Trapp. Please give these lads a chance.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

i watched, thought he was good, but i dont think i would go to far as to say he was the best. They all did well, nothing spectacular.

the thing is they probably could have won it had they sent out their best side....

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I would agree. He was mostly solid (made a couple of mistakes) but rarely spectacular. He was one of Bolton's best players though in a night where few of their team shined.

My only worry with Joey is that he looks much bigger and more sluggish since his long lay off for his injury. I remember at Sheffield Wednesday he looked more dynamic and seemed to have an extra yard of pace. He scored a few goals there also. I hope his injury isn't continuing to have a negative effect on his development.

Saying that if O'Brien is regularly playing the holding role for Bolton though (as he has been doing for the last few weeks) I'd stick him in the Ireland team ahead of Carsley who I think is a nothing player. Joey can at least pass the ball and is decent in the air (useful in a midfield of short arses). I'm aware he was rubbish against Cyprus in the same position but he hadn't played there for Bolton at the time in a long time (about a year and a half).

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Originally Posted by youngirish

I'd stick him in the Ireland team ahead of Carsley who I think is a nothing player. Joey can at least pass the ball and is decent in the air (useful in a midfield of short arses). I'm aware he was rubbish against Cyprus in the same position but he hadn't played there for Bolton at the time in a long time (about a year and a half).

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You don't get in that Everton team by being a 'nothing' player.

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Originally Posted by livehead1

You don't get in that Everton team by being a 'nothing' player.

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Just don't rate him man. Before the Cyprus away debacle under Stan nobody was clamouring for him to be in our team. Afterwards when he was recalled and we drew with the Czechs everyone was saying how essential he was in the holding midfield role. However in the course of the campaign he didn't really make any difference to our results. We still had some terrible results when he was playing and conceeded some atrocious goals. He offers nothing going forward either which I believe a good International defensive midfielder should provide on occasion (unfortunately this is also a problem with O'Brien at present). I really believe we need to find a better option in that position if we want to beat Bulgaria to second spot in the group.

Our only possible alternatives available now or on the horizon before the campaign kicks into gear are S Reid, J O'Brien or Garvan.

Actually critical postions that need sorting for Ireland before our campaign kicks off are:

Left Back
Right Back (hopefully Fnnan will come back)
Centre Back (McShane, Ledger or O'Dea need to step up their game within the next 6 months)
Holding Midfield

We have no hope of qualifying if O'Shea, Carsley, S Kelly and Kilbane are all starting regularly in the same team.

You would stick him in ahead of Carsley?

Talk sense man. Carsley has done nothing wrong. Albeit not his biggest fan and while we have performed dreadfully in some games since Cyprus - we haven't conceeded many goals. Trapp would pisk Carsley before O Brien to hold midfield. What about the home game against Cyprus???????????????? He was shocking!!!!!

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Our only possible alternatives available now or on the horizon before the campaign kicks into gear are S Reid, J O'Brien or Garvan.

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the old s reid for ctre mid rears its head again. just dont see him being a better option than carsley. hopefully he proves me wrong but have seen nothing in s reaid that convinces me he can do a job for us in any position

the other two are untried and yet to be proven. carsley is our best option at the moment and seems to be playing really well for everton (currently 4th in the EPL)

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Just don't rate him man. Before the Cyprus away debacle under Stan nobody was clamouring for him to be in our team. Afterwards when he was recalled and we drew with the Czechs everyone was saying how essential he was in the holding midfield role. However in the course of the campaign he didn't really make any difference to our results. We still had some terrible results when he was playing and conceeded some atrocious goals. He offers nothing going forward either which I believe a good International defensive midfielder should provide on occasion (unfortunately this is also a problem with O'Brien at present). I really believe we need to find a better option in that position if we want to beat Bulgaria to second spot in the group.

Our only possible alternatives available now or on the horizon before the campaign kicks into gear are S Reid, J O'Brien or Garvan.

Actually critical postions that need sorting for Ireland before our campaign kicks off are:

Left Back
Right Back (hopefully Fnnan will come back)
Centre Back (McShane, Ledger or O'Dea need to step up their game within the next 6 months)
Holding Midfield

We have no hope of qualifying if O'Shea, Carsley, S Kelly and Kilbane are all starting regularly in the same team.

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YI, id very much agree with this stance, I was thinking that we lack a player that has a get up and go and a driving force attitude on the pitch. Its a pity, cos thats what we really need to qualify, and when you have a player like that in a holding/defensive midfield role it can be a real catalyst. A la keane/mcgrath/townsend sorta player, in attitude I mean.

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Originally Posted by BigmanCas

Talk sense man. Carsley has done nothing wrong. Albeit not his biggest fan and while we have performed dreadfully in some games since Cyprus - we haven't conceeded many goals.

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Doesn't anyone think this might be more to do with kicking big nose A O'Brien out of the team (who was terrible against Cyprus and hadn't played regular football in months) and replacing Paddy Kenny with Shay Given than just the introduction of Carsley? Anyway we still conceeded shocking goals to Slovakia, San Marino and Wales.

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Originally Posted by BigmanCas

What about the home game against Cyprus???????????????? He was shocking!!!!!

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As mentioned previously he was only back after a season of injury. I hope he would do a far better job if he's playing regularly in this position for Bolton (this has to be a condition for his inclusion).

Anyway it needn't be O'Brien that replaces Carsley. I'm happy enough to try other alternatives. Carsley is a pretty poor player let's be honest. Only JOS and Kilbane are less deserving of a place in our starting 11.

Well it's back to my old rant. I think we need 2 men protecting the back four and freeing up/complimenting the more creative technical players at our disposal.

Didn't see O'Brien but pleased at what I have read.

This now gives a bit of depth for those anchoring players so now it's two from Carsley, SReid and O'Brien.

With Ireland or Andy Reid ahead flanked by two from Duff, McGeady and Keane

With a lone front man to do a thankless job of tying to provide an arial threat, work the channels, hold the ball up and bring others into the game.

I've said this a few times but I think this formation compliments the players we have at our disposal and provides consistency by insulating the formation from absences of Key personnel. Not to mention having Steven Hunt and arguably Liam Lawrence for a plan B.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Just don't rate him man. Before the Cyprus away debacle under Stan nobody was clamouring for him to be in our team. Afterwards when he was recalled and we drew with the Czechs everyone was saying how essential he was in the holding midfield role. However in the course of the campaign he didn't really make any difference to our results. We still had some terrible results when he was playing and conceeded some atrocious goals.

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I don't know about clamor, there was a thread during the club pre season friendly time before the Qual. campaign and the majority saw a role for him in the squad/team. Before the German game, again there were calls for him to be in the team, increasing before the Cyprus game.
He has been the best fit option for CM.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Doesn't anyone think this might be more to do with kicking big nose A O'Brien out of the team (who was terrible against Cyprus and hadn't played regular football in months) and replacing Paddy Kenny with Shay Given than just the introduction of Carsley? Anyway we still conceeded shocking goals to Slovakia, San Marino and Wales.


As mentioned previously he was only back after a season of injury. I hope he would do a far better job if he's playing regularly in this position for Bolton (this has to be a condition for his inclusion).

Anyway it needn't be O'Brien that replaces Carsley. I'm happy enough to try other alternatives. Carsley is a pretty poor player let's be honest. Only JOS and Kilbane are less deserving of a place in our starting 11.

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There was no presence in the centre of the park against Cyprus in Cyprus. Kevin Kilbane was deployed in the role. While not ideal - he had absolutely no support from Stephan Ireland. Carsley is our only recognised holding midfielder.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

I think need to look seriously when they declare there's a "crisis" at left back when Kilbane hasn't put a foot wrong in that position.

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Did you actually watch him play left full in the Cyprus and Brazil games?
He was woefully out of position, kept moving into the centre of defence and gave the opposing wingers an acre of space to move into

well if he thinks "harte can come into FORM", then he must be in cuckoo land. Harte was never in form. doesnt have a clue.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Did you actually watch him play left full in the Cyprus and Brazil games?
He was woefully out of position, kept moving into the centre of defence and gave the opposing wingers an acre of space to move into

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You missed his worst performance there against the Dutch at home. God he was terrible. He made John O'Sh*te look like Roberto Carlos.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

Look at any of our games over the past 2 years. The problem has never been sloppy defending (or well the main problem at least). The problem has been in midfield, mainly keeping possession and passing. I think need to look seriously when they declare there's a "crisis" at left back when Kilbane hasn't put a foot wrong in that position. I think the "crisis" is that we need a functioning midfield that can win the possession game and bring our strikers into the game.

We can worry about average full backs later though even then I think it's a non issue. Dunne, O Shea, Kelly, Kilbane and McShane are all competent premiership defenders. We're fine with 4 of those. If Finnan and O Brien return and Harte hits form again we're laughing.
I swear if some people around here had their way they'd have our entire team full of under 23 championship players. :rolleyes:

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My God I have heard it all now. I don't know how old you are or how long you have been watching football, but one thing I have managed to figure out is that you don't know very much about it. We will be laughing when Ian Harte hits form according to you. I think you are having a laugh by even mentioning his name, maybe I am wrong and i hope i am but I will be surprised if both Finnan and O'Brien come back.
You then go on to say that Dunne, O Shea, Kelly, Kilbane and McShane are all competent premiership defenders. Richard Dunne is the only one unless you have seen something in the others that I sure have not.
We have the nucleus of a good team, about 15 players as was mentioned earlier and we have some very good players who play week in week out in the championship. Many of them are very close to being as good as some in that 15.I am sure a few will be playing premiership football next year therefore using your reasoning should jump up into the top ten or so. Anyway I would love for you to go watch a few championship games and watch out for the Irish lads playing in them.Then come back in a few months and I bet your assessment and view on these players will be a whole lot more positive.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

I think need to look seriously when they declare there's a "crisis" at left back when Kilbane hasn't put a foot wrong in that position. I think the "crisis" is that we need a functioning midfield that can win the possession game and bring our strikers into the game.

We can worry about average full backs later though even then I think it's a non issue. Dunne, O Shea, Kelly, Kilbane and McShane are all competent premiership defenders.

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Wow! We clearly DO have an issue at left back. We have been using players out of position for a long time in that position. You talk about not needing to look at the championship, but we really do need to look thoroughly around other divisions aside from the Premier League because we don't have anyone who is a natural left back. I'm really hoping that O'Halloran can start getting games as he seems like the solution.

If Kilbane is playing at left back again in an Ireland shirt then pay close attention to him. If he is to play for us at left back then he needs to seriously improve his positioning, otherwise he's not deserving of a place there. At the momentI would go with O'Shea, although again, it's not his best position either IMO. As for Harte coming back, after seeing him against San Marino I am hoping he never plays for us again. I have nothing against him, but from open play he adds absolutely nothing to the side.

Why do you continue to have a go at people saying we should look to the championship? Surely a championship player who has comparable ability to someone in his position in the premiership is a better bet if they are playing regularly football and the Premiership player isn't? Look what happened with Andy O'Brien in Cyprus. We should be looking for the best talent, irrespective of which club they play for. It's that attitude that has caused England to play Lampard and Gerrard in the same team for years and then wonder why they underachieve.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

You missed his worst performance there against the Dutch at home. God he was terrible. He made John O'Sh*te look like Roberto Carlos.

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You sure he played left full in that game?
Accoridng to this - http://www.soccerscene.ie/sssenior/m...ils.php?id=422 - Finnan, O'Shea, Andy O'Brien and Carr were the defenders that day, surely one of Finnan or Carr was left full?

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Just checked the post match thread here - http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=38516&highlight=finnan - Finnan started at left full

If I remember correctly Kilbane dropped back to LB when Carr went off at half time.... I remember that defense being taken apart again and again.... For a while it looked like we had a back three of John O'Shea, Andy O'Brien and Kevin Kilbane. I don't think my heart has ever quite recovered.

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Originally Posted by Diarmo

If I remember correctly Kilbane dropped back to LB when Carr went off at half time.... I remember that defense being taken apart again and again.... For a while it looked like we had a back three of John O'Shea, Andy O'Brien and Kevin Kilbane. I don't think my heart has ever quite recovered.

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True he switched to left back in the second half and we were subsequently torn apart due to some terrible positioning at the back and the poorest rehearsed offside trap in the history of International football.

In defence if Harte he might be getting first team football right now if Stokes didn't redirect two perfect free kicks wide of the goal in that premier league game he started.

liam lawrence has been one of the best midfielders in the championship over the last couple of months, always liked him when he was with sunderland never got a real chance for ireland though. would definatly give him a few games. same for clinton, had a decent record for us, no matter what anyone says. should be looking at owen garvan from b'burns reserves too, lovely player! not to start yet but maybe to just bring him into the squad and bring him on and in a couple of years he could be very good