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I hear Deering was removed because he called on his fellow directors to act on the investigation into shares held by the very shareholder who arranged for Deering to be removed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Albatross
If this is the case then it looks like a very serious matter of conspiracy to silence a fellow director trying to do the right thing. Any documentation available to back up that allegation?
Starryknight : ‘I hear Deering was removed because he called on his fellow directors to act on the investigation into shares held by the very shareholder who arranged for Deering to be removed.
If this is the case then it looks like a very serious matter of conspiracy to silence a fellow director trying to do the right thing. Any documentation available to back up that allegation? ‘
I have heard from a good close friend of Mr. Deering, that the posting by Albatross is not 100% correct, as the minutes are only ‘draft’ and have not been put to shareholders for approval. Serious discrepancies have not been addressed
Despite a request to the Company Secretary to reflect this note it in the
minutes of the meeting for the 8th Dec 2011 it obviously has not happened.
"Mr. Deering refused to resign; Mr. Holfeld then told Mr. Deering that he had
the numbers and would call a vote and fire him."
Mr Deering also tried to get this note read into the minutes of an EGM on
2nd April 2012 but was verbally abused by the Chairman, which was so
offensive that the then Company Secretary felt it necessary to write to all
shareholders requesting support to request the Chairman's resignation.
Could it be to do with a letter Mr. Deering wrote to Mr. Holfeld on 17th Nov.
2011 containing the following extract:
The Board is aware that some issues surround the transfer of shares from
Mercer to H.R Holfeld Limited, and they are still outstanding.
It seems the transfer was made by a company that was dissolved.
The Auditor has raised a concern, but feels we need to get legal
clarification."
For whatever reason that Mr. Deering was deemed unsuitable to hold office it
was obviously not performance related.
So now we have issues that are becoming clear, and already mentioned in previous postings of the Auditor ‘leaving’, the Company Secretary ‘leaving’ and now Mr. Deering ‘resigning’
What is REALLY going on at Bray Wanderers?
I leave you to draw your own conclusions.
Thank you Mr Dove for your contributions.
Looks like a conspiracy, smells like a conspiracy, then it is a conspiracy.
Looks like a coverup, smells like a coverup, then it is a coverup.
But this is dear old Ireland and that is how we do things, behind closed doors.
Will anything be done about this, who knows?
Will the Board be issuing a statement, not on our nellie!
Will the Fans give a damn, will the Sponsers even care, will the FAI even look at the governance issues?
We will see, in January, it be an interesting month for all contributors.
I know most of the fans on this site have probably seen this article from the Irish Times on Fri 21 Dec.....not good reading...
Latest accounts for League of Ireland minnows Bray Wanderers have just been dropped into the Companies Registration Office and they indicate that the club made a loss in 2011 of €170,000.
It had accumulated losses of €1.5 million at the end of November 2011. With the 2012 season having since closed, and with Bray finishing 10th in the premier division, long-serving director Eddie Cox told me Bray hoped to break even when the final accounts for this year had been signed off. "We reduced our budget considerably and we had a number of amateur players playing for us during the season," Cox explained. Thoughts are turning to next season, with the club once again hoping to secure its licence to participate in the league from the FAI. German carmaker Volkswagen is on board as team sponsor for 2013. "We're a small club with a small support base but we'll keep doing our best with what we have," said Cox.
Peadar1987 ‘’Absolutely no excuse for managing the club so badly. I genuinely believe heads should roll over this, but they won't’’
The above was posted on the Football Finance Thread, and the response below is posted. It is very much connected to this Thread, Where to Now for Bray Wanderers so I am posting it.
What the club will probably do is write back loans that Mr. Cox said had been written off into the P&L account and therefore able to show a profit.
A deal which I now believe to be null and void, where loans that directors gave to the club in good faith and were FORCED to write off by an individual who acquired 300,000 for €30 which is a transaction which is contrary to the clubs own Memorandum & Articles of Association which prevents shares being sold at below their face value. The same individual also indemnified the club from any legal costs in relation to that transaction.
It appears that it is in the best interests of the club for one individual to acquire his shares in this way but then decide that it is not in the best interests of the club for others to try and buy shares at face value.
It says so much about the club and the goings on behind the scenes.
Information flow is toxic sewage for authoritarian states. It's why Iran blocks Facebook and China hobbles Google. Some lefties would toss the American effort to muzzle WikiLeaks in the mix. T. McCarthy in The Guardian.
Bray Wanderers would also like to block information getting out and want to stifle any debate on the club.
We will see what happens with the new shareholders and their applications to join. Basically they will be politely told to forget it.
URGENT! URGENT! URGENT!
If Bray Wanderers supporters want a club to support next season it's now time to act now, the board have turned down Financial plan to save the club and get a License because they wont stand up to ONE particular shareholder. It would appear that shareholder would rather the club died. If you care start your protest now if you don't care then so be it and there will be the demise of your club.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albatross
If the worse comes to the worst, what is the situation if the club wished to reform and start again from the bottom? The Carlisle is officially owned by the council, is it not?
The lease on the ground dies with the end of the club, what makes anyone think the council would hand a lease to a new football club. The council have so many other options.Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
Are you saying there is a real chance that Bray could fail to start the season?
There isn't even the slightest chance Bray will miss the start of the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Then the club have obviously been playing "silly buggers" with the bank and creditors which is a despicable way to run a business. They were obviously going to resolve these issues all along but decided to go to the wire, those running the club have lost all credabilityQuote:
Originally Posted by Roo69
is that not every club in the league ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Albatross
Maybe so but that doesn't make it right, Bray Wanderers have been portrayed as how a club should be run, IMO they fall far short of proper ethical standards. Some would say who cares about ethics as long as the club survives, it's not a school of thought I'm comfortable with.Quote:
Originally Posted by lowflyingseagul
Looks like a great deal for the club to get loans written off.
You seem to have a lot of information on the club.You posted minutes of a meeting which starrynight says are wrong.Who is right ? Where did you get the minutes -has Mr Deering resigned or not?
It's amazing what end up in the public domain one should always act in an ethical manner.Quote:
Originally Posted by benbulben
If you wish to find out if Mr Deering resigned or not log into the following website, search for Bray Wanderers, Look for B10 forms and pay the fee to download them as I had to do. You can then satisfy your curiosity.Quote:
Originally Posted by benbulben
http://www.cro.ie/search/CompanySearch.aspx
Thanks for the link.So Mr Deering resigned-I don't know what all the stuff earlier in this thread is about.It seems a pity that all the people who feel so passionately about the club do not channel their energy into making it a success.Are there enough people in Bray /Wicklow/South Dublin who would get togetrher to get the club into good financial shape?
Hi Benbulben and welcome to the discussion, great place for a free exchange of ideas. Question is why has Bray Wanderers seen nothing but a stream of losses from the Board in recent years? All answers appreciated.Quote:
Originally Posted by benbulben
Im my opinion to take a loan and promise to pay back that loan and then decide not to pay back the loan back is deceitful, and certainly not something that should be found going on in a sporting club, it is just bad example for the young players, the followers and the sponsors.Quote:
Originally Posted by benbulben
Is this the image Wanderers want to have going forward, something like this can last a long time in the public memory.
The problem is that apart from the tiny clique that currently are involved they don't appear to want anyone else involved unless they are YES men. What is the point of that? They got rid of people who would not be YES men. People have tried to buy shares but the board has rejected their applications, these are people who obviously want to get involved but are not being allowed. IF one was a cynic you would think the clique know something that the rest of us don't know and that there is a large financial benefit due which they want to keep for themselves. So in theory you are right but in practice it wont be allowed to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by benbulben
That does niot make sense.Directors cannot give out shares-shareholders can onl do that -how long are the shareholders in place?Have they just come alog now thinking they can get something at the expense of the club? What financial benefit is there in the club ? There is a message on this thread say the ground is the Council's and if the club closes it reverts to the Council so what value is there on the club?
Hi Benbulben,Quote:
Originally Posted by benbulben
There is a lot about Bray Wanderers that does not make sense.
The place needs new young shareholders with an interest in the club but they are being denied a place.
You will see on past posts that the Directors were accused of reversing previous decisions at the behest of certain resentful shareholders who for a long time wanted to kick out other shareholders in the club. They also kicked out directors who had contributed greatly to the club.
All unbelievable but true and its a long runnining story.
That kind of behaviour is not on in the sports world and Bray Wanderers and going to end up with a brand image problem.
There is going to be a legacy left here on the club's image.
I'd also be worried about the effects on the reputation of the people who set up the situation.
Not to mention effects this type of behaviour has on morale, sponsers and how long it will take for this to be forgotten.
The story will be around for a long time as you know how people have a habit of draging up the past.
It's nice to see that the club are obviously confident of getting a Premier Division License with all the players they have signed. I'm sure all the creditors will be delighted too because at least they will get paid now.
Any idea when the licenses are announced, last year it was 15th Feb
Dean Marshall was playin for us last night. was he with ye last season?
Yeah he was with us for the 2nd half of the season. Decent enough with plenty of pace. Actually kind of surprised we didn't resign him seeing as Hanlon signed for Shels. I'd say he will do very well in the 1st division for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinho II
District Court case finally settled with costs, despite the fact that the club did not adhere to its original proposal of staged payments they settled in full before thy were due to appear in court again this month. There are now Circuit Court and probably a High Court case pending.Quote:
Originally Posted by Albatross
Three weeks tonight and we have the kick off to what promises an exciting new season.
Met some die hard Bohs and Rovers supporters this week and they were asking when will the Licence awards be made public.
By this time over the last few years they were announced by now.
What is going on?
Why is there a delay?
When will they be announced?
Anyone out there know something?
Over to you!!!!!!!!!!!
You have to ask yourself should a club:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dove
1. Who fires the financial director for no good reason other than because a certain shareholder wants rid of him and then tries not to pay him for his work.
2. Who gets rid of other directors for no good reason other than another back seat shareholder wants to get rid of them.
3. Who does these things for the improper reasons of getting themselves out of paying back loans they took.
I think the answer is obvious - this is no way to run a sporting club and it is a bad example to the followers of Irish football and to all those who want to see fair play as one of the most important standards to be upheld in any sport.
LETS MAKE IT A BIT CLEARER FOR READERS:
There was no good reason other than spite to get rid of the financial director.
The man was quite happy to continue working with the club. In fact he was instrumental in bringing in over 600k into the club. What thanks did he get?
Like others he was also generous enough to give loans to the club from his own pocket.
There is a story about how not to run a club, about how to indulge yourself in sharp practices and about how to loose friends and alienate people.
Stay tuned we haven't even reached the half time whistle yet.
You know you can talk about fixing matches and making illegal gambles on the outcome,
you can talk about stamping out racism in football,
you can talk about the prolems highlighted here,
but as long as the people involved in club management think they can act in ways that run contrary to what is taken as the normal standards of behaviour and as long as they feel free to make calls that just break their word when it suits them, then these sort of things will continue. Its time to do something about it and like all these things it starts at the grass roots.
Well said, it's time to clean up football and the FAI could start by carrying out random Financial Audits on clubs during the season, making sure players are being paid, and paid in line with their contracts, that amateur players are not being paid. The Revenue is up to date and creditors are being paid in line with credit terms. Clubs are more likely to behave if they can expect a visit at any time from the FAI and sanctions imposed for breaking rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by starryknight
Are you saying that there have been cases like you have listed that have happened internally in clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Albatross
If so do you have any evidence that would stand up to an investigation?
Two comments to your question:Quote:
Originally Posted by starryknight
1. It would be wrong to use the word "clubs" as in plural.
2. Everything that I post here is based on fact.
I hope that answers your question.
Any news on the lcensing?
Not YetQuote:
Originally Posted by benbulben
2013 - Season Start 8/03/2013
2012 were issued on 15th of Feb - Season Start 2/03/2011
2011 were issued on 14th of Feb - Season Start 4/03/2011
2010 I think was on 18th Feb - Season Start 5/03/2010
It looks like there is a delay for some reason or maybe not as the season starts later
Quote:
Originally Posted by benbulben
Looks to be officialQuote:
Originally Posted by brendy_éire
Club Licensing Committee Awards Licences for 2013 Season
Following a meeting of the Independent Club Licensing Committee, 14 Premier Division licences, 4 First Division licences and 1 conditional Premier Division licence were awarded.
Dundalk FC were awarded a conditional Premier Division Licence as the Licensing Committee requested further information regarding the transfer of ownership of the club.
Cobh Ramblers FC were previously awarded a First Division Licence by the Committee on January 23.
Clubs have five working days from the date of the decision notice to lodge an appeal.
Independent Cub Licensing Committee – 2013 Licences ;
Premier Licence
Bohemian FC, Bray Wanderers FC, Cork City FC, Derry City FC, Drogheda United FC , Shamrock Rovers FC, Shelbourne FC, Sligo Rovers FC, St Patrick's Athletic FC, UCD AFC, Athlone Town FC, Longford Town FC, Waterford United FC, Limerick FC, Dundalk FC (Conditional)
First Division Licence
Mervue United FC, Wexford Youths FC, Salthill Devon FC, Finn Harps FC, Cobh Ramblers FC
It is nice to see that the boys got their licence and managed to make the effort necessary to satisfy the FAI that they deserved one.
Of course the FAI are rightly only concerned with the facilities and the players’ conditions and not with the internal goings on at company level.
After all for the FAI to spend time looking at all the internal goings on and to try to keep high standards, other than that needed for players, would need big resources.
But those of you following this forum know that some other matters remain outstanding.
Don’t worry all you followers of Wanderers on foot.ie, more will reveal itself soon and you won't be dissappointed.
Still it is time to pause in this war of words for a little eight second breather and let the lads in those old portacabins reflect on their achievements to date.