Dusan Tadic would get into the Brazil team.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiffRaff
Printable View
Dusan Tadic would get into the Brazil team.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiffRaff
Gudelj is an absolute gem of a player too.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
He plays regular first team football. It might be at St. Mirren, but it's regular first team football. We don't have many players regularly getting their game.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Anyone downplaying Serbia needs their head examined: they're a very good side. I expected a narrow defeat after a battling performance; we did better than that by an OG to sneak a not really deserved draw. It's a bit crap that a home result like that against the second seeds is a modestly positive result for us, but that's where we are.
Positives: Bazunu (misjudged rush aside), Omobamidele, Hendrick.
Negatives: Molumby
The next Azerbaijan game is far more important. We have to win that: no wins in three games against Luxembourg and Azerbaijan would really be telling.
Serbia must be really p'eed off with that result. Does their chances no good at all and they must have fancied themselves to win, given our run of results. We were out of qualification contention after the Lux loss, but tonight we had a say in the final outcome of the group. Kenny seemed more confident in the press conference on Monday and in his interview after the Serbia game. More bullish and less overawed by the whole experience.
Small things to build on. (It's the hope that kills you in the end :D )
Those having a go at Kenny's selections
Name one other international side they'd expect to beat Portugal, Serbia, even Azerbaijan with a team half made up of 19/20/21/22 yr olds?
Challenge accepted - England! A team featuring Alexander-Arnold, Reece James, Bellingham, Saka, Rice, Mount, Sancho and Greenwood plus 3 others would definitely beat Azerbaijan, probably beat Serbia and likely beat this Portugal side (who only just scraped by a transitional ROI side at home)Quote:
Originally Posted by Insidetherock
OK, in fairness, I looked at a number of other major powers and couldn't see any other team capable of putting out such a strong group of young players so... er... good for England - looks like they may yet get that major tournament victory within the next decade.
Also, I'm still reasonably optimistic that when the Euro 2024 qualifiers start, we'll be able to put out a reasonably strong squad made up entirely of players who are currently aged 16-22
And if the other half has several club journeymen who in other eras wouldn't have been near our team, how about then ? The other half incidentally comprises the entire midfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by samhaydenjr
Em... correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Bellingham, Saka, Rice and Mount all midfielders? I even left out Foden because I thought I was overloading midfield - without him I have eight in that team - I only need England's best two defenders over 22 and England's best goalkeeper to round it outQuote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
One more comment on SK's reign - one of the arguments put forward in his defense is that he needs more time. I don't think any Irish manager has had as much time to prepare for their first major qualifying campaign as Kenny. He had a play-off he shouldn't have had, a friendly against England, and a Nations League campaign. This team should have been ready from the game in Serbia - instead we're facing down the barrel of our worst qualifying campaign in half a century (possibly the first without a victory since then).
That said, if the final three performances actually do build on these last three and yield at least six points and a strong showing against Portugal, then the case can be made to give him another shot
I didn't think criticism of Kenny and the myths around him were banned from foot.ie?Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
I loved this. He is so capable on the ball, I wonder if playing on the right of a back 3 sees the team gets the most out of him in that regard. Whereas, in a back 4 he would be more restricted. He was more than happy to provide a very wide option for Bazunu, as well as going up the field a little too- like for this pass and his shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
As you point out, Kenny had a free crack at euro qualification against a covid hit Slovakia and failed. Finished 9 points behind Finland and 13 behind Wales in the nation's league. Is languishing us second bottom in world cup qualifying miles behind Portugal and Serbia after losing to Luxembourg and drawing with Azerbaijan at home. And all this without scoring many goals, some desperate performances and only one win against Andorra. It really shows that there are those who were going to defend him no matter what. We could lose to Azerbaijan and Luxembourg again, finish bottom of the group and there still will be many saying he should remain in the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by samhaydenjr
Some say he's been unlucky. What other manager has had free reign to perform as poorly as he has and still have calls for him to get a new contract? He's one of the luckiest managers ever. For example, previous managers would have been slated for saying we shouldn't be expected to compete with Serbia and Portugal. When Trap and O Neill said similar things, they were lambasted.
He's been given a chance, he's had as many games as Staunton. We all wanted his way to work as it would be good for our future but he has failed and failed miserably. We have to get rid of him before he does more damage and we end up with a long ball merchant again.
I felt the press conference and the pre/post match interviews last night were polar opposites to be honest - he doesn't do bullish defiance well at all, just looks like a guy under enormous pressure. He was far more composed and rational last night I felt, unflustered.Quote:
Originally Posted by texidub
Happy to give him the campaign at least. It was always gonna take a long time. My biggest fear beforehand was that the job itself (rather than the project) would be too big for him, out of his depth personality wise. I haven't seen much to alleviate that concern, it's only heightened overall tbh.
But the big positive is that we're seeing young players grow, if not necessarily the team itself or the brand of football, to the extent we would have hoped.
So even if he ultimately flops results wise, at least he'll have done a lot of the ground work for the next guy. And, as has been well documented, there isn't really any obviously desirable candidate to take over currently anyway - so let's hope he can break his competitive duck in Baku and take it from there.
I was thinking the same last night. It was really evident that there's a real love for this team and I think also full support for the difficult project at hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
So we're happy to quote ybig now :D oh the irony....
I thought Serbia looked class because they are quite classy. Big, athletic, technically sound, cohesive, star quality upfront. Really good team. What we should aspire to being like.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiffRaff
Agree with your point re Serbia - they look a really good side in the making and if they could finish properly they'd have been 3 up no bother.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
I don't agree with your summation that our performance was "....very very good at times".
I felt we struggled alot especially once we were in there half with the ball. There keeper had nothing to do until 85 minute apart from Hendrick back pass as far as I recall
I'm glad we started playing it a bit longer at times as I think it is important to mix it up, if short ball is on great, if not look for a longer option. Sensible.
I think thats fair criticism, the nations league in particular was an excellent opportunity to prepare. Things seemed to go wrong from the start though and all the crap around the England match was probably a much bigger set back than realised at the time. Duff bailing before things had even got going cant have been helpful. Hoping things have settled down now and he is trying to introduce reasonbly difficult coaching concepts (whether thats a good thing of not is another q).Quote:
Originally Posted by samhaydenjr
I would say his best match was Slovakia away. We played high pressing possession football and created good chances, but somehow didn't score.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
The recent stuff has been standard desperation stuff that you'd see under any other Irish manager. I mean last night against Serbia we were going down the channels and getting McClean to whip balls into the box. This is no different to MON or McCarthy.
I don't know what happened. I get the feeling he might have lost the dressing room.
I think there are other signs I'd expect to see if that had happened. There are other explanations too.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Well I don't know if the players don't like him, but subconsciously they may have given up on "the project". They go out there and play on instinct.
or to how portugal managed to snatch a win from us last wednesday.....Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Going on Matt Dohertys comments yesterday he hasn't lost the dressing room.
No. In that match we had 28% possession and Portugal were creating chance after chance. We were lucky to hold out as long was we did, and at the same time unlucky that we conceded so close at the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
With 30 minutes to go in that match, I didn't feel we'd hold out. I don't think anybody did. Did you? The bookies still had Portugal as favourites to win at halftime.
The Portugal game was the same heroic, backs to the wall Irish performance that you might see under MON, Trap or McCarthy. It was nothing new.
The first half of the Portugal game was much more positive than the second. Look at the stats at half time rather than full time and it's a pretty different story. I don't think anyone would argue the second half was great, or anything much more than backs to the wall (although still with flashes of attempting to counter in a more progressive way than in the past).Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/15...rtugal-Ireland
You can use the stats here to only show the first half and second half stats. 31.2% possession first half (not great but enough to create chances). 7 shots to 4, very respectable, 3 corner to 2. Points to a pretty good performance away to a top team.
Second half it was 24.4% possession (which is backs to the wall in fairness). 22 shots to 2, 11 corners to 1. No doubt, much more akin to what had gone before, but the first half performance earned the right to try and hold on in the second half and it was agonisingly close to working.
We should've had a penalty in the second half of that game. If we'd won that peno and scored we'd be hailing Stephen Kenny right now for his gameplan, which largely worked against Portugal. There was a plan at least which didn't seem to be the case at the end of O'Neill's reign
I'm sure there were tens of seconds in which we had 100% possession and even all of the shots. Games aren't 45 minutes long. Andorra did rather well against us for longer than that.
Doherty isn't afraid to be openly critical of management either.
my point was that their path to goal was whipping the ball into the box. most of their other attempts in the 2nd half were through the same method of pumping balls towards our box, long range shots etc. It was largely panic stations stuff from them.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
at HT i thought we would concede early in the 2nd half but from 70 mins on i thought we could hold out. everytime portugals manager appeared on the screen he looked spooked
From Ken Early this morning:
Kenny’s Ireland have suffered some cruel sliding doors moments, going all the way back to Hourihane’s shot from six yards that was blocked by a Slovak defender on the line in the Euro 2020 playoff.
Against Serbia, a penalty-area foul by Stefan Mitrovic on Aaron Connolly at 1-1. No penalty. Instead, Serbia take the lead a few minutes later thanks to a positioning error by Ireland’s third-choice keeper. Against Luxembourg, James Collins’ shot from six yards is saved and Gerson Rodrigues’s from 25 yards flies into the corner. Against Portugal, Ireland are already 1-0 up when Palhinha jumps on Connolly’s back as he prepares to pull the trigger from eight yards. A clear penalty and - since there was no attempt to play the ball - a red card. The referee sees nothing and Portugal go on to win with a goal in the sixth minute of the five minutes of injury time.
If Ireland had been only averagely lucky instead of consistently unlucky, the picture in the qualifying group could look quite different.
I like using the Sliding Doors analogy myself to show how capricious football is, though I think some of the incidences above might be less clear cut than Early describes. Look at Austria away under O'Neill, Austria missed a sitter in injury time. 1-1 and the narrative would have been all about being too defensive etc. Instead it was a great away win. Wales away in the play off - McClean took out Joe Allen early on. Different game after that imho. Italy in Lille - Italy hit post before we scored. None of this belittles the results, they just highlight how the Gods can conspire to determine outcomes sometimes, like they did last night. In Finland Enda Stevens hit the post a minute before Randolph threw the ball straight to an attacker for their goal. Randolph didn't get away with his error, whereas Bazunu has got away with his ones. I shudder to think what'd have happened but for a worldie by Randolph at 0-0 on 50 minutes in Gibraltar.
I think it's fair to say that overall the Sliding Doors moments in general haven't gone Kenny's way.
I think in general some people are too quick to point out where we've got lucky or even relied on having a good goalkeeper to diminish performances but are blind to any bad luck that mitigates a bad result.
Because luck evens itself out over the course of a campaign. You can't keep blaming luck or what ifs. Also its easy to say if this goal or that goal went in but there's nothing to suggest other things wouldn't have transpired afterwards. If there is a luckometre though O'Neill is up around 90 on it.
I sit/stand in 114/115 and friends telling me last night the atmosphere was really good in there, and from the videos I've seen it was busier than the weekend game. People must have stuff to do on the weekends, not much to do midweek covid in Dublin :)
I enjoyed last night in the second half, it was frantic, very similar to us v Denmark under Mick Mc. Unlike that game we didnt get a break by a bit of tired and dopey defending. I think a lot of similarities to the gung-ho approach in the last 20 mins under previous managers. The balance between when to pass and went to go over the top is coming about right, contrast that to say slovakia game. The "stats" might be relatively poor but the tempo in the second quarter of the second last night cant be questioned. But as John says you can have 100% possession over a few seconds, everything must be taken over the course of the game, and our individual and team performances are far too inconsistent and that tempo is lacking throughout. Until that changes we're going to be on a merry go round like we've experienced the last few months. Hendrick and McClean had great games last night, as did Duffy. But how often do they not and more importantly how often can you rely on 2 out of those 3?
Kenny in his 17 games in charge, finally got his subs right, almost spot on. But is everything taking too long for him to learn and cop on to?
My hope is that no focus on prospects but a few lads just magically appear similar to Andrew O and claim spots. If you're good enough you prove it up front like he has done. If we could even unearth 2 more of him around the middle or and/or 1 forward out of that I believe we'd be in a really good strong position. As usual though a plethora in one position, always the case with us.
Matt Doherty seems to play better when colemans not in the side or not near him at least. Hopefully he can keep producing that level of performance.
Bazunu and cluxton would get on well, hes taken it upon himself to bypass the first man/line on many occasion , his drift ball has pace and accuracy and its a real weapon - his best asset by far. He's using it more and more and its great to see especially with wingers like doherty and to a lesser extent mcclean to aim to out on the touchline. I still dont agree with this GAA inspired split the middle and bring out the backs either side of the goalie, all it does is land you in potential trouble, you can draw space in the middle without having to do that.
On Idah, hes nowhere near he needs to be, my buddy season ticket holder messaged last night " i can see idah never scoring for ireland", we've had shane long, mcgoldrick, kevin doyle do a similar role for us for years now, the latter and previous getting goals at least, as good headers of the ball, idah doesnt seem to have that, he needs to start wearing the helmet like Ronaldo. He has a long way to go to be anything other than a target man, but hopefully he gets the right training and coaching to work on that at club level. Not sure a loan move would do good for that where they want instant impacts.
Theres an interesting turnaround of kennys stat being pushed about, 1 loss in 6. Makes things sound a lot better :)
That's a fair assessment. The problem is that we need Jeff to be that constantly. We need the Jeff that looked a million dollars at Euro 2016. And we simply haven't had him enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
That's the problem though, people are always comparing 2021 Jeff Hendrick to 2016-2018 Jeff Hendrick. We should compare 2021 Jeff Hendrick to the other options available in the 2021 squad. If he still makes the team based on that criteria, then he makes the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
That was the first thing I noticed, they got the 4 around and went into plan-mode.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
I cringed a bit with the Azeri celebration, not last night.
i suppose the idea is that playing a group of players and getting them used to international football, integrating them to the set up and hoping they get something of an upward trajectory at club level, that they will reach a particular level where they will become the side that will dominate possession. That's what I hope for and expect anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by centre mid
We've not dominated possession against Georgia, Montenegro, Moldova, Cyprus in other managerial reigns. It's not something that has traditionally sat well with Irish teams. It takes time.
I agree with Paul on the 'sliding doors', 'luck' thing. We're far enough into Kenny's tenure, now, to assess where he, and we, are at. And there does seem to be a rather desperate, if not outright delusional, straw-clutching amongst some within the media and sections of our support in blaming simple 'bad luck' for our ills.
You have certain incidents, or even matches where things can go against you, or like last night, very much for you. We were extremely fortunate to scrape a draw against Serbia, as exemplified by the quite farcical own goal they scored. As Kerr accurately stated, Serbia 'battered us', and we could have easily been 4 or 5 goals down by the time the Serbs inexplicably put through their own net. But we got lucky - very lucky. In other matches we have been less fortunate, where certain situations have gone against us. But, as the cliché suggests, over a period of time these things do tend to even themselves out.
And certainly Kenny has been very fortunate with how kindly treated he has been by most of the media, and fans - with a level of latitude and understanding granted to him that his predecessors can only have dreamt about.
I would say though that the loss of Robinson for these games was certainly an important, and maybe quite decisive, slice of bad luck.
Our attacking resources are so slight, and we do look a greatly more effective offensive force when he is there, as we got a glimpse of last night.
The other point about Jeff is that he's often unfairly criticised as someone who 'goes missing' or is a 'waste of a shirt'. Well, at the very least he will work hard for the team and put in a shift. Would a Dyche team ever conceivably accept anything less?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
I think the big frustration with Hendrick is the suspicion that he has more ability and more to offer than he sometimes shows. And we have seen glimpses of great quality from him.