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I'm not disputing that he did well with Longford but he didn't really have anything to bottle then - see my definition above. Fenlon is a better manager than Kenny - end of. His record speaks for itself. I like Kenny, I can't stand Fenlon, so thats not a biased opinion.
It agree. Time has not been favourable to Bohs sacking Kenny but they were correct at the time. Shocking european result & crap start to season with team that could not defend a lead. Bohs made some other terible decisions with managers but Kenny was not one.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Fenlon is the best manager in the league, he is on the brink of 3 leagues in 4 seasons which is best record in 20 years. Best managers usually get the best teams just like any other sport. He has had some dodgy results in europe but learnt fronm them & CL 3rd round not been bettered. (I did to cleanse myself now after praise him like that)
That's a rubbish analogy.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
SK hasn't fallen at any final hurdle - he's just completed the race in second. As stated previously only one horse can win the race. That doesn't make every other horse bottlers or abject failures - particularly when SK's horse wasn't leading the pack at any point during the race.
If City had been top of the league for any significant period of time, and then we blew it towards the end of the season - just like Kevin Keegan did with Newcastle - then your bottling theory might start to have some mileage. But the fact is that we weren't - hence your view is a nonsense.
"voila" perhaps?Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofstan
Mersea bowkooQuote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Thats your opinion I have mine. I doubt we will agree so continuing to argue the toss with you is pointless.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Bottling it is harsh, but i definately think Derry missed out the week they
won the league cup. Kenny totally lost the run of himself that week and the
legaue game in Tolka the 2-2 is where it was lost imo.
Derry's surrender of the 2 goal lead gave the advantage to Shels
If Kenny had controlled the players discipline better after the 2 sendings
off instead of its all the refs fault the 3rd might not have happened
Derry would have won the match and probably the title
What screwed us in that game was not having a sub-keeper on the bench. That is the only decision SK has made in his 2 years at Derry that I personally would criticise him for.Quote:
Originally Posted by hoops1
A proper keeper would've saved at least one, if not both, of Shels' goals in that match.
This whole shebang about Fenlon being a better manager is based on winning trophies of course. Yes but as far as being a better tactical manager i would say Stephen Kenny is better. Thats not biased because its like sayin Felix Healy is a better manager than Kenny because he won more trophies at us but my definition of a good manager is based on how a team plays and how far they have come since the previous manager. Yes managers are judged on success and rightly so but like Dunfermline are doing, they look at the style of football and organisation of a team and how they play rather than just how many trophies the person has won
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Originally Posted by City till I Die
In the 3 league games between Derry and Shels this season both clubs have 4 points yet Derry are 3/6 points behind Shels. That indicates that Fenlon's team are more consitant over the league season to pick up more points fromthe other teams in the league.
In 2003 and 2004 Bohs took more points from our games with Shels yet finished 5 and 8 points respectively behind Shels over the course of the season. I know Kenny wasnt around for half of 2004 but the main pioint stands.
Fenlon has 2 [probably 3] titles in 5 seasons. He musnt be too bad at the oul tactics and motivation when you consider he has kept Shels at the top despite two winding up orders, players strikes and 4/5 weeks of non payment of wages.
A manager's tactics and how he gets them across to his playersis a huge part of football. If Fenlon makes it 3 from 5 then surely you cannot deny he is the best manager currently employed in the eircom league?
It's funny how Derry fans are changing their ambitions around now that they can't realistically win the league.
They were going for the title a few weeks ago, now it's second place they're aimed for.
obviously??? :confused:
What's so funny about that ?? :confused: The table doesn't lie - you have to accept what it says.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsFans
Mathematically we can still win the league, but are unlikely to do so. We therefore now have to worry about whether Cork or Drogs can pip us to 2nd place. That's the reality of the situation. Would you rather fans ignore the reality their teams face....?
There is still an outside chance we can win the league but we will all know a lot more this time tomorrow. If Shels lose to Cork and Derry beat St Pats and arbitration announces the original decision to deduct Bohs 3 points and no replay it leaves Derry 3 points behind with a game in hand. Beat Waterford on Monday night and it is level on points going into the last game of the season. Yes, we would have to rely on a Bohs team that has done nothing lately except draw with us and screw our title challenge so we would have to hope that the desire to screw Shels will motivate them like nothing else could and they beat Shels and we beat Cork and we win the lague.
Its a lot to ask for and we haven't done ourselves any favours by drawing with Bray and losing to Drogheda but it aint over yet.
We dont think Kenny is the best because of what he has won its the vast improvement he has made.
Fenlon has done a great job winning the legaue with shels, but they were good when he took over and he had money to spend.
When Kenny took over us we were relegation candiadates, to go from that to (probably) 2 second places, 2 league cups, a possible fai cup, a good european run, while having very little money to spend is remarkable.
:rolleyes: read it.Quote:
Originally Posted by nzamcdza
I don't see anyone saying 2nd isn't good enough, especially when you were in a better position (not physically speaking) to win the league then Shels. Your all saying lets go for 2nd.
When were we in a better position to win the league than Shels ??? :confused: As we've seen, games in-hand don't count for nought.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsFans
Waterford could have 20 games in-hand, but I still doubt that would put them in a better position to win the league than Shels....
Were you not level on points with games in hand at one stage? I was sure you were but I could be wrong.
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Originally Posted by nzamcdza
Eh Derry have signed a lot of players in the past 18 months. Holmes, McCourt, Kelly, Oman, O'Flynn, McCafferty, Brennan, McHugh, Molloy - Thats just under half your squad
Fenlon took over an ageing Shels team in 2002 and has made some necessary changes and won titles.
Kenny has had two full seasons at Derry now.
According to today's Derry Journal he was offered a package to stay that beat Dunfermilines salary. Business men in the city put together finances to persuade him to stay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverstillidie
Newstalk this morning said Kenny had signed 2 year contract with Duns to commence within the next ten days.
Heard on the radio last night that he was definitely staying until after the cup final. Would be poor form if he left before hand.
No. We've always been chasing, both in terms of points and games in-hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Which blows your ill-informed little theory re 'falling at the last hurdle' entirely out of the water..
7 points behind with 3 games in hand plus a home tie against Shels [which you won]Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Maybe you should have tried to play Droghedawhen you were scheduled to.
Its a pity he won't be in charge tomorrow, easy first game away to Rangers!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...ic/6133944.stm
Listen Mr Self-Righteous. Apologies for giving an opinion that you don't agree with. Belittle me all you want like you try to do with everyone else on here that says something you don't like but don't make snide comments about drug abuse when you don't know the first thing about me.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Inaccuracy with the league cup ok. Fair play. But the dogs on the street know that McHugh's job won't let him fulfil full-time football. Maybe he will get something sorted with Derry, maybe not but he isn't getting it easy at the minute with a demanding job and an intense training schedule. His Missus gave birth to their first child a few months ago and they're building a new house and he hardly sees them.
Secondly, both Pizza and Higgsy were candidates for the Harps job last time out and Gorman is under huge pressure as he has failed to deliver this season with a large budget. Where is the inaccuracies there?
If a new manager comes to the Brandywell, chances are he will bring his own assistant. Most do. If Higgsy is left out in the cold do you think he would turn down the Harps job? He has applied for it twice in the past.
Thirdly, I didn't mention a clear out but it is common knowledge that Derry will be releasing 'fringe' players at the end of the season to relieve quite a big wage bill. Ask someone in the know at Derry and don't take my word for it but this was going to happen regardless if Kenny was manager or not.
Kenny leaving Derry will have a direct impact on Finn Harps. That was the jist of my post yet you chose to discect it and point out a mistake I made regarding your league cup wins.
If you can't accept that then don't bother replying with your usual smug, long-winded, self indulgent know-it-all crap.
It's well seen that you're not based in the North West when you can just rubbish that claim - just don't be surprised if it happens Steve!:ball:Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Watch Harpskid. Don't argue anymore with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by harpskid
We'll be here until next week reading his replies.
In otherwords - no, we were never on level points with a game in-hand.... :rolleyes: Games in-hand mean nothing until they're converted into points.Quote:
Originally Posted by bohs til i die
We wanted to play at least one of the Drogs games earlier, but weren't allowed to. As for the other 2 games, I'm afraid Drogs and ourselves were too busy putting the EL on the map in Europe, erasing memories of poor defeats to Estonian and Moldovan minnows on the way, to be able to play those games. When you buy yourselves back into European contention, then you'll understand...Quote:
Originally Posted by bohs til i die
When you're finished ranting....Quote:
Originally Posted by cheech
Where did I say anything about Pizza not going to manage Harps etc ? The one thing I was questioning was a McHugh transfer, as my understanding/information (yes, from the North-West...) is that that is extremley unlikely. I could well be proven wrong - but only time will tell.
As for the idea of SK's move having an impact upon Harps, it may well do so in terms of fringe players. And it may well not. But where did I say what impact it would have upon Harps ? If you'd paused mid-rant you might have read again what I'd said and realised this.
Getting rid of fringe players like Delaney is far form beign a "clear out". You were implying that Kenny leaving would cause a lot of changes in playing personnel, which we simply can't afford to do. Some will leave, who probably would have left anyway, but any notion of a "clear out" is likely to be far from the truth.
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No. We've always been chasing, both in terms of points and games in-hand.
The inclusive use of the word both, means they are not mutually exclusive of each-other and are therefore indepenent of one another with either possible outcome or both.....therefore bohs well said you are correct. its all in the wording steve, you should know that ;)Quote:
In otherwords - no, we were never on level points with a game in-hand....
Surely he could have done more with derry than he will be able with dunfermline, obviouslly he is seeing it as a stepping stone, but surely he would be more recognised across the water if he were to bring derry into the group stages of the uefa cup, especially given the fact they could well draw an english team in teh group stages if they did qualify.....I hope for derrys sake he doesnt start shipping over some of their players over the next few months...
But never the less it was there for the taking. It was in your hands to win or lose the league and you blew it.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
You said "Two actually (league cups). About as accurate as the rest of your post." Does this not imply that what I had said in my entire post wasn't true and not just the sentence regarding Kevin McHugh?Quote:
When you're finished ranting....
Where did I say anything about Pizza not going to manage Harps etc ? The one thing I was questioning was a McHugh transfer, as my understanding/information (yes, from the North-West...) is that that is extremley unlikely. I could well be proven wrong - but only time will tell.
Kenny's move will have an impact on Harps. That was the point of my OP, that you discected and rubbished as inaccurate. Can I not therefore assume you think any move won't? Is this not one of your 'points' regarding my post being inaccurate or what exactly are you arguing about?Quote:
As for the idea of SK's move having an impact upon Harps, it may well do so in terms of fringe players. And it may well not. But where did I say what impact it would have upon Harps ? If you'd paused mid-rant you might have read again what I'd said and realised this.
Again, where did I mention that there would be a clear out? If you'd paused mid-rant you might have read again what I'd said and realised this :rolleyes:Quote:
Getting rid of fringe players like Delaney is far form beign a "clear out". You were implying that Kenny leaving would cause a lot of changes in playing personnel, which we simply can't afford to do. Some will leave, who probably would have left anyway, but any notion of a "clear out" is likely to be far from the truth.
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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
And just remember who our manager was when we lost to those Estonian Minnows.
The same person who was manager of Derry when they beat Gotenburg twice, hammered Gretna and drew with PSG.Quote:
Originally Posted by bohs til i die
And thank God he lost too...... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by bohs til i die
Well spotted POS. :o Bloody consultants...... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Steve, give it up. You are in the vast minority sticking up for SK at this stage. He has lost his fan base in Derry and his teary eyed drivel on RTÉ was wasted on but the most emotionally crippled Derry fan. Why worry about the Dunferline manager anyway? :rolleyes:
Well I myself think he is a good manager. Vast minoerity or not we are right.Quote:
Originally Posted by EireBadBoy
I'm disappointed in his choice of club, and have said that all along, so I'm hardly sticking-up for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by EireBadBoy
I am, however, sticking up for his record and abilities, which are in no way changed by his move to Dunfermline. He has still been, and is, a good manager, and it's just sour grapes to rave about his abilities one minute and then denounce them the next. His ability and history remains unchanged by his latest move - as much as IO'm disappointed in him for making that move.