Trap Out and/or Delaney Out

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

Right who is still in the Trap camp? Don't be shy.....

---

I've about half a toe left in the Trap camp and the rest of me is in the get rid camp. In an ideal world he would go, but it would be a big financial hit, it seems he is not going to resign without payment. Aside from the cost of getting rid of him, paying out not only his contract but also the contract of all his support team (e.g. Tardelli as I dont think his sucessor would want to work with him, and the translator as there is no need for her) would be expensive and there would be the cost of the new manager (and his support team) over the rest of the qualification campaign. Put it this way if we did get rid of Trap and say got in Sean O'Driscoll, from now until 2014 we would be paying the wages of both Trap and O'Driscoll. If there was a standout candidate it might be justifiable but I cant see one. The football is fairly horrendous to watch, but on paper if we beat the Faeroes then 6 points from the three games would be on par with most peoples expectations and given the cost of termination I would probably give him a stay of execution so to speak. I always thought his position in this qualification campaign was akin to knockout football, so long as the results were on par we sould keep him but as soon as we dropped points against a lesser team we should consider getting rid of him. If we dont win against the Faeroese then I would get rid of him on the basis the results are impacting on future seedings. If we have another insipid performance and are drubbed in Stockholm I would probably get shot of him that night.

Paddy Power suspend betting on him being sacked by the year end.

Though God knows bookies have suspended enough of betting for little or no reason down the years.

There's an old saying "Be careful what you wish for"
A very sad day if Trap is forced to leave.
Who will come in?

Harry Rednapp? He'd call up half the West Ham team plus his old players such as Anton Ferdinand! Shudder at the thought!

Mad Mick? Never go back? Nice bloke but he's had his time

Brian Kerr? Talks a good game still living off the back of the youth side success way back.

Brian Mc D from Reading, nice guy, gets the best out of his players but too soon for him right now.

Roy Keane???? Don't even go there!

What's the betting we end up with Sven?

Not looking too good is it?

In Trap I trust!

I would be very surprised if Harry called up Rio Ferdinand, Sean.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by A face

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.n...72597127_n.jpg

---

Almost right but I'd stick Staunton's head on an amoeba as even though it might ruin the sequence it would be more accurate in an evolutionary sense.

Why? We played more positive football under Staunton than any of those managers bar McCarthy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Why? We played more positive football under Staunton than any of those managers bar McCarthy.

---

Staunton had us playing the most tactically inept brand of football you're ever likely to see outside a playground.

And yet the players passed the ball short distances.

I agree with other posters concerns about who we would and could get in. The main questions asked by any decent manager would be along the lines of
(1) How good are the team now?
(2) How good can they be in the future? (by this I would say 2-4 years)


(1) Right now, I would say that we are a team that looks in transition. We have lost Given and Duff (two world class players in their day and in Duff's case still a very good player). We have a very good forward like Robbie Keane who is in the twilight of his career and a very good defender and leader of men like Richard Dunne who is not likely to make the campaign for Euro 2016. These were four massive players for us, not just in terms of playing ability, but in terms of their experience and leadership. All four loved and love playing for Ireland and set an example for the younger players in particular. The next batch of experienced players like O'Shea and McGeady are not leaders of men. This would be a concern for any would be manager.

All is not totally unattractive. In Coleman, Clarke, Wilson, McClean and McCarthy we have five very good young players that would be attractive for any manager to work with. In goal, we have Westwood, who I believe will become a decent premiership goalie over time. In Long, we have a very very good player. Walters is a decent striker. O'Shea and McGeady have earned their reputations, but neither have ever really looked like international players on a consistent basis. However, they have both shown that they can play at a high level and it would be the challenge of any would be manager to get them back playing at this level for Ireland. Gibson was in great form for Everton prior to his injury and he could form a very good partnership with McCarthy.

Players like St Ledger will also be important and his experience over the last number of years could be crucial, especially with the more senior players retiring. The likes of Hoolahan could be massive players for us with a new regime and any football man that has watched the premiership can't but be impressed with his ability with the ball and his ability to keep possession, two qualities badly lacking in our current team. Andy Reid and Stephen Ireland are two players that could come into consideration with any new manager. In Ireland's case, there would be major question marks over whether he would ever want to play for Ireland again and whether despite his brilliant talent, he would be more trouble than he is worth, especially in a team that is likely to be in transition.

All in all, I would say we look like a reasonably decent team on paper, but a team that is lacking a "top player". We are a team of primarily premiership journeymen. Comparisons could be made with a team like Sweden, who bar Ibrahimavic, are a fairly ordinary batch of players. We don't have a Belgian golden generation, but we look like a team that should be challenging for a play off.

(2) Mick McCarty's tenure became successful not just because he had players like Irwin and Keane at his disposal, but also because he had a brilliant batch of young players coming through. In the current team, there is no guys coming through that stand out as having the brilliant talent of a Keane, Duff or Given. Only Brady looks to be anywhere near that level. He looks like he has the making of a good international player and a guy who could have a good career in the game but he has done nothing thus far to make us believe that he could be the world class player that we haven't produced in more than a decade (at times Ireland looked world class at Man City). Duffy and Cunningham seem to be doing well and have alot of talent, but neither stand out as really special. Clifford appears to be going nowhere and at one point he appeared to be one of the best underage players in the British game. To put it in perspective, I would have felt 2 years ago that barring injury, Clifford would be a starter for us by now.

Anybody who watches our underage teams will know that there are some brilliant young talents bubbling under. Guys like Conor Henderson, Graham Burke, Jeff Hendrick and Sean Murray all offer great hope. However, in the global context of what constitutes a world class u21 player, none of these have had any real success of note (Suso and Sterling for example would be in the category of world class u21 players imo). However, it must be taken into account that this does not mean that they cannot get to this level over time.

I would say that we have a healthy number of young players that look like they could have a very good future in the game. If I was a manager thinking at applying for the Ireland job, I would be on the whole impressed with the possibilities for the next few years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

And yet the players passed the ball short distances.

---

To the opposition.

haven't read through all the thread, so this may have been already discussed. If there is a positive reaction in the performance tomorrow, is it down to the manager or the players themselves?

My18 month old can do that. Still doesn't mean I'd line him up against Cyprus.

I wouldn't pick him either to be fair. Not enough experience at this level.

The Indo has become a lot more assertive in its belief that Trap is gone unless we win by 10 tomorrow! He's gone therefore.

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...b-3259683.html

All you need to know about the Indo and INM - Eoghan Harris and Ruth Dudley Edwards. The paper has the morals of the English Sun and cane be summe dup in one of it's most recent "exposes". The traveler family who Phil Hogan was contacted about were supposedly "dignified" in their responses to the Minister's reaction. INM beat the head off Hogan and lined up all the usual talking heads to slam him (Pavee Point etc), they did their business then once it died down went after the father of the traveler family and exposed him as a serial offender with a track record of brutality to animals and drink driving, as well as public order offences. Of course the latter story appeared as a small article so they could claim unbiased reporting. They're lining up the next sacrificial lamb and won't stop until Trap is gone and Denis O'Brien humiliated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spudulika

All you need to know about the Indo and INM - Eoghan Harris and Ruth Dudley Edwards. The paper has the morals of the English Sun and cane be summe dup in one of it's most recent "exposes". The traveler family who Phil Hogan was contacted about were supposedly "dignified" in their responses to the Minister's reaction. INM beat the head off Hogan and lined up all the usual talking heads to slam him (Pavee Point etc), they did their business then once it died down went after the father of the traveler family and exposed him as a serial offender with a track record of brutality to animals and drink driving, as well as public order offences. Of course the latter story appeared as a small article so they could claim unbiased reporting. They're lining up the next sacrificial lamb and won't stop until Trap is gone and Denis O'Brien humiliated.

---

And how does this relate to Trap!:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

haven't read through all the thread, so this may have been already discussed. If there is a positive reaction in the performance tomorrow, is it down to the manager or the players themselves?

---

I think its a bit of both to be honest.

Its strange when he finally starts deciding to make the changes everyone wants, now everyone wants him out....

That's the sad thing, if Trap had sorted all these little issue, that were pointed out over a year or so ago - as he so often referred to leetle details in the past - then we wouldn't be, or he wouldn't be in the position he is now.

All that's needed to win against the Faroes is possession, movement and speed. Everything that is lacking under Trapattoni's reign. :smile:

We just need personality to beat the Faroes tonight.

The FAI have one card to play against Trap. They can say they will relieve Trap from his duties, but if he wants the full payoff, he must adhere to his contract and receive his salary until his contract ends in 2014.

This, of course, means that Trap could not work for anybody else for two years. And considering his age, he's probably not going to want that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brine3

The FAI have one card to play against Trap. They can say they will relieve Trap from his duties, but if he wants the full payoff, he must adhere to his contract and receive his salary until his contract ends in 2014.

This, of course, means that Trap could not work for anybody else for two years. And considering his age, he's probably not going to want that.

---

That would be a good deal for Trap, he would get all the money without having to live in Ireland or watch any Irish players play matches for their clubs. Oh wait.........

I think I'm more on Trap's side than ever now. The media pressure is barbaric, pure Brit-influenced c rap from watching Sky Sports for too long. The man's done well, I don't agree with some of the tactics and some of the team selections but he got us to a major tournament and within an inch of another from a very low starting point. A win tonight and we're pretty much where we expected to be after three games. Get the Dunney Monster back for Stockholm in March and grab a 1-1 and off we go! To challenge Sweden for second would be an achievement in itself this time round I feel. I know there is much more detailed analysis of his performance being ignored here, and I know the counter arguments to what I have said, but I don't care...overall he's done a good job and that cartoon thing a few pages back is idiotic. It might only be a little joke but it's not funny as it has no substance whatsoever.

I like the team for tonight too, well under the circumstances. Brady and Wilson for Cox and Ward makes plenty of sense. If only we could strengthen the centre a bit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeLorean

I think I'm more on Trap's side than ever now. The media pressure is barbaric, pure Brit-influenced c rap from watching Sky Sports for too long. The man's done well, I don't agree with some of the tactics and some of the team selections but he got us to a major tournament and within an inch of another from a very low starting point. A win tonight and we're pretty much where we expected to be after three games. Get the Dunney Monster back for Stockholm in March and grab a 1-1 and off we go! To challenge Sweden for second would be an achievement in itself this time round I feel. I know there is much more detailed analysis of his performance being ignored here, and I know the counter arguments to what I have said, but I don't care...overall he's done a good job and that cartoon thing a few pages back is idiotic. It might only be a little joke but it's not funny as it has no substance whatsoever.

I like the team for tonight too, well under the circumstances. Brady and Wilson for Cox and Ward makes plenty of sense. If only we could strengthen the centre a bit.

---

Never convinced by Trap and still believe we should have got rid of him after Euro debacle. But, having kept him on we must stick with him for this campaign (until we are definately out). Win tonight and we are still in contention for 2nd plae so why the hell sack him (even if FAI could afford it ?). we were always playing for 2nd - God Almighty could not get those players to finish ahead of Germany - and nothing much has changed.

Group will be decided on our games with Sweden and Austria and then we can judge Trap.

Cathal Dervan (I know, I know) talking on Radio Ulster, says Trap will almost certainly be gone by the end of the week. Said the wheels have been set in motion to replace him, and all that's left to discuss is the money.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Its strange when he finally starts deciding to make the changes everyone wants, now everyone wants him out....

That's the sad thing, if Trap had sorted all these little issue, that were pointed out over a year or so ago - as he so often referred to leetle details in the past - then we wouldn't be, or he wouldn't be in the position he is now.

---

you would wonder why anyone pays a manager really when its the fans / media / internet forums that are really the ones with all the correct solutions

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by marinobohs

Win tonight and we are still in contention for 2nd plae

---

Beating the Faroes will not suddenly mean we're in contention for second place given the last two performances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeLorean

The media pressure is barbaric, pure Brit-influenced c rap from watching Sky Sports for too long. The man's done well, I don't agree with some of the tactics and some of the team selections but he got us to a major tournament and within an inch of another from a very low starting point. A win tonight and we're pretty much where we expected to be after three games. Get the Dunney Monster back for Stockholm in March and grab a 1-1 and off we go! To challenge Sweden for second would be an achievement in itself this time round I feel. I know there is much more detailed analysis of his performance being ignored here, and I know the counter arguments to what I have said, but I don't care...overall he's done a good job and that cartoon thing a few pages back is idiotic. It might only be a little joke but it's not funny as it has no substance whatsoever.

I like the team for tonight too, well under the circumstances. Brady and Wilson for Cox and Ward makes plenty of sense. If only we could strengthen the centre a bit.

---

I agree with most of what you say. The media have been pure ignorant for the last few days.
Trap done what was asked of him and in very difficult circumstances after Stan's chaos. He should be applauded for that, I don't think there is many other managers out there that would have been able to get so close to a WC and then qualify for the Euros.

I think he's time is up though, it's just a shame it's happening this way.

22 qualifying matches with 2 defeats
Qualified for playoffs twice
Qualified for our first major tournament in 10 years and our first Euros in 24 years
Overshot our seeding in both qualifying campaigns
Increased our FIFA ranking through his tenure significantly
All while operating with the weakest Irish squad in about 20 years.


I'll just say that if we sack this man we'll be the laughing stock of the world. The animosity against him in the current position is exactly why we have the worst fanbase out there, simply disgraceful. I'm embarrassed by some of the gutter tabloid nonsense said around here.
While I can respect somebody saying that trap's tenure was successful but it's run its course and time to move on, there are literally people who believe Trap's tenure was poor and that his appointment was a mistake. We have an admin on this board today proclaiming that the selection team who got him should be hung for their transgressions, it'd be comedy gold if this wasn't my country.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

We just need personality to beat the Faroes tonight.

---

Our mentalitee is strong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Murfinator

22 qualifying matches with 2 defeats
Qualified for playoffs twice
Qualified for our first major tournament in 10 years and our first Euros in 24 years
Overshot our seeding in both qualifying campaigns
Increased our FIFA ranking through his tenure significantly
All while operating with the weakest Irish squad in about 20 years.


I'll just say that if we sack this man we'll be the laughing stock of the world. The animosity against him in the current position is exactly why we have the worst fanbase out there, simply disgraceful. I'm embarrassed by some of the gutter tabloid nonsense said around here.
While I can respect somebody saying that trap's tenure was successful but it's run its course and time to move on, there are literally people who believe Trap's tenure was poor and that his appointment was a mistake. We have an admin on this board today proclaiming that the selection team who got him should be hung for their transgressions, it'd be comedy gold if this wasn't my country.

---

I could hardly be described as a member of the Trap Out Brigade but even I've lost faith in him. His record in terms of results is very good, or at least was until the Euros, but it's clear at this stage that this is a side on a very steep decline unless there are big changes.

What is most disgusting in all of this is how the meeja are hunting like a pack, there is no independent thinker - though I will give an exception to Vincent Hogan who, I believe, wrote a balanced and decent article today. If you say something often enough it then becomes true. INM are behaving like scum in this respect and I hate to say that I've actually started to "take" the Times, or actually not read Irish newspapers online at all. It is all backslapping, drinking buddies and no end of agenda from each one involved. This was set in motion a long, long time ago and these people who largely ignore domestic football, are pushing the lie that removing the manager and his crew will mean something good for football in Ireland. Murfinator has it right, I had to listen today to a local clown sneer about how Ireland are just minnows now, that even our media say so. This is the same gobsheen who blew up (with the connivance of Irish journos at the Olympics) a non-existent row between Katie Taylor and her Russian opponent. The Irish meeja lapped it up, regardless of the extra pressure it put on our own fighter, and it was all a lie to begin with - but when did that ever get in the way of Fleet Street/Irish journos.

i cant look at a sunday world cause of 1 journalist...guess its not hard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Beating the Faroes will not suddenly mean we're in contention for second place given the last two performances.

---

The performances have been pretty woeful, but I still dont think we are that far off Sweden and second place, Sweden's performances have been as nearly as drab as ours especially when you consider their two games have been easier than ours. Put it this way if we beat the Faeroes (and if we dont this whole conversation is pointless and we can kiss goodbye to everything) and Sweden are beaten in Germany we will be level on points in 2nd position. We will then go away to Stockholm and if we can draw that (and I think looking at Sweden even our current team, in sloppy form, could get a draw) and a win will put us in a good position irrespective of how badly we have played. Sweden currently have a 7 goal difference better than us, but a 3-0 defeat for them and a 2 or 3-0 win for us (both of which are possible) would bring the goal differences more into line.

Reading what some people on here type about Sweden you would think they are the best team in Europe, they are far from that. While they are well organised and physical, they are very mundane, largely bereft of skill and pace. Hard to break down perhaps, but they will not run us ragged like the Germans and Croatians did, they dont have players with the energy to do this - our defenders will have more time on the ball and this will suit Traps defensive (and frankly rather horrific to watch) style of football.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Our mentalitee is strong.


I could hardly be described as a member of the Trap Out Brigade but even I've lost faith in him. His record in terms of results is very good, or at least was until the Euros, but it's clear at this stage that this is a side on a very steep decline unless there are big changes.

---

Theres such a thing as too much loyalty towards a manager aswell. It can be as damaging as constantly selecting underperforming players.

His entire reign needs to be analysed. Has he any interest in a long term strategy to blood players for the future? NO

World class people skills are needed for a manager in the modern game, does he possess this quality? Apparently not

Has he shown tactical intelligence and flexibility? NO

Does he show an enthusiasm to cast his net wide and really evaluate what options he has at his disposal as an international manager in terms of players? NO

Quite frankly, people set the bar extremely low. Whats to say we could not have won our qualification groups with a less pragmatic approach? And before anyone jumps down my neck, advocating a less pragmatic approach does not entails trying to be Spain. It involves being efficient defensively without compromising attacking as a unit aswell.

His inability to nip some of our problems in the bud is very worrying. Our midfield for instance. Not effective in possession but more worryingly for Trap not effective without it either.

His insistance on relying on some really Terrible players, making them key squad members. Darren O'Dea, Stephen Ward, Paul McShane, Andy Keogh, Glen Whelan, Paul Green, Stephen Hunt, and then having the gall to tell us that this is the hand he has been dealt rather than trying to blood players who may in fact prove to be better alternatives.

Personally, I always thought Trap was a spent force in terms of being a relevant football mind. He has really been insignificant since the turn of the century really. He has a name sure, but its the equivalent of being in a long term relationship with a supermodel from the 80's when you are an ugly f*cker. In your eyes your still going out with a model, but to everyone else looking on you seem happy with someone who as quite clearly seen better days.

I don't think standing behind your manager in a press conference the day before a must-win game is too much loyalty.

edit: woosh, from On the Ball on Facebook:

Quote:

---

Trapattoni will NOT hold a planned press conference in Dublin tomorrow and will instead fly home directly to Milan. Writing is on the wall. Join us tonight with Ken in Torshavn and Richard Sadlier, Kevin Kilbane and Stuart Byrne in Dublin.

---

Apparently there was a minor tremor felt in Thorshavn and in Dublin as simultaneous multiple orgasms erupted amongst the Irish meeja - their wettest dreams (thanks to a paper hack) could come true. Just ashamed to have such people call themselves Irish. Scum.

Just heard it on The Last Word . That is a whoosh.

George Hamiliton just commented on it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeLorean

I think I'm more on Trap's side than ever now. The media pressure is barbaric, pure Brit-influenced c rap from watching Sky Sports for too long.

---

The media pressure is manufactured, Trap is a boring stable manager in their eyes with predictable team selections, systems and the communication barrier in press conferences frustrates them no end. It's difficult to sell papers or get people to tune in to coverage under this era.
They want him out and the Irish public are apparently gullible enough to be manipulated to carry out their wishes.

2 competitive defeats in 3 campaigns, currently on a 19 game unbeaten run away from home, rose our fifa rankings, 2 playoffs, 1 major tournament. I hope he goes after tonight because honestly Irish supporters don't deserve him, lets go get Dalglish or Eamon Dunphy to manage the team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

The performances have been pretty woeful, but I still dont think we are that far off Sweden and second place, Sweden's performances have been as nearly as drab as ours especially when you consider their two games have been easier than ours. Put it this way if we beat the Faeroes (and if we dont this whole conversation is pointless and we can kiss goodbye to everything) and Sweden are beaten in Germany we will be level on points in 2nd position. We will then go away to Stockholm and if we can draw that (and I think looking at Sweden even our current team, in sloppy form, could get a draw) and a win will put us in a good position irrespective of how badly we have played. Sweden currently have a 7 goal difference better than us, but a 3-0 defeat for them and a 2 or 3-0 win for us (both of which are possible) would bring the goal differences more into line.

Reading what some people on here type about Sweden you would think they are the best team in Europe, they are far from that. While they are well organised and physical, they are very mundane, largely bereft of skill and pace. Hard to break down perhaps, but they will not run us ragged like the Germans and Croatians did, they dont have players with the energy to do this - our defenders will have more time on the ball and this will suit Traps defensive (and frankly rather horrific to watch) style of football.

---

So all of this happens and then what?? We either get embarrassed by someone in the play-off or we have another debacle like the Euros where we get our arses handed to us. Traps whole attitude of the irish aren't good enough, we have a weak team, we cannot beat the bigger teams is killing the spirit of this squad, the spirit that allowed us compete with the likes of Holland, Germany, England etc in our past. Much like someone who is bullied and constantly told they are worthless, after a while they start to believe this and its extremely hard to come back from.

I think we need an Irish manager who knows what the Irish spirit and fight is all about. I think with the players we have it is not impossible for us to qualify for tournaments and give a good account of us. We are better than this crap!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by weldoninhio

So all of this happens and then what?? We either get embarrassed by someone in the play-off or we have another debacle like the Euros where we get our arses handed to us. Traps whole attitude of the irish aren't good enough, we have a weak team, we cannot beat the bigger teams is killing the spirit of this squad, the spirit that allowed us compete with the likes of Holland, Germany, England etc in our past. Much like someone who is bullied and constantly told they are worthless, after a while they start to believe this and its extremely hard to come back from.

I think we need an Irish manager who knows what the Irish spirit and fight is all about. I think with the players we have it is not impossible for us to qualify for tournaments and give a good account of us. We are better than this crap!!!

---

Look what a mediocre Swedish team achieved tonight.