Staunton & FAI insult to eL players

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08/10/2006, 5:57 PM
BohDiddley

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Lord

What goes around, comes around. Tonight's result was the culmination of 30-odd years hoping that British clubs would provide us with internationals while Irish football just curled up and died.
Maybe someone, somewhere, with a brain and some imagination will realise that we need to develop the game at home to provide the national team with any hope of a sustainable future rather than hoping for a few decent players to grow from the weeds here at home and get plucked by British clubs.

Totally agree.
Tragically, you have to come on a message board to read what is blindingly obvious to anyone with a whit of common sense and knowledge of football.
The era of Ireland relying on British clubs to stock our national team is over. We are scraping the bottom of the barrel of English football, and we have no depth. Garry Doyle on RTE today was clear on this point, but no one yet has made the next logical step in their thinking. A properly established national league is the only answer in the long term.
I feel sorry (well, a little bit of me does) for Stan and (some) of the players. They are being put in the stocks for something that was inevitable, once English football went global.
08/10/2006, 6:05 PM
Poor Student

While the neglect and rot in our domestic game is upsetting and regrettable, there were players out there that were more than capable of beating Cyprus had they been organised in a proper manner. I don't think I could see the same thing happening other under managers with the exact same players. Staunton seems to have no clue tactically and is an utterly uninspiring personality. People point out eL players that could perform better than some of the players last night. How would those players settle in the eL? Any small country that draws all of their players from the domestic league tends to be poor. Is it not preferable that all of our starting IX play in the Premiership as opposed to the eL as it is an indicator of the strength of our playing pool?:confused: Lack of passion, organisation etc. falls with the team management, not the state of the domestic game.
08/10/2006, 6:33 PM
BohDiddley

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

s last night. How would those players settle in the eL? Any small country that draws all of their players from the domestic league tends to be poor. Is it not preferable that all of our starting IX play in the Premiership as opposed to the eL as it is an indicator of the strength of our playing pool?:confused: Lack of passion, organisation etc. falls with the team management, not the state of the domestic game.

Yes, but if we had a better national league, we would have better players at the top of the game. It might still be that none would play in that league, having been poached by bungiership, but we would have a greater overall standard and much more depth.
Lack of passion also has to do, I think, with the pampering of top players in England and the mercenary culture that has arisen there recently.
08/10/2006, 6:43 PM
BohDiddley

A league apart

Just found this on BFC site.
08/10/2006, 7:31 PM
Mr A

I can't believe that there's people who feel that the EL is better than the championship in England. It has one of the highest levels of support of any league in Europe, contains a large number of internationals and all the teams have large squad of professionals.

We have at most 5 full-time clubs, attendances are woeful and considering the wages on offer wouldn't a lot more players be moving to England if they were good enough?

Yes the league has made some progress, but some perspective must be kept as well.
08/10/2006, 7:37 PM
Aaron

Quote:

Just found this on BFC site.

I agree with most of it bar having Alan Moore in and no Kevin Deery. Great choice of manager eh!!
08/10/2006, 7:47 PM
hoopy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galway Harps

I can't believe that there's people who feel that the EL is better than the championship in England.

You may have a point but from an Irish perspective I've no doubt that the best X1 Irish players in the EL would beat the best X1 Irish players in the Championship
08/10/2006, 8:07 PM
MervilleUnited

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohDiddley

They are being put in the stocks for something that was inevitable, once English football went global.

Gentlemen (And Indeed ladies!) that sums up the issue!

1990: Over 100 kids went to england on contracts
2006: Less than 10

I am afraid that we are in for the long haul. Scotland have neen down the hole, and seem to have made a comeback. By massive investment by the Scottish Executive in facilities and coaching. A revitalised EL, properly funded, is must as an end product of proper coaching programme. Also, the era of the volunteer is dead. (Maybe for another thread- Tax relief for volunteer work with kids).

Throw in the fact that half our talent are playing (And indeed watching, to the detriment of the EL) Native Games. That percentage is not in Germany, Ceczh Republic, Slovakia, Cyprus et al.

Its back to Basics. That said, Lawrie Sanchez seems to be getting performances from journeymen. Are we back to the old era of eoin hand being a waterboy (And told that by the players) instead of a manager?

By the way, who is this guy in the betting with Paddy Power to score for ireland on wed?
:eek: J Tabb :eek:
08/10/2006, 10:24 PM
Billy Lord

Look at how Dutch football developed from the early 1960s once Rinus Michels got his way. Previously, they were worse than us, both in terms of club and international football, but once the change of emphasis occured they grew to being recognised as a great football nation and have maintained a respctable status. If you control the means of production, you are in control full stop. Karl Marx's analysis of the industrial revolution is ideal for football.
Irish schoolboy clubs are only interested in sending kids to England rather than develop talent, and as long as EL clubs renege on that responsibility we are at the mercy of other, outside forces.
If EL clubs spent more of their meagre resources on coaching kids rather than on mercenary players we'd reap a huge benefit within ten years.
That's how we see it at Shamrock Rovers and I can't think of a reason for not going down that route. It's all about the future if you love the game and your club.
09/10/2006, 4:05 AM
Marked Man

It does help that the Dutch have a load of ex-colonies.
09/10/2006, 6:30 AM
CollegeTillIDie

Well perhaps the EL players not being selected situation will be solved for us.
The G14 have taken a case against FIFA and UEFA, which if they win,will see the parent National Associations having to pay wages of players called up to international duty, and compensate the clubs when players get injured.
The FAI will not be able to afford the exhorbitant, and quite frankly wasted money, paid to Premiership players.
Therefore we will be forced to call up EL full-time professionals.

In the meantime we face a Czech Republic side led by Spirelike forward Jan Koller and Milan Baros in rampant form. With let's face it the worst defence in the group bar San Marino( minus Richard Dunne), no defensive midfielder, and a clueless manager. If we lose by less than 6-0 it will be a feather in Staunton's cap.
09/10/2006, 6:35 AM
CollegeTillIDie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marked Man

It does help that the Dutch have a load of ex-colonies.

Well we have benefitted in the past by the parentage and grandparentage rule which in it's own way was our version of having colonies. The Dutch use colonies we use diaspora. In twenty years people such as Zbigniew Szebowski and his fellow Dublin/Irish born Slavic people will be eligible to play as will Wednesday Ogoboya and his fellow Irish born people of Nigerian origin. And then we might have a good team. But it will take that long.

In Women's soccer , the Irish have also called up players born in the USA by this route. USA has won two Olympic Gold medals and two World Cups in the Women's Game and were for many years #1 ranked nation on earth.
09/10/2006, 6:37 AM
CollegeTillIDie

Paddy Kenny
2 starts : Goals conceded 9 Goals Against Average 4.5

Now it's not Paddy's fault we suddenly have a $hit defence however.....

Conclusion, we need to score 5 to get a draw !
09/10/2006, 6:39 AM
CollegeTillIDie

Who is Jay Tabb? I think he may have played for Ireland at Underage level but I am not 100% sure about that.
09/10/2006, 6:43 AM
CollegeTillIDie

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdjaC

Yes all these EL players who play in the EL for a pittance are better than the players playing last night on 20k a week more in some cases.

EL players play in the EL for a reason, last night Ireland had a decent 11 out. There were some good players there, fact remains they hadnt a ****ing clue what to do.

Looking at Aston Villa as an example of how a team can change with a decent manager in charge. It doesnt matter what 11 is out EL or PL based if they dont ****ing play for Ireland or have a manager who has a ****ing clue about how to manage, your fairly ****ed from the word go.

/Billy Lord that was the weirdest PM i have ever got sorry for you loss :confused:

kdjac

Quite clearly you are not up to speed.
There are at least 4 full-time professional clubs nowadays in the EL.
They play for teams that regularly play against European Opposition.
A higher standard than that experienced by Coca-Cola Championship Players and people playing in Reserve team football cross-channel.

Cork City played Apollon Limassol in the Champions League Qualifiers
And beat them over two legs. There were a number of Apollon Limassol players in the Cyprus squad and indeed team on Saturday.
Conclusion, the Cork City defence and midfield would not have conceded 5 against their national team.

And let's not forget one thing. If Cyprus had actually taken all of their chances it would have been 10-2!
09/10/2006, 6:48 AM
CollegeTillIDie

Boh Diddley

Thanks for the link to Stephen Moore's piece. Have to agree that team and 16 would have done a lot better. I will refer to a post I put on another thread.
If we had an All-Ireland team going out to face the Czechs on Wednesday, given that Richard Dunne is unavailable and Shay Given is injured and Robbie Keane and Damien Duff are largely incapable of influencing a game,on current form the All-Ireland team would be all NORTHERNERS!
09/10/2006, 7:16 AM
ifk101

Quote:

Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

Who is Jay Tabb? I think he may have played for Ireland at Underage level but I am not 100% sure about that.

He's an U21 international that was recommended to Stan by Don Givens. Stan has never seen Tabb play a competitive match.
09/10/2006, 9:05 AM
Poor Student

I think what has happened more than anything in Scotland is that the clubs stopped bringing in overpaid Bosman mercenaries. Clubs like Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell, Dundee and Dundee United filled their clubs with overpaid underperforming foreigners in an attempt to catch up with the Old Firm. The Old Firm, particularly Rangers were guilty of this too. This held back the blooding through of Scottish youngsters. There's basically a generation of any decent Scottish players missing from the 1998 World Cup with the likes John Collins, Paul Lambert, Tom Boyd, Kevin Gallagher, Colin Hendry etc. to the current one. The only major player to come through in between is Barry Ferguson. Most clubs nearly bankrupted themselves with overspending and missing the boat to get a new Sky TV deal and clubs like Hibs, Aberdeen and Motherwell had to essentially go right back to the youths and slash the expenses. Almost UCD type models. Even Celtic and Rangers had to bring through more youngsters the likes of Hutton, Smith, Burke, Maloney, Beattie, McManus etc. There's a stream of young Scottish talent coming through who were also developed well by the former Scots U-21 Rainer Bonhoff (the one success of Vogts' regime). Though we're comparable to Scotland in size, our domestic leagues are not comparable. Scotland's top clubs i.e. the Old Firm are actually capable of signing and retaining the nation's top talents. Scotland's problem in domestic soccer was overpaid foreign mercenaries, ours is mercenary xenophilic fans.
09/10/2006, 9:18 AM
bigmac

Quote:

Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

Quite clearly you are not up to speed.
There are at least 4 full-time professional clubs nowadays in the EL.
They play for teams that regularly play against European Opposition.
A higher standard than that experienced by Coca-Cola Championship Players and people playing in Reserve team football cross-channel.

Cork City played Apollon Limassol in the Champions League Qualifiers
And beat them over two legs. There were a number of Apollon Limassol players in the Cyprus squad and indeed team on Saturday.
Conclusion, the Cork City defence and midfield would not have conceded 5 against their national team.

And let's not forget one thing. If Cyprus had actually taken all of their chances it would have been 10-2!

I don't know about regularly playing CTID - in fairness, 4 or 6 games a year hardly constitutes regular competition against a higher level. While there were Cypriot based players in the team, there were also players who are playing regular Champions League football.
I don't think that the EL is a panacea to heal all wounds, but I have to agree with the sentiment that Staunton got his team setup completely wrong. It's ironic that not one of those journalists who criticised Kerr for being conservative has noted that being adventurous and playing 5 attacking players gets us beaten 5-2 by Cyprus. Good piece by Mark Lawrenson in the IT today about it - fairly reasoned view about how the players just aren't good enough.
09/10/2006, 9:56 AM
Rory H

whatever about players....i just hope our next manager is stephen kenny...of course it wont be ...it will be someone like souness or o leary..or some other waster who is half washed up........i guess international and league football will just remain completly seperate from each other....

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