A trickle?
Though more could be good....
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A trickle?
Though more could be good....
A "trickle" appears to be the term du jour, although no harm in a few more, certainly. ;)
For what it's worth, Derry-born Marc Mukendi, son of former Derry City player José Mukendi, who was also an international player for Zaire (now the Democratic Republic of Congo), the country of his birth, favoured playing for Ireland despite being also eligible to play for Northern Ireland (and, the Democratic Republic of Congo, presumably). He represented us at under-18 and under-19 level, as far as I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
In fact, when Northern Ireland were playing Slovenia in Belfast the other week, a lad I know from Derry whose father comes from either Nigeria or Senegal (not 100 per cent certain which) and who is now living on Tate's Avenue near Windsor Park, evidently getting somewhat annoyed by chanting Northern Ireland fans walking past his door on their way to the ground, wrote the following as his Facebook status:
Admittedly not the most amicable of comments, but I suppose it provides a bit of an insight into his convictions. He also happens to support Ireland when it comes to international loyalties.Quote:
"Were not Brazill, we're Northern Ireland!"
Jesus f**k up you bunch of ignorant tw*ts...enjoy watching your wee made up country get beat
Fairly anecdotal stuff, I know, but my point is this; the likelihood is that the political or socio-cultural outlook of the sons and daughters of immigrants will be influenced somewhat by the communities and circumstances within which they are raised. Maybe there'll be others with unionist sympathies for whatever reason and, of course, others who couldn't care less, but it doesn't necessarily follow that any national aspiration for unity throughout Ireland will become "diluted" due to immigration.
Either way, the Irish constitution recognises that "a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island ... in all the diversity of their identities and traditions". That certainly doesn't confine voting in any future referendum on the matter to just Catholics, Protestants, nationalists, unionists or whoever it is you're suggesting the constitution refers to the exclusion of "immigrants who will have children", but sounds very much like it encompasses the considerations of immigrants and their families to me, just so long as they are registered and have a right to vote in said referendum, of course.
This made me chuckle - thanks for sharing.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
You can tell he's not fully "Norn Iron" because that should've been 'get bate'Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Transpires the lad's father's from Ghana. Not sure why I had the other two in my head. Not that it matters a huge deal, but glad to be of assistance. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Those two young lads with African heritage have obviously been well brought up. And noted their enviroment.
Wonder if the North have ever had any non-white fans??
Yes, Northern Ireland have had "non-white" fans...and still do.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Sure they're all orange.
Not all of us use sunbeds, or fake tan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
http://8106.tv/blog/wp-content/uploa...illy_wonka.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
They age well, all the same!Attachment 1747Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
http://www.orange-order.co.uk/chroni...rangeorder.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
The Royal Black Preceptors?
From todays Independent: http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...y-2621278.html
Quote:
The planned American jaunt will be for rising
stars, and Tardelli was coy enough on the
prospect of Derry-born Newcastle player Shane
Ferguson being in that number. The left-sided
performer has represented Northern Ireland in a
senior friendly, but the fear in Belfast is that he
intends to follow Shane Duffy and declare for
Ireland. "He hasn't indicated to us, but I like
him," smiled the Irish No 2. "There are many
ways for him to contact us."
The 19-year-old might be one for the future.
Whether it's a vision that involves Tardelli will
depend on the events of the next six months.
It would appear from that, in spite of the IFA recently making a very serious attempt to break from what Jim Boyce publicly accepted and agreed with the FAI in 1999 with regard to the status of northern-born Irish nationals along with the CAS ruling as a result of that, that the FAI are still awaiting contact from interested northern parties first. Of course, there are complications with this. From a young player's perspective, it might appear somewhat arrogant on his behalf. Generally, players are invited to join international teams on the basis of being deemed worthy enough by whoever the particular manager is. They don't invite themselves. I understand why the FAI would be reluctant to appear like they're "intruding" on someone who'd have no interest in representing us either - leaving them open to criticism by over-sensitive whiners happy to latch the term "sectarian" onto anything that doesn't favour their political persuasion - but why worry about it really? It's perfectly legitimate and entirely within the rules. These nationals are born Irish just like every other national born on the island. Nothing wrong with making a brief enquiry. If the player says he's not interested, no harm done. Does the FAI wait for those who qualify under the "granny rule" to make first contact?
If they do then I don't think that's the right way to go about things.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Just invite/poach/press gang them....
According to a poster on a certain forum, Shane Ferguson is not sure about where his future lies.
I see Tardelli has been referred to in the most unendearing of terms for his brief comment on the matter, despite having clearly been directly asked about it by a journalist. From a NI fan's perspective, I can't see what problem there would be with it given that who initiates contact appears to be a pivotal issue. Besides, Tardelli is a thoroughly likeable and jovial chap. Don't think I've ever seen him without a smile on his face.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
I also note the poster you're referring to had a word with Ferguson in an attempt to convince him to play for NI. Hmm... Given dubious and cloudy accusations of the FAI and nationalist community "pressuring" players from nationalist backgrounds into declaring for us, surely that's blatant hypocrisy? Another comments, "let's hope the lad has a mind of his own", as if declaring for the FAI would be indicative of some brainwashing having stripped poor Shane of his cognisance whilst sticking with NI could obviously only be entirely a decision made independently and totally at his own behest, but, indeed; let's hope the lad has a mind of his own.
That just shows you how blindly seething some of the IFA fans are on the matter. The mere fact that Tardelli commented on the matter is enough to send some into hysterics.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
That it is, but when the IFA and their fans try to talk a player into doing something it's not 'coercion', it's 'encouragement', don't you know?.Quote:
I also note the poster you're referring to had a word with Ferguson in an attempt to convince him to play for NI. Hmm... Given dubious and cloudy accusations of the FAI and nationalist community "pressuring" players from nationalist backgrounds into declaring for us, surely that's blatant hypocrisy?
Don Givens confirmed that the FAI has been in contact with Shane Ferguson in today's Star. He said that Ferguson wants a bit of time to make his decision.
Oh God, the FAI were in contact or Don Givens was in contact?...
Givens has stated that Shane has refused to play for his country.
Shane has claimed that he did say he needed a bit of time to make his decision but Don had slammed down the phone before he could go on to explain that he wants to declare for the FAI but first he wants to inform his parents.
Honestly, I only had a sneaky glance in a petrol station this morning without actually buying the paper. It mentioned someone else speaking on behalf of the FAI, so I don't think it was Givens himself...
From today's Examiner:
Trap likely to call up North ace Ferguson
Giovanni Trapattoni is set to annoy the IFA again and call Newcastle United's Shane Ferguson into his squad for the Carling Nations Cup game against Northern Ireland next month.
Derry-born Ferguson has met Irish scout Mick Martin to discuss his move to the Republic despite winning a senior cap with the North.
the 19 year old left-sided player appeared in a 2009 friendly against Italy but is still free to switch allegiances.
Trapattoni is ready to name him in the squad for the end of season games against Northern ireland, Scotland and Macedonia despite the problems it will cause with the North.
Darron Gibson, Marc Wilson and Shane Duffy have already switched sides and chief Irish scout Don Givens knows the latest movement will irritate Nigel Worthington and the IFA.
"Shane is still kind of making his mind up but Mick Martin has spoken to him" confirmed Givens. "I'm sure the North are not too happy with us. They have a small pool of players but in the long run, the less good results they get the more the dual players will want to come to us."
Hmm, they're quite handily placed right now despite a couple of poor results. Just shows the value of a decent away win over a direct opponent. I wouldn't bet too much on NI underperforming the ROI in this campaign - wrt group placing anyway, maybe not total points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullivinho
Givens is some **** stirrerQuote:
Originally Posted by Sullivinho
Ah. Mick Martin, it was.
I don't think the results of the IFA team matter much to the likes of Shane Ferguson, Shane Duffy, Gibson, Wilson, Kearns when it comes to making the decision to change to the FAI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Givens
Givens is simply incapable of opening his mouth without rubbing someone up the wrong way.
edit: that just sounds dirty
That's what I was thinking myself. I reckon Don knows it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
Interesting developments and good to hear it if Ferguson does eventually go through with the switch. I hadn't really seen it ending that way. Givens' comments are cretinous coming from someone in a professional capacity, mind.
thats pretty reprehensible from Givens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullivinho
Agreed. It's more a question of nationality and cultural identity that they probably feel more comfortable with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
And why have a pop at Givens or whoever, they're only the messenger.
Because Givens is basically saying that its good if Ferguson switches because it will make NI more **** and because of this we can get more of their players. Whereas, like you say, its really about a sense of nationality and identity rather than just playing for the better team. He's just stirring the pot for no good reason and thats not doing either side any favours.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
I'd be critical of Givens on the basis that I doubt he's reiterating any official FAI line. He appears to be indulging in some needless personal waffle that also happens to be both ignorant and entirely incorrect; results having absolutely nothing to do with player allegiance, of course, as has been pointed out.
Being unnecessarily triumphalist - something on which Givens verges by expressly referring to the IFA's situation when it ought to be entirely irrelevant to our ambitions - wouldn't be the most prudent of official stances either as it merely serves to provoke further paranoid hysteria around what should be a non-issue, not to mention providing fuel for a mass helping of vitriol towards the specific players concerned, and doesn't look too smart when trying to exert a claim over the moral high ground on the issue at large either. Don't give their overused windbags any more bloody oxygen, for Pete's sake!
Players declaring to play for us should not be scrutinised in the context of declaring for us at the IFA's expense, as if the IFA's situation is our fault or the fault of the player. Northern-born Irish nationals have as much right to play for us as they do them. The debate as to who "possesses" these individuals is, of course, a redundant, ludicrous and utterly objectionable concept, but if a cretin were to go conceptualising down that route, as I've seen many do, these individuals, in the daft nomenclature of such an argument, are as much "our" players as they are "their" players. Likewise, the FAI also bear a financial cost from players who declare to play for us at whatever level, just in the same way the IFA do, and just as both associations reap the accompanying and concurrent rewards.
Anyway, personally, I'm just delighted that Ferguson looks set to finally declare for his country. ;)
Maybe, but think a lot of people seem to be overstating his influence. For once I wouldn't agree 100% with DI, but will cede once again to his more articulate response.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
And even if Givens is doing what his critics suggest, to me it's 'fair game' in the general scheme of things. Especially in the overall context of what's preceded this.
Do you think anyone would behave differently under the same circumstances??
Givens' comments were snide, which helps nobody and makes the FAI out to be arrogant. It's not nice and we shouldn't applaud it. Even though we're competing with them for players, I'd always wish NI the best and would like nothing more than to see both our teams compete at a major tournament.
Fair enough CD, but as we all know that feeling's hardly mutual.
I have no sympathy for the north losing out on players especially as the governing body there haven't been arsed about changing to a more politically correct and meaningful national anthem. How players from nationalist communities can stand and listen to that before a match is beyond me. I mean Neil Lennon did his level best and look at the treatment he's been getting. Sort the IFA out into being a less sectarian organisation and maybe just maybe there wont be as many 'deserters' to the south.Till such a time I don't think northern fans can have to many grievances.