Squad/Team v Russia/Slovakia

just a quick question here... does anybody agree with Trappatoni in that we are in a position to purposely exclude players from the squad for not showing up for training camps or for questioning his "autoritay"? I realise it is his show and he picks the squads i just cant get my head around how begrudging he can be and how many players have been frozen out by Trappatoni at this stage. Its quite damaging to irish football in my opinion at a time when the appeal international football to players and most other countries is on the wane anyway.

Why not quote me in full?

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Originally Posted by joe_denilson

I see your point, but its moot. Look, I'm not trying to get into an argument with you. I'd like to see McCarthy called up too. I agree he's a class act. He's not one for the future, he's one for now.

My point is this. He missed the last meaningful training camp. Trapattoni, in qualifier mode as I've already said, doesn't want to waste time teaching McCarthy the system. He's already on record saying that he'll be involved in November. He's already on record saying that Fahey and Green impressed and it'd be unfair to drop either. I'm not asking you to agree with Giovanni, I'm asking you to understand him. Capiche?.

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I've never said I wouldn't call him up, because I would. I explained more than once to you now why I think Trap hasn't called him up. What I (or you for that matter) would do if we were Ireland manager has no relevance because neither of us are international soccer managers. I referred to him as 7th choice because Giovanni has called up 6 central midfielders ahead of him in the last week. As I've said before I'm not trying to get in an argument with you, you called my initial point on this invalid with no evidence to back up your claim. Just relax.

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Originally Posted by joe_denilson

Why not quote me in full?

I've never said I wouldn't call him up, because I would. I explained more than once to you now why I think Trap hasn't called him up. What I (or you for that matter) would do if we were Ireland manager has no relevance because neither of us are international soccer managers. I referred to him as 7th choice because Giovanni has called up 6 central midfielders ahead of him in the last week. As I've said before I'm not trying to get in an argument with you, you called my initial point on this invalid with no evidence to back up your claim. Just relax.

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What are you on about?

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Originally Posted by greendeiseboy

What are you on about?

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Ah come on now, this is getting ridiculous, like talking to the wall.

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Originally Posted by greendeiseboy

Not really valid - A lot of the squads that he's named has had new players in it whether its for competitive games or not.

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Just forget about it.

So Fridays game. Line up is pretty iron cast yeah?
Given
O'Shea
Dunne
St Ledger
Kilbane
Lawrence
Whelan
Green
McGeady
Doyle
Keane

I think there is enough in the wide areas and up front to nick a goal and we'll obviously be looking for a clean sheet. Who plays right wing for Russia?

I think Duff starts every time if he's fit.

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Originally Posted by joe_denilson

I think there is enough in the wide areas and up front to nick a goal and we'll obviously be looking for a clean sheet. Who plays right wing for Russia?

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Is it not Everton's Bilyaletdinov?

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think Duff starts every time if he's fit.

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He's out of both games though isn't he?

This was their last line up and their preferred positions but I have no idea how they actually lined up.

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                Akinfeev
Anyukov        Berezutsky        Ignashevich        Zhirkov
                Shirokov                       
        Zyryanov        Semshov                       
        Arshavin        Dzagoev
                Pogrebnyak

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Originally Posted by Nah Nah Nah Nah

He's out of both games though isn't he?

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Only just heard that. He's effing jinxed. Still, Trap's a lucky manager because missing our best players regularly doesn't count as bad luck.

I've been watching Arshavin a fair bit for Arsenal and the guy is so inconsistent, even within games. He's capable of absolute brilliance and rank sloppiness at any time.

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Originally Posted by greendeiseboy

Yes, he missed the training camp but you have to remember that he's only 19 and last season was his first season playing at the top level. He did travel over to get assessed by the team doctor so it's not like he just made a phonecall. If Trapattoni is holding this against him it's very petty.

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Did McCarthy travel over before/after it was announced he was pulling out. I didn't read that he was assessed by the FAI doctor.

Marc Wilson called up, but seemingly due to Kelly & O'Dea's withdrawal rather than because of Andrews' withdrawal.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Marc Wilson called up, but seemingly due to Kelly & O'Dea's withdrawal rather than because of Andrews' withdrawal.

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Why do you say that?

Arshavin was muck against Chelsea but Chamakh was offering him absolutely nothing so I'd expect him to do better with Pogrebnyak or Pav up there.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Did McCarthy travel over before/after it was announced he was pulling out. I didn't read that he was assessed by the FAI doctor.

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About 10 paragraphs down

http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/mc...s-2274987.html

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Marc Wilson called up, but seemingly due to Kelly & O'Dea's withdrawal rather than because of Andrews' withdrawal.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Why do you say that?

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The Irish Times report contained the following account of Trapattoni's press conference - clearly Trap sees Wilson as defensive cover for Kelly and not as a midfield option.

Asked if he would call up any replacements, Trapattoni replied: “No, we have enough wingers here. With Stephen Kelly missing, we are a defender short, so we have called up Marc Wilson.”

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Originally Posted by joe_denilson

Who plays right wing for Russia?

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Ken Early just mentioned on Off The Ball that he asked a Russian journalist this earlier on, and it'll be Vladimir Bystrov of Zenit St Petersburg - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Bystrov - the fastest player in the Russian league apparently

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Originally Posted by EastTerracer

The Irish Times report contained the following account of Trapattoni's press conference - clearly Trap sees Wilson as defensive cover for Kelly and not as a midfield option.

Asked if he would call up any replacements, Trapattoni replied: “No, we have enough wingers here. With Stephen Kelly missing, we are a defender short, so we have called up Marc Wilson.”

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I wonder if he just got confused between Wilson and Coleman because surely there's no other reason for the latter's call-up.

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Originally Posted by geysir

If those reports have some truth, it would appear Keith Treacy has shot his Ireland career in the foot.

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Not sure have I missed something here? Preston have requested that Treacy is not called up as he needs treatment. Apparently he can only play 60 mins at the moment due to a groin problem.

Duffer is a big loss lads, even with his advancing years he is still probably our most creative outlet. With lawro on one wing, Duffer on the left, we have serious talent on the wings. Time for McGeady to step up (AGAIN!)

At the moment, Betfair has us slight favourites.

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Originally Posted by greendeiseboy

About 10 paragraphs down

http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/mc...s-2274987.html

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I would be more inclined to believe Trap than the Herald.
Traps press conf May 17
Trapattoni revealed that McCarthy 'is exhausted' after a run of 20 consecutive Premier League games with Wigan since January.
'I spoke with Roberto Martinez [Wigan manager] and he said McCarthy played a lot of games this season and needs a rest. I agreed and he will not be with us next week,' said Trapattoni

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Originally Posted by elroy

Not sure have I missed something here? Preston have requested that Treacy is not called up as he needs treatment. Apparently he can only play 60 mins at the moment due to a groin problem.

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I did write "if", because earlier report quoted Treacy as tired and welcomed a break. Later reports suggest the Preston requests for treatment.

I like the Italian system, trust nobody - call all the stragglers in and see how they are for yourself.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I wonder if he just got confused between Wilson and Coleman because surely there's no other reason for the latter's call-up.

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Not quite sure what you mean there. In my opinion, bringing Wilson into the squad means O'Shea will more than likely play full back, with Wilson as back up for the centre halves in the squad. Coleman's inclusion is as cover on the right for the injured Kelly.
Right now I think the pecking order is:
Left full: Kilbane - Cunningham
Centre half: Dunne - St Ledger - McShane - Wilson
Right Full: O'Shea - Foley - Coleman

With O'Shea providing cover for all positions, playing primarily on the right, the squad is reasonably well stocked in defence.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Right now I think the pecking order is:
Right Full: O'Shea - Foley - Coleman

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I hope you're right but I fear McShane is higher up the order for RB than you think

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Not quite sure what you mean there. In my opinion, bringing Wilson into the squad means O'Shea will more than likely play full back, with Wilson as back up for the centre halves in the squad. Coleman's inclusion is as cover on the right for the injured Kelly.
Right now I think the pecking order is:
Left full: Kilbane - Cunningham
Centre half: Dunne - St Ledger - McShane - Wilson
Right Full: O'Shea - Foley - Coleman

With O'Shea providing cover for all positions, playing primarily on the right, the squad is reasonably well stocked in defence.

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God I'd hope he'd stick O'Shea in centre half ahead of Calamity McShane.
Was watching the Thiery Henry handball incident the other day again on youtube and McShane really is unforgivable for letting that ball bounce....

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Originally Posted by Fixer82

God I'd hope he'd stick O'Shea in centre half ahead of Calamity McShane.
Was watching the Thiery Henry handball incident the other day again on youtube and McShane really is unforgivable for letting that ball bounce....

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It's a balancing act between O'Shea is his best, and IMO natural, position at centre half, where Trapattoni played him until St Ledger joined the squad. Unfortunately, this weakens the full back slots, but O'Shea at full back with two of Dunne, St Ledger and McShane gives a stronger overall defence.
Personally I'd go with O'Shea - Dunne - St Ledger - Foley, but I don't know if this is the game to give Foley his competitive debut in.

Gutted about losing Duff. I'm a lot less confident about picking up points now. Duff wins us plenty of free kicks and we look more threatening at set pieces since the Trap came in so it's a big loss.

Given

O'Shea St Ledger Dunne Kilbane

Lawrence Green Whelan McGeady

Keane Doyle

That is our team folks.

Is 4-4-2 and our team too predictable?

Is Green good enough? If Wilson was used to the system the Trap swears by we could have started with him.

Will Keane and Given be sharp enough after wasting away on the bench for their respective clubs?

They're the crucial questions alright, plus will KK be good enough. Whelan might be a bit rusty.

The positives are that our wide players have been on good form. I think the players will be hungry and well up for it.

KK marking the quickest player in the russian league, gives me the willys.

If Green starts I don't see us winning. It'll be hard enough to beat the Russians without Duff and Andrews. We don't need to give them a man advantage by starting Green.

Who would you rather see start in Green's stead?

Despite reservations, we have to be practical and stick with Green for this round of games. I'd have preferred Andrews to play -but he's injured. No more to be said there.

We can have a lengthy debate as to who should be in there but many of the suggestions would be uncapped, inexperienced in Trapp's methods or exiled (self imposed or otherwise).

Green has the jersey right now - so lets get on with it.

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Originally Posted by Predator

Who would you rather see start in Green's stead?

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A footballer.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

A footballer.

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Harsh - but funny.

Any thoughts on Russia's potential tactics??

Would "All out Blitzkrieg from the first minute" sound a bit melodramatic??

Didn't Wilson start out at left back with Portsmouth? Trap may see him as the man to replace Kilbane. Cunningham won't get anywhere near the pitch.

As for Green, I know he was poor in the last 2 games but I think he can pull something out of the bag for this one. He must feel that this is his last chance to nail down a regular starting spot with Andrews only out through injury and Gibson and McCarthy knocking at the door aswell.

I'm disappointed he hasn't called Ward and McCarthy up given the fact that we have lost 4 players through injury and only called up 2 to replace them!

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Any thoughts on Russia's potential tactics??

Would "All out Blitzkrieg from the first minute" sound a bit melodramatic??

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Bring it on -it's an excellent way to lose a football match. Blitzkrieg relies on excellent communications, well supported supply lines with back up second to none. If it goes even slightly off balance it falls through it's own @rse faster than a LIDL garden furniture set. If Russia try to chuck the kitchen sink -we'll take 'em.

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Originally Posted by Lenny82

Didn't Wilson start out at left back with Portsmouth? Trap may see him as the man to replace Kilbane. Cunningham won't get anywhere near the pitch.

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I don't think so, he may have played a few games at right full alright, but he came through the ranks as a defensive central midfielder, and can also play at centre half.

I think Lenny means his first couple of competitive games for Portsmouth were at left full, which is correct (UEFA Cup and Carling Cup I believe).

But you're right Tets when you say his position in the reserves/underage levels was defensive midfielder.

I was impressed with Wilson when I did see him play those games at left full, but it is difficult to judge UEFA Cup group stage matches and the Carling Cup....putting him at left full against Russia would perhaps be a needless gamble. I wouldn't be against him slotting in at right full and O'Shea moving to left full though.

This is one of the worst Irish squads I've seen in years. Robbie and Shay are not playing football,Whelan is just back from injury and the loss of Duff is terrible. To confound that the persistence with KK who is not playing much football in the 2nd division is astounding. How do you get dropped from a Trap team? Do you have to be Stephen or Andy Reid. I know we don't have strength in depth but surely even a lazy manager like Trap who picks lazy squads can see that Green,McShane,Andrews,KK,O'Dea,Sheridan and lots more are just poor players. I'd rather we blooded the next generation instead of leaving a situation like Jack left for Mick in 96.

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Originally Posted by ShamrockIreland

This is one of the worst Irish squads I've seen in years. Robbie and Shay are not playing football,Whelan is just back from injury and the loss of Duff is terrible. To confound that the persistence with KK who is not playing much football in the 2nd division is astounding. How do you get dropped from a Trap team? Do you have to be Stephen or Andy Reid. I know we don't have strength in depth but surely even a lazy manager like Trap who picks lazy squads can see that Green,McShane,Andrews,KK,O'Dea,Sheridan and lots more are just poor players. I'd rather we blooded the next generation instead of leaving a situation like Jack left for Mick in 96.

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He's blooded Sledge, Lawrence, Whelan, Andrews (who was immense in Paris), Fahey, Foley, Westwood, Keogh and now Coleman and Wilson. He's maintained a balance between thinking to the future and remaining competitive. With a few exceptions (McCarthy, A.Reid, maybe Ward) who else could he call up? This is a team for now, and we should be challenging for qualification. Trap's results to date have proved as much.

Not Trap's fault players like Keane and Whelan are only on the bench or injured, or that no left back is playing well at a high level. Ward has been clumsy at times so far this season and isn't making a compelling case, much as I'd like him to.

The squad / team is what it is. Any controversies are marginal in my opinion. And Swan is correct in observing the balance between experience and emerging talent. By and large we've got good players in many positions but since 2002 (for the first time in a few generations of Irish teams) we've lacked a really high quality CMer. The system is designed to make up for that.