2day FM + Bertie

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Originally Posted by barney

No it doesn't.

like it or not, is infinitely superior to the eircom League in terms of quality. The Premiership may be overhyped but it is a very good standard of football and one of the best, if not the best, leagues in the world.

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And this is the other side of the coin. What EL find irritating about 'barstoolers'. As well as being mis-informed, it shows the Marketing prowess of Sky and the British media. They've got you anyway.

I'll put it to you that next time you watch a Premiership game, that doesn't involve Arsenal and Man YOO, that if you actually watch the FOOTBALL (not the setting or the servicescape, ie. the dreaded RED BUTTON).....the standard really isn't as great as it's made out to be!

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Originally Posted by Pablo Escobar

I'll put it to you that next time you watch a Premiership game, that doesn't involve Arsenal and Man YOO, that if you actually watch the FOOTBALL (not the setting or the servicescape, ie. the dreaded RED BUTTON).....the standard really isn't as great as it's made out to be!

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Absolutely agree with that. Not to say it isn't way ahead of the EL, no one seriously disputes that. But apart from the top few clubs the football really isn't that wonderful. There are more teams like Bolton in the PL than Arsenal. If it's all about quality then why don't more people "support" the Spanish league ? which features far better football. And similarly, if it's all about quality, why do people support Ireland ? For Chrissakes people, theres Brazil, Argentaina, Italy, France, Spain out there - Choose quality, you know it makes sense.:)

Seriously though, this is the one question that purveyors of the "quality" argument have never had a proper answer to.

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Originally Posted by barney

No it doesn't.

Some people, if they are going to watch football, want to watch quality football. We have a strong link with the English game (media coverage, Irish players playing in the league, relatives in England) which, like it or not, is infinitely superior to the eircom League in terms of quality. The Premiership may be overhyped but it is a very good standard of football and one of the best, if not the best, leagues in the world.

and good percentage of them have a much better understanding of the game than a lot of the people I see (and hear) at eircom League grounds.

I support my local side and get to as many games as possible. I also watch and follow The Premiership. I have the time and inclination to do both. Some people don't and plump for the English game. That's a reasonable choice in my book (even if I don't agree). Football is not 100% tribal for a lot of people. They enjoy the game and enjoy watching it being played well.

People aren't going to change. It's therefore up to the eircom League to improve the standard of the league and its facilities until such time that more people decide that the drop in the quality of what they are watching is amply compensated by the fact that they are supporting their local club.

Less of the 'chip on the shoulder' attitude wouldn't go amiss either. If the eircom League/FAI adopt an attitude of "I can't understand how anyone can support an English club" then the situation will not get any better. There is a reason it happens with most football supporters in this country. It's up to the league to do something to reverse the trend.

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Good post Barney, and I agree with some points.

But, a couple of points -

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Some people, if they are going to watch football, want to watch quality football.

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They enjoy the game and enjoy watching it being played well.

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Fair enough, but that suggests that those people would not actually have any allegiance to any club, rather they would simply watch whichever team is playing the best football.

I think that eL fans wouldn't have a problem with people who just wanted to watch the best football, wherever it is, and would accept the fact that such a person would rarely set foot inside an eL ground.

But-

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Very few, if any, of my mates have ever switched (English) teams that they support/follow

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this suggests that your mates who want to watch quality football will actually find an allegiance to the club they chose at random/based on the quality of football. They will become supporters of the team. So you may say that

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Football is not 100% tribal for a lot of people.

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but it usually become tribal very quickly.

If, for example, one of your mates began supporting Leeds 10 years ago, when they were among the top clubs in England, and your mate has since stuck by them in the bad times, doesn't that demonstrate that your mates are actually looking for some kind of allegiance. In other words, they are looking for a club to support, and the quality of the football doesn't have an effect on that allegiance.

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amply compensated by the fact that they are supporting their local club.

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This line indicates to me that you see there is value in supporting your local side.

The issue eL fans have is there are clubs here in Ireland which offer the exact same kind of allegiance as I've mentioned above (emotional attachment to the club strong enough that results don't shake your support, no matter how bad it gets), with the added bonus that it is your local side, a side that you have a true, natural affiliation with, albeit in poorer surroundings, and at a lower level of football.

But, for many fans who are looking for a club to support, looking for somebody on which to pin their allegiance, looking for a team to stick with through thick and thin, regardless of the results....their first port of call is not the eL, but foreign leagues, usually the Premier league or Celtic.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Steve whilst you are correct in disabusing the link between Belfast Celtic and Cliftonville the above statement is not entirely correct. Can't be arsed arguing the toss on this, but broadly Catholics in Belfast either kept their heads down and their mouths shut, or supported Distillery.

Put bluntly there absolutely were divisions and plenty of incidents at and around football games much nastier than anything that we've seen in the last 20 years, but things were very different back then in every facet of life and for many reasons they didn't demand or receive media coverage.

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True to some extent ORA. What I meant was that - Linfield and BC aside - before the Troubles, most clubs had cross-community suport. Not in equal or even necessarily representative proportions, but mixed support none-the-less. This was certainly true of clubs like City, Coleraine, Ballymena, Glenavon, and to a lesser extent the likes of Portadown, Bangor and Crues (due to the make-up of their areas). It was only really a few of the Belfast clubs that were prisoners to the demographic of their hinterland.

Bringing it Back slightly on the original topic, I found this while researching something.

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Originally Posted by Brian Cowen, TD, Minister for Finance

In music, just like in sport and so many other areas, we are showing our ecumenical side and it is a very positive thing.

The passion with which we now support our soccer and rugby teams has grown along with increased passion for the GAA. The sales of replica shirts for English clubs has not undermined or devalued our own distinctive sporting identity.

Where once membership meant an occasional commitment, GAA clubs are now growing in their importance as centres of community life. Dublin, which is becoming more diverse and international by the day, and was once seen as fallow territory for Gaelic games, is witnessing a remarkable growth in club numbers and membership.
Glenties, Sunday 16th July 2006

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This man has lost the small respect that I had for him. How dare he cast aside the LOI.

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Originally Posted by SligoBrewer

Bringing it Back slightly on the original topic, I found this while researching something.

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Originally Posted by Brian Cowen, TD, Minister for Finance
In music, just like in sport and so many other areas, we are showing our ecumenical side and it is a very positive thing.

The passion with which we now support our soccer and rugby teams has grown along with increased passion for the GAA. The sales of replica shirts for English clubs has not undermined or devalued our own distinctive sporting identity.

Where once membership meant an occasional commitment, GAA clubs are now growing in their importance as centres of community life. Dublin, which is becoming more diverse and international by the day, and was once seen as fallow territory for Gaelic games, is witnessing a remarkable growth in club numbers and membership.
Glenties, Sunday 16th July 2006

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This man has lost the small respect that I had for him. How dare he cast aside the LOI.

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Are you sure he's casting aside the LOI?

Perhaps the "disctinctive sporting identity" he's talking about includes the LOI.

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The passion with which we now support our soccer and rugby teams

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I'm guessing the soccer teams refers to eL teams.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

Are you sure he's casting aside the LOI?

Perhaps the "disctinctive sporting identity" he's talking about includes the LOI.


I'm guessing the soccer teams refers to eL teams.

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i'm guessing it refers to the national teams.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

Are you sure he's casting aside the LOI?

Perhaps the "disctinctive sporting identity" he's talking about includes the LOI.


I'm guessing the soccer teams refers to eL teams.

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Id be 99% sure hes on about the national team . Dont be daft osarusan!!
Dont forget its BIFFO lads. What would he know about anything. Thanks for that Sligo brewer Good post

This gets back to an issue a Shamrock Rovers fan friend of mine illustrated some years ago.
The people that owned Bewley's in Grafton Street decided to close the premises some years ago ( it has since re-opened I know)on the basis that the cafe's chain was no longer competitive. There were protests and petitions. 3,000 people marched on one occasion. How many of those 3,000 had actually darkened the doorstep of the Grafton Street Cafe during the previous 5 years?

People in Ireland have the same attitude to Eircom League of Ireland clubs. They won't bother their whole going to games but if the team decides to move ground or... shut down altogether through lack of support... they'd protest complain, bemoan the loss of a great tradition '' blah blah blah ''.

Well football clubs like cafe's cannot survive on thin air. If you want there to be a local club support the damned thing! Otherwise if they do shut down partly due to your not bothering to go. Don't bleat about the demise of an institution which you yourself have contributed towards the disappearance of.