voting patterns don't lie.

Our last opportunity to kill the bank debt and to start to properly balance our budget is blown. Our debt is unsustainable, the politicians on both sides have pulled a con job on the people of the real consequences of the treaty and this country's economic and debt problems.

Irrespective of today's decision Greece or/and Spain will sink the Euro project in the next number of months.

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Originally Posted by Macy

Because a no vote would've meant no more taxes and no more cuts? That's been the general quality of the no side arguments, hence why they appear to have lost.

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well thats wrong for a start

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Originally Posted by Dodge

This referendum had no impact on whether cuts and texes were happening. They were going to happen anyway, and its fairyland stuff to think otherwise

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well it does if the trika need more for the bailouts and the bondholders - you are living in fairyland if you think this has no effect on the current economy. Answer me this - what would the Irish economy be like now if we had done what Iceland did, if we had slimmed down the banks at least, if we dont keep wasting money on repaying bondholders, etc etc????

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

Answer me this - what would the Irish economy be like now if we had done what Iceland did, if we had slimmed down the banks at least, if we dont keep wasting money on repaying bondholders, etc etc????

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No clue, but the fact is we didn't. We pumped billions into the banks, and that money is now gone. The debate about what we should've done 4 years ago is pretty pointless now. (and for the record I was against any kind of a bank bailout then)

The facts are that we'll need to borrow heavily for the next ten years or so, and without this we wouldn't have had anyone willing to lend to us.

Banks or no banks.

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Originally Posted by total hoofball

Disasterous day for the country. The Irish people have yet again succumbed to fear and voted to kick the can down the road yet again.

A vote in favour of a bad economic treaty, a vote in favour of the extension of a lost decade for the unemployed and young people, a vote in favour of the extension of the gravy train for the rich and upper-middle classes. The socio-economic demographic voting patterns don't lie.

Our last opportunity to kill the bank debt and to start to properly balance our budget is blown. Our debt is unsustainable, the politicians on both sides have pulled a con job on the people of the real consequences of the treaty and this country's economic and debt problems.

Irrespective of today's decision Greece or/and Spain will sink the Euro project in the next number of months.

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I'm surprised more hasn't been made of this. Then again if you consider the socio-economic profile of most political journalists.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

No clue, but the fact is we didn't. We pumped billions into the banks, and that money is now gone. The debate about what we should've done 4 years ago is pretty pointless now. (and for the record I was against any kind of a bank bailout then)

The facts are that we'll need to borrow heavily for the next ten years or so, and without this we wouldn't have had anyone willing to lend to us.

Banks or no banks.

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Ok thats fair point gov.
But the only problem is we still doing the same then as we are doing now - ie getting loans to pay back bad loans, have the present government any idea how to get the economy moving again other than tax increases and budget cuts???? Is austerity working?
Would the world end if we defaulted and stopped paying huge amounts to bondholders???
It wont work anyway, just delaying the inevitable

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Originally Posted by total hoofball

Our last opportunity to kill the bank debt and to start to properly balance our budget is blown. Our debt is unsustainable, the politicians on both sides have pulled a con job on the people of the real consequences of the treaty and this country's economic and debt problems.

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How would voting no have killed the bank debt?

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Originally Posted by Bennocelt

well thats wrong for a start .

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The no side have conceded the result, and that they've lost.

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

Would the world end if we defaulted and stopped paying huge amounts to bondholders???
It wont work anyway, just delaying the inevitable

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The world wouldn't end, but it wouldn't be the end of austerity!

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Originally Posted by Macy

How would voting no have killed the bank debt?


The no side have conceded the result, and they they've lost.

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thats correct

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Originally Posted by Macy

How would voting no have killed the bank debt?


The no side have conceded the result, and that they've lost.


The world wouldn't end, but it wouldn't be the end of austerity!

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True but money would be spent differently, one would like to think

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

True but money would be spent differently, one would like to think

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What money?