Brian Kerr Documentary

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Originally Posted by klein4

as always you miss the point totally...

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Of course I do.:rolleyes: Kerr with Keane < McCarthy with Keane. Kerr without Keane < McCarthy without Keane. What's your point again?

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Originally Posted by klein4

Yhey were two penalties you would be lucky to get on another day.

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They were not two penalties you would be lucky to get on another day. The second one was quite clearly a penalty. jbyrne has mentioned chances we got and they way the game turned as well - you're on your own if you don't believe that was a good performance.

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Originally Posted by klein4

what results did they get in the campaign we actually played them in? surely that would be of greater relevance? no??? I dont remember them being in contention at any stage.

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They drew with Macedonia. They drew with Lithuania. They drew with us. We dropped all of two points to them. It was one poor performance against a team who, I will still maintain, were not bad but were semi-decent. Which has been my view of them the whole time.

If this were a boxing match, I think the fight would have been stopped ages ago. Even eirebhoy's coming around. I'm getting dizzy from going around in circles, so I'm going to (try to) step out of this thread and add your good self to my ignore list...

I don't think you will find too many on this board that have much time for the FAI so bringing up their decision to give McCarty a third term doesn't really have any relevance when discussing Kerr. Likewise McCarty's record compared to Kerrs is irrelevent IMO. Either you think Kerr wasn't good enough and it was time to change or you think he would have improved given more time so should have been given another contract.

Personally I don't think he showed any sign of learning from the mistakes made earlier this year, a fact reinforced by his refusal last night to take any blame whatsoever for not qualifying from a **** poor group.

The difference between McCarthy and Kerr was that McCarthy seemed to be making progress (until the last two games) as he went along while Kerr seemed to be going backwards.

Heat on for Irish and Kerr
Tom Humphries In Limassol




Football re-asserts itself in Nicosia at teatime this evening. For that we can all give much thanks. It has been a long and bitter week and although the Irish hover right now somewhere between disaster and success, the tendency has been to accentuate the negative.

It is four years since Ireland last played here. That was another difficult week. Mick McCarthy's father Charlie passed away on the eve of the game while on the field of play Cyprus offered up a resistance which wasn't in evidence in the final scoreline of 4-0 to the visitors.

That night it took an astonishing performance from Roy Keane to haul the Republic of Ireland through the game. He scored two goals but more significantly inflicted his will and desire on everything and everybody. Jason McAteer came off the field in Nicosia that night quite shaken from the constant haranguing. The job got done, though.

It should get done tonight also but there is an awareness that by comparison this is a callow team which Brian Kerr brings to Nicosia. Keane is unavailable. Gary Kelly, Gary Breen and Jason McAteer are missing for one reason or another. With them goes a large amount of the passionate leadership from which that team drew.

Kerr conceded yesterday that his side hadn't perhaps performed to the height of his own expectations in this campaign. Previous disappointments have turned up the heat here in Cyprus.

"It certainly hasn't been for the want of effort or graft or commitment to the cause," he observed. "We haven't had the results that either they or I would have liked. We've had a few unlucky breaks here and there, we haven't had that slice of luck but I wouldn't be in any way critical. They've given their best. It was a fine line against France the only game we have lost. I'm disappointed we haven't got more points, but if we get enough at the end I'll be happy."

Kerr's words reflect the fact that as his first full campaign as Irish manager draws to an end there are two ways of judging his tenure thus far. With a declining and sometimes unavailable Roy Keane and with a largely unexceptional and notably leaderless bunch of players he has played it safe and kept Ireland in contention till the death.

That's not a very sexy argument to take to the barricades and even those of us who would promote that viewpoint must concede that there indeed have been some bad days at the office for Kerr and some disappointingly pallid performances from his team.

One can add that we in the media work with the significant benefit of hindsight, that at the moment of Robbie Keane's departure (having scored once but having been deserving of a hat-trick) from the Israel game at Lansdowne Road none of us stood up and shouted for Stephen Elliott to come on, none of us could have legislated for John O'Shea wrapping himself around a forward, a Greek referee giving a dubious penalty and then Avi Nimni poking it home.

Then there is the other point of view which believes that Kerr's Irish side haven't beaten a top-80 side in a competitive game in the three years of his reign, that we have dropped points needlessly from positions of strength and that the media palaver and fuss of the past week has been counterproductive and self-damaging.

That all becomes irrelevant this evening. Anything less than a win here ends the discussion about Brian Kerr's future as Ireland manager. Anything less than a win ends any moral claim Ireland have to a World Cup finals place. And yet when the final whistle goes if that win is secured it immediately becomes quite irrelevant too. There are no garlands on offer for beating a Cyprus team whose only four points in the campaign so far have come at the expense of the Faroe Islands.

Ireland will evacuate Cyprus immediately after the game and head home to begin concentrating on Wednesday's tie with Switzerland who are playing France tonight.

The French are also in action on Wednesday when they entertain Cyprus in Paris, a relatively easy conclusion to their schedule and one which is expected to provide them with an automatic pass to next year's finals.

The Ireland squad altered their schedule yesterday, opting not to train in the morning heat and travelling instead to Nicosia last night to train at the GSP Stadium at match time.

Kerr was giving away very little about the make-up of his side but hinted strongly that Graham Kavanagh of Premiership newcomers Wigan Athletic would play in the centre of midfield.

Of those players carrying knocks the news was mostly good. Steven Reid is expected to be match-fit.

Damien Duff has a cut on his foot with stitches in it but he has trained fully every day. Stephen Carr retains a little soreness around his wounded knee but again he is likely to be fit to take the field.

So to the bottom line. If Ireland win tonight and win again on Wednesday night they will go into a play-off for the World Cup finals. Beyond that the permutations are many and ever more forlorn. The game and the nature of the week which has preceded it makes it about more than qualification, however. It is about how Brian Kerr, the only Irish soccer manager to have ever won anything of significance, will be remembered.

The minimum price of those four missing points from the games against Israel is that there will be debate and pressure. It all began this week. It was unedifying but unsurprising. Only six points and a play-off will end it.

FAI's silence has damaged Kerr more than trigger-happy media




Tom Humphries feels Brian Kerr has not played tactically cute in his hard-ball game with the FAI

Remember Jack Charlton? Big, blunt Geordie whose tactical sophistication ran no further than giving it a lash? Wouldn't have known a spin doctor from a witch doctor? Well, scorn not his simplicity. Charlton understood two very basic things about the media.

First. Managers get paid not to take media too seriously or too personally.

Second. Editors abhor a vacuum. When you give 60-second press conferences, when you send in fringe players to speak to the media, you create a vacuum. It gets filled with speculation and opinion and conjecture. If there's one thing soccer people hate, it's media opinion.

And in the Irish papers this week there has been much media opinion. Six points left to play for and everyone was reaching conclusions. The evidence is still not fully submitted but the jury was issuing verdicts.

Times have changed since Jack strode among us, but the truths are eternal. The media is easy to satisfy. The media is not like Oliver, constantly wanting more. The media asks for sufficient.

If 60 or 70 media people gather in a room on the week of a World Cup game for a press conference, they expect to be speaking to somebody who will actually play in the game.

This week, the media, who have paid through the nose to come to Cyprus, were allowed to speak to Paddy Kenny, Keith Doyle, Liam Miller, Andy O'Brien and Gary Doherty. The Expendables, insufficient to the point of being an insult.

If the media goes to a training session in the expectation of being given a five-minute, pitch-side briefing, as per the official media guide, they expect the briefing to happen. On Tuesday it didn't happen at all. On Wednesday it lasted just over 60 seconds. Again, insufficient.

So, in the most important week for Irish soccer since the last World Cup, the media and the Irish squad were engaged in a phoney war which need not have happened. It has been distracting, dispiriting and disappointing.

Why did it happen? Why has media professionalism in the FAI never advanced beyond the old McCarthyite view of the media either being "in the tent ****ing out or outside the tent ****ing in". Why? Because nobody wants it to change.

The FAI this week were letting the media do the dirty work, as usual. You would think that after Saipan, after Genesis, after the messy end to the McCarthy era that lessons would be learned? They have.

When it comes to ditching a manager, it takes the pressure off if you let the media soften him up a bit first.

Brian Kerr's team play football tonight. The kick-off in Nicosia will put an end to one of the more bizarre weeks in the already quite bizarre recent history of the Irish soccer team.

Playing football will be a welcome return to business as usual, but Kerr will feel the bruises on his body and the burns on his neck. He was left dangling from a tree this week and he was beaten with sticks like a pinata.

After the week he has had it is important to remember that, whatever happens on the pitch over the next few days, and whatever goes down in the bloodstained boardrooms of the FAI over the next few weeks, Brian Kerr will remain potentially a great Irish manager. Whether he gets the chance to realise that potential depends largely on the convergence of several sets of circumstances.

Lie down. Imagine you are Brian Kerr. Go back in time a little way. Picture yourself approaching the final three games of a tense World Cup qualifying group. France. Cyprus. Switzerland.

Could you please list in order of horror which of the following you would need like a hole in the head. Best player and leader suspended and injured? Only decent striker pictured on the razz at 4am? Other half-decent striker suspended? Half of your team not getting regular football? Employers leaving you dangling over the issue of a new contract? War with the media?

On Wednesday evening at Larnaca Airport a member of the Kerr backroom team could be found musing aloud as he stood near the baggage carousel. "Am I mad?" he said, "or are we six points away from a World Cup play-off? Do we have an away game against Cyprus and a home game against Switzerland to make the play-offs? Is it just me that thinks that?"

He had a point, but if the message has got lost this week, a time which demanded the relentless accentuation of the positive, then it is not, for once, the media who are entirely to blame.

Brian Kerr, the FAI and the players handled things badly, and the entire tone of the week has been negative and defensive. From Le Meridien Hotel in Limassol there issues the scent of fear and loathing. The odd thing is that, if it all goes wrong this week, only Kerr will be paying the price.

Perhaps it will all come good. If next Thursday morning transpires, though, to

be a time for reflection and regret, it

would be best to divide all the circumstances which got us there into those which could have been avoided and those which couldn't have been.

It's important to remember that there are things which Brian Kerr can do nothing about.

He can do nothing about who gets to play in English Premiership teams. The paucity of our resources, though, was never better highlighted than during the ludicrous fuss which followed young Stephen Ireland having a good debut for Manchester City last week.

If a 19-year-old who seems already to have a record of placing petulance above patriotism (Ireland has apparently announced he will never play for Kerr) is hailed as a solution, well, then the problem is more crippling than we thought.

Brian Kerr can do nothing about the past. We have somehow arrived at a state of mind where we assume we have the right to be at every major soccer tournament. We don't have the right and we don't have the players.

Brian Kerr can do nothing about the psychological make-up of his players. He has some technically gifted footballers at his disposal. He has few leaders. He has few big men. He doesn't have anybody who will grab a game by the scruff of the neck and win it on his own.

That's the hand Brian Kerr has been dealt. Fintan Drury alluded to as much on the radio this week. Kerr was quick to point out that Drury wasn't speaking on his behalf at the time, but what Drury said wasn't nearly as big a deal as the space it occupied suggested.

Obviously, the wisdom of the manager's agent commenting on team affairs is moot, but taken as a contribution to the debate the point itself bears argument.

None of these guys are leaders. None of them are of the quality which persuades one that collectively they should grace any tournament of world-class players. We get to tournaments by punching above our weight.

To the list of things about which Brian Kerr can do nothing (at this stage) could be added Roy Keane's absence, the structure of his contractual arrangements with the FAI and the re-emergence of a clatter of world-class French players. He could add to his list of untimely misfortunes the recent regime change at the Irish Independent, which has seen a notable stiffening of the line on his stewardship.

Will all this be taken into account by Kerr's employers, or are they already rushing girlishly after some big man in a suit and looking to ditch Kerr regardless? How did the Irish manager come to be engaging in the sideshow of a major media bunfight in the most important working week of his life? How did he get to Cyprus with a World Cup play-off spot beckoning (the very route by which Mick McCarthy's long reign was redeemed) and find the clouds gathering over him, the mood sour and the Cypriots chuckling to themselves?

As Brian Kerr bumbled through his media engagements this week, the spotlight on him served only to emphasise the isolation he must feel.

Those who know Brian Kerr will say the job hasn't changed him much, that behind the tight public face he is still essentially the same likeable, genial character who took the job three years ago and was welcomed into the Shelbourne Hotel for his firstpress conference with garlands and palm leaves.

Those who know him lament, though, that he can't bring himself to perform for the media as if nothing has happened to alter that happy relationship. It's not, they say, that Kerr didn't expect criticism and pressure when he took the job, he just didn't realise it would hurt so much.

Kerr suffers a disadvantage not felt by an Irish manager since Eoin Hand's days: he lives in Dublin. He can pretend to ignore what is said and what is written, but it is all around him. He lives in and breathes the same atmosphere.

Much of what is written is penned by people he knows personally and has known for a long time. Kerr can't bring himself to pretend he doesn't notice.

Early in his reign, the first hint that his media hand would be less steady than other aspects of his talents came when he steadfastly refused to meet the group of English journalists who cover the Irish team for a get-to-know-you lunch.

His argument that they hadn't wanted to get to know him before he became Irish manager was dubious, at best, but if he decided to tread gingerly with the English media it was the home-based contingent he was failing to cater for.

Part of Kerr's problem this week lay in his inability to fake it. There was a smarter way to handle matters, but it ran against his grain. Also, he may have miscalculated.

Take the issue of the contract. There are some of us who believe no Irish manager should be allowed to go into two crucial World Cup games with the smell of death on him. It didn't happen to Mick McCarthy. It didn't happen to Jack Charlton.

It has happened to Brian Kerr. The manager didn't help his situation, however, by directly answering a question on the business last week.

His words, to the effect that he was trying to find out what was going on about his contract but nobody was telling him, were oddly chosen, but, one assumes, deliberately chosen. Yesterday, in Limassol, he defended his right to give an honest answer to the question, but as a manager he is sufficiently astute at deflecting questions to have known he could have batted this one off the agenda.

In the power-play between himself and the FAI, Kerr will have realised that shedding a little light on his employers hard-ball tactics will have upped the ante a little. The FAI, however, have remained inscrutable and left the media vacuum to be filled willy nilly. The issue blew up in the media and did collateral damage to Kerr.

The media response this week seems just a little pre-emptive and trigger-happy, but there has been a sense these last few days that the criticism has almost been licensed by the FAI's indifference to media matters and their willingness to let the Irish manager squirm without issuing the sort of statement of strong support which previous managers drew comfort from.

Kerr is an emotional man too. If he doesn't like you, it's not in his make-up to pretend that he does. If he is uncomfortable with questions, you don't have to examine his words to find how uncomfortable.

His face tightens, his neck stiffens and he rolls his head like a boxer before answering.

Nobody questions that he has had some bad luck, that he is professional and meticulous and has an honourable view of how Ireland should or could play football. But his inability to simulate emotions is his Achilles' heel, and his opponents and detractors within the FAI, men with lean and hungry looks, are easily smart enough to sit back and see him hoist upon his own petard.

Kerr's expression of bewilderment about his contract will have garnered some sympathy from a public which holds lots of residual goodwill towards him since his days as a youth team miracle worker.

How the contract comments played to the Irish players is another thing. Yesterday, in Limassol, his captain Kenny Cunningham was circumspect when offered the chance to step in and slug for his boss. He spoke of respect for the manager, but of players being essentially selfish beings. Watery stuff.

With Kerr's blood turning that water orange and then red, a media feeding frenzy has ensued. Not shark-like bites. Piranha-size nibbles.

Unfair? Probably.

Premature? Certainly.

Avoidable? Definitely.

If Brian Kerr pulls six points out of the bag in the next few days the entire view of his tenure will be up for review. When a team qualifies for a major competition the means to that end is forgotten about. If the team make a play-off, he will be judged almost exclusively on how the play-off unfolds.

In the interim, everyone, including the media and the FAI, is entitled to give their own answer when asked what they think of the show so far.

The FAI, however, owe a little more to their international manager and a man who has provided them with so much over the last decade. This week he was left unprotected.

The silence concerning his contact position was deafening. That the FAI see the role of public relations as being to indulge the petulance of the international team by protecting them from exposure to the scurvy media became clearer than ever this week. With nothing to write about and a very large bill to be paid for the privilege of coming to write, the house fell down on Kerr.

The odd thing is that in aping the media tactics of the English FA (who are otherwise without competition when it comes to the winning awards for most disastrous media relations), the FAI have gone further and refined the technique of withholding into one of calculated insult.

While Irish hacks were wondering what to do with five or six minutes of banal Paddy Kenny quotes this week, they were watching Sky News and seeing their colleagues with the England team speaking with Steven Gerrard, Jamie Carragher, Peter Crouch, Frank Lampard, Darren Bent and others.

To put that into context, this was an English team coming off a defeat to Northern Ireland, players who have been through the full tabloid mill and an English manager whose every peccadillo and venality has been blown up and magnified for the edification of the English audience. And there they were going about their business like professionals.

Deep down, Brian Kerr appreciates that two views of his tenure are possible. He concedes not everything has been peachy. If he didn't, he wouldn't be as smart a man as we gave him credit for.

His opponents and detractors within the FAI are easily as smart as we give them credit for, though, and must look on with thin smiles as Kerr immolates himself in front of the media.

Every instinct of Kerr's being must tell him that it would be smarter to play the game . . . And yet, in Le Meridien Hotel (where a cordon sanitaire has been erected and only paying guests are allowed past the front door this week) the view was indulged that it was unhelpful and unpatriotic for all these arguments to be rehearsed this week.

Nobody from the FAI did anything to fill the void, though. Instead, there were new and frankly ludicrous restrictions on TV crews and photographers at team training. There were no player quotes. No co-operation other than what was mandatory. The pressure on Kerr got ratcheted up subtly.

The harsh fact is that with players hiding or sulking, with Brian Kerr having put the issue on the table himself and with space to fill, practically all coverage this week was going to, at best, have the feel of an end-of-term report.

Every criticism gathered like a storm cloud over the manager's head. If you were holding Brian Kerr's new contract in a drawer in your desk, perhaps you'd smile too.

Kerr's isolation this week was awful and agonising to watch. He made mistakes and he paid the full price. That's been the way right through this campaign on and off the field. Somebody said to him yesterday that he used to have the reputation of being a lucky manager - did he still feel lucky?

He smiled tightly. Sometimes you have bad luck.

Sometimes you have bosses who play the game well.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I'm getting dizzy from going around in circles, so I'm going to (try to) step out of this thread and add your good self to my ignore list...

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make sure you take your ball with you as well ya poor thing.........

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Originally Posted by Macy

Regardless of your views on Kerr as Ireland Manager - the spinning and "reporting" was a disgrace, and no one in their right mind would want this job while the same people are about.

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I agree 100%. If the situation was handled with a bit more decorum Kerr could have taken up another role in irish football which he would obviously be good at. There's no chance now that that'll happen. The FAI's actions were very focused on the short term.

I still don't accept that Kerr did anything particularly wrong. I don't accept the argument that Elliot should have come on against Israel in Lansdown. If he had a cold he had a cold, end of story. We might have liked things to be different but they weren't.

It's obvious though that the team wasn't playing well, I sometimes still have nightmares about that game in Cyprus. It seemed obvious to me that a change was needed and the only thing that can be changed in an international team is the manager.

After going through this thread, I can see that only a few people are actually making sense here. Pineapple stu is spot on with everything he says. Klein4 is talking his usual nonsense, while eirebhoy (who in fairness is the most educated Ireland fan on this forum) is making all types of excuses for Kerr.

I didn't even read Tom Humphreys' ****. I think he's just a fat man who was never good enough to play sport and certainly can't write about it. He's a **** journalist, who has been put on a pedistol, mainly because Roy Keane (a man with **** all formal education) rates him. It's ironic because Humphreys has been spinning stories as long as I can remember. He's more of a GAA man anyway. There are only a handful of journalists who can write accurately on national team, and I would place Paul Howard at the top of that list.

Klein4, would you like a copy of the video of the Spain game from 2002? I think you must have drank too much cider that day, or else I saw a different match. We were the better team. If their goals were disallowed, they were disallowed for a reason. Also, we got penalties that we were entitled to. That's all part of the game. We've often had important penalties given against us (Turkey and Israel being examples). Spain were the better team in the first half. Ireland tended to start all the matches nervously and improve as the match went on. After the game, RTE news interviewed a number of Spanish fans who were delighted with the result. However, the general consensus was that they thought Ireland were the better team. Even after the game, people were saying that this young Irish team could go on and make a big impact at Euro 2004. That game against Spain actually left somewhat of a feel-good factor about what the team had achieved. Those who say that we didn't play well in that game either don't remember it or are McCarthy-bashing.

I'm not saying that the McCarthy era was perfect. The man made a number of mistakes, such as Keane in defence and 3 at the back. However, McCarthy always accepted when he was wrong. Kerr has proved to be too arrogant to do that. At least the team progressed during the McCarthy era. I've only been alive to witness the managerial tenures of the last 3 managers, but I definitely enjoyed Mick's style of football the most. Remember how we had 60% possession against the Germans in 2002 as we took the game to them. There was something very honest about Mick and his team, a level of decency that wasn't present with Brian Kerr. Mick made sure his team played with commitment and passion. We might have seen some crap performances against the likes of Iceland and Macedonia, but the team certainly didn't put in gutless performances like we saw against Switzerland and Cyprus.

I don't know how eirebhoy can tell me that the home game to France was perfect apart from the goal we conceded. We barely created a chance in the game. Considering we were at home, we were very negative. It was a cautious approach from a manager who simply wanted a draw. We might have been lucky against Holland four years earlier but at least we created plenty of chances to score a goal. Against France, we played for a draw when it was inevitable that a team with players like Henry would create a chance out of nothing.

Kerr is placing blame on everyone but himself. I don't want to hear his hard-luck stories. Sometimes Irish fans find it easier to place the blame on the FAI. I think that's the typical approach of an English club fan (i.e. "sack the board"). I can't see how the FAI cost us qualification. They're an easy target sometimes. The buck stops with Kerr. He was the one who chose to replace Robbie Keane with Graham Kavahangh, he was the one who played John O'Shea in central-midfield for the biggest game of his career, and it was Kerr who finished the must-win game against Switzerland with six defenders on the pitch. Kerr blew it and was rightly disposed of. Shame on RTE for even giving him a platform to talk nonsense. Does he think the Irish fans are stupid?

Kerr is a good manager at Eircom League level, he is an excellent underage coach, and would be a good person to run a national underage academy. However, at senior international level he was chancing his arm. The highlights of his tenure were the away games to Holland and France, as well as all those wonderful 1-0 victories in the friendlies. Lets close the chapter on a disappointing period for Irish football.

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Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.

Pineapple stu is spot on with everything he says. Klein4 is talking his usual nonsense, while eirebhoy (who in fairness is the most educated Ireland fan on this forum) is making all types of excuses for Kerr.

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Nice to know I'm not going mad anyway!:p Though I must disagree with you on your "shame on RTÉ" bit. I thought the show was actually very balanced with plenty of negative comments from commentators, journalists and panellists to balance Kerr's arguments.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

About Delaney and the media. I went up the Montclare hotel and read every word of the Sport section of the Irish Time before the Cyprus away match. The likes of Humphreys confirmed 3 or 4 times in that one newspaper that it was the FAI behind a lot of the media slating of Kerr.

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There is nothing remotely written in those articles which add substance to the conspiracy theory that it was the FAI behind the media attacks. They stood idly by. In fact Humphreys explains that Kerr could have easily have cooperated with the media and affected the slant. Kerr implied that there was a conspiracy from within the FAI in the documentary. Kerr should have had his eyes focussed on the Swiss and Cyprus conspiracy to beat us on the pitch.
Kerr could have accepted the situation that it was 2 wins or the chop. Why did he start moaning about the FAI and contract issue on the eve of our 2 most important games? 2 victories and his new contract was in the bag, did he not have the belief that we would win?
He was very very lucky that his managerial stint did not end there and then in Cyprus.
I think Eirebhoy is doing a much better job than Kerr did to defend his own record.

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Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.

Remember how we had 60% possession against the Germans in 2002 as we took the game to them.

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This is a point I made earlier. If Kerr was in charge in that match we would have taken them game to Germany too. Pyschologically, there's nothing left to lose when you're losing so you go at them. At the same time, the Germans had to protect their lead and had everything to lose. I'm probably making excuses but I do believe all the excuses I'm making are true.

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Originally Posted by geysir

There is nothing remotely written in those articles which add substance to the conspiracy theory that it was the FAI behind the media attacks.

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At the time I did have a few drinks but it was one of the articles not written by Humphries that had the main point. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm not lying though. I know plenty of people here are registered with Ireland.com. I seen Neil had posted the articles. I opened the reply box in a new tab and pasted one piece. I then moved down the article and realised I was wrong and hoped nobody would notice. :) I said "the likes" of Humphries. He wasn't the only one that wrote articles that day so I hope there's something else there. :)

One thing I'm not wrong on is that McCarthy was not much better than Kerr if he was at all in his first 2 campaigns. That's all I'm posting about. The OTT critisism he's getting. Would you believe I dread opening this thread? I was going to just ignore it this morning. :) Its only my opinion. Its a stubborn opinion to have but I don't feel I've been proved wrong yet. People may go on about his interviews but Mourinho talks some **** in his interviews, he's still a great manager. Point out all the things that was wrong with Kerr and you could make a similar point about McCarthy from his first 2 campaigns.

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Originally Posted by klein4

and Ireland were terrible against spain in the WC. anyone who remembers differently must have had the beer goggles on.

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Are you out of your ****ing mind? That was a good spanish side - who later against Korea got disgracefully robbed of a place in the semi finals - and they were hanging on for dear life at the end for penalties. If that had been a boxing match, ok we may have been behind on points at half time but it would never have lasted 120 minutes because we destroyed them for the rest of the game. I happened to have been at that game and was 100% sober and I dont know what you were watching. The most painful thing about that defeat was the knowledge that our performance was easily good enough for us to beat Korea (bribary of officials aside of course) and the Germans.

I am not even going to get into the whole Kerr/McCarthy/FAI debate right now, as I could end up writing all night, but I could not let you get away with a ridiculous comment like that.

After that game, I believe the feelings of the whole Spanish nation were that we totally outplayed them and deserved to win. Duffs performance in that game was described by FIFA.COM as one, the likes of which had been rarely seen before at a world cup.

The following article from the FIFA archive might remind you of what actually happened that night, just make sure you take the beer goggles off before reading it though:

http://2002.fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/0...16/2/13iy.html

No I remember the match well and remember at no stage during the first 90 minutes did I think ireland were doing anything other than the usual huffing and puffing to no avail. the usual moral victory.thats not macarthy bashing.and I deffo wasnt drunk watching it. I try and avoid the pub for matches so I dont have to listen to much the same ****e that passes for informed comment round here. I'd have no problem with any criticism of Kerrs time in charge if it wasnt backed up by comparing him to a crap manger with one of the worst records in football league history if I am not mistaken...People are being very selective in their use of facts and statistics.
"Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.
Remember how we had 60% possession against the Germans in 2002 as we took the game to them." this is one of the funniest things I have ever read. try watching the games instead of the stats...ah I remember it like it was yesterday son..

"the following article from the FIFA archive might remind you of what actually happened that night, just make sure you take the beer goggles off before reading it though:
http://2002.fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/0...16/2/13iy.html" FIFA website?????? well you are going to get a totally balanced view there!!!!! which PR company wote that for them?? I dont have to google something I saw with my own eyes.

"I didn't even read Tom Humphreys' ****. I think he's just a fat man who was never good enough to play sport and certainly can't write about it."

the irony of you criticising a quality journalist then going on to give the most airy fairy twaddle of an analysis of macarthys reign is just too perfect for words.

"Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.
Pineapple stu is spot on with everything he says. Klein4 is talking his usual nonsense, while eirebhoy (who in fairness is the most educated Ireland fan on this forum) is making all types of excuses for Kerr"
Its not nonsense to ask anyone coming on here to slate brian kerr to apply the same rigid criticisms of the previous manager. there are other points of view out there other than the british tabloid inspired ****e you and your ilk peddle as fact.


:)

Klein4, you're entitled to your opinion but we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I think we actually played well against Spain and the fact that we had 60% possession against the Germans indicates how we took the game to them. You might accuse some of us of being selective of our facts, but I think you're certainly being selective in your argument. It would appear that anything which McCarthy achieved is being attributed to "luck".
As for Tom Humphreys, I'll stand by what I said. His knowledge of the game is relatively poor and his hunger for publicity makes him only marginally better than thugs like Roy Curtis and Paul Hyland.

"thugs like Roy Curtis and Paul Hyland."
well at least there is something we agree on.....

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

OTT critisism he's getting. Would you believe I dread opening this thread? I was going to just ignore it this morning. :) Its only my opinion. Its a stubborn opinion to have but I don't feel I've been proved wrong yet.

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You have argued the case for Kerr very well and given us much for thought even for those like me who are 100% convinced. Its only opinions. It's a hard case to prove because Kerr did not get his chance for a third campaign. Time will tell us something when we get a new manager and we see how far he gets.

[QUOTE=eirebhoy]This is a point I made earlier. If Kerr was in charge in that match we would have taken them game to Germany too. Pyschologically, there's nothing left to lose when you're losing so you go at them.

Good point but cannot agree with this. Kerr's Ireland were trailing 1-0 to France and drawing 0-0 with the Swiss in a must win game and at no stage as the game wore on did we take the game to him. There was nothng to lose but still no reaction.

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Originally Posted by Donegalcelt

Good point but cannot agree with this. Kerr's Ireland were trailing 1-0 to France and drawing 0-0 with the Swiss in a must win game and at no stage as the game wore on did we take the game to him. There was nothng to lose but still no reaction.

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Aye I suppose.

It was all so bloody predictable. The French boss said before the September game that he knew what expect from us and he was right. Throw on Doherty and hoof it at him in the closing minutes. I'm not glorifying McCarthy by any matter of means on his switches (Connolly v Spain and Babb in Moscow to name but two laterally :confused: ) But in fairness to Mick, he was ever afraid to change the shape by for example, taking on Quinn for a fullback like Harte. Aside that the team still mixed things by playing penetrative possession football on the ground and used Quinn (obviously a much superior header of the ball than Doherty) sparingly and thus making us difficult to defend against. Kerr was too chicken to even make a slight alteration against the Swiss. The away fans were laughing into their cow bells when an ireland team already minus roy keane and duff took off robbie keane and morrisson. We even joked in a sadish manner late in that game that Kerr may as well have taken Paddy Kenny on for Given in unison with his own attacking ambitions