The myth of we're just "happy to be there"

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09/03/2005, 3:29 PM
dynamo kerry

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

I knew it:). Barca play great football but Chelski are a team that grinds out wins.

All legends, but what about the likes of Phil Baab ? Mc Ateer (apart from holland), and the rest of those muppets doin the starset and hutch rountine in Dublin. hardly pro's

rubbish and nitpicking. besides they were onscene in the 90's. You said that thats when football took off in ireland.

contradicting yourself there.

get a grip lad.
09/03/2005, 3:31 PM
thejollyrodger

Some of this stuff is so stupid. Were crap because we cant win away matches. To qualify all you have to do is win all of your home games and draw all of your away games. That in itself is tough for any team. You dont get any special prize for winning all the games.

Against weaker opposition like Faroes, Cypruss and hopefully Israel we can pick up a win.

We have a very good squad at the moment, very good manager, team spirit, all of it. The only thing we dont have is the right attitude, we think were supposed to loose.
09/03/2005, 4:13 PM
ciaran76

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donal81

Good point but in USA 94, I have a feeling that plenty there thought that they could go home having beaten Italy in the first game. They might compete to the best of their ability but its the mentality which some might question.

I know what your saying here but i also think the weather had to do with our performance there. Sure we were not even allowed water unless you ran to the touchline and get a water bag or what ever it was. And if i remember correctly FIFA tried to stop this. :eek:
09/03/2005, 4:28 PM
OwlsFan

in the land of the blind, the one-eyed is king

[
We have a very good squad at the moment, very good manager, team spirit, all of it. The only thing we dont have is the right attitude, we think we're supposed to loose (sic).[/QUOTE]

I think you're the only one that thinks we're going to lose. The only time I saw us go away from home half expecting to lose was, dare I say it, under Big Mc away to Croatia and we got our just desserts, albeit in the final minute. Under Charlton, except near the end, we were almost impossible to beat away from home. That's what got us through. The team feared no one and to have to listen to this bullshti talk about the needing the right attitude and then we'll succeed - we have had the right attitude as far as I'm concerned but of course Roy Keane has spoken otherwise, so shall it be. All kneel and obey.
09/03/2005, 4:56 PM
thejollyrodger

Quote:

rubbish and nitpicking

?? We were the beer brigade in '94. It was all about beer after matches for some of the players. It wasnt about what happened on the pitch and winning.

Baab and McAteer were just jumping on a bandwagon, they couldnt play for England cos they werent good enough. Plus they were never really pro's or pushed themselves hard enough. Something McAteer admitted himself.

Soccer was sold to the general population back in the 90's but it wasnt due to any of those mugs IMO. Im saying that we had some legends in our time playing for ireland but there was a lot of hangers on & loosers in the side too.

Now, All the Ireland 11 are pro's and winners, I expect we'll do a lot better in this WCQ and WC :) I think we will top our group and should do very well in Germany.
09/03/2005, 5:14 PM
eirebhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

Baab and McAteer were just jumping on a bandwagon, they couldnt play for England cos they werent good enough.

Babb always wanted to play for us.
09/03/2005, 6:09 PM
Cowboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

Baab and McAteer were just jumping on a bandwagon, they couldnt play for England cos they werent good enough.

Simply not true in babbs case, he wanted to wear green from an early age
10/03/2005, 12:03 AM
dynamo kerry

Quote:

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Babb always wanted to play for us.

babb got a lot of stick at lansdowne expecially that game with the overhead kick.. then there was the other game when he threw his jersey into the east terrace at the end.

I never doubted babbs effort. A little less than pro off the fieild maybe but I wouldn't call him hanger on.
10/03/2005, 12:47 AM
Closed Account 2

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

... The team of USA 94 was at the end of its days with no striker of international class.

What about ....
10/03/2005, 3:10 PM
carnstien

Quote:

Originally Posted by davros

:rolleyes:From the fount of all wisdom.....regardless of what anyone thinks of RMK.....He's past it(last night was ample proof v.AC).....if he cant do it for ManUre.....like he'll do it for Ireland. :confused:

Keane has had a great season, didn't you see his performances against Arsenal and Liverpool, where Vieira and Gerrard were destroyed. You really don't know what you are talking about if you think he's past it.

Man U's problem against AC was the set up, as well as the fact than Milan are a better team (top of Serie A).
10/03/2005, 3:25 PM
Lionel Ritchie

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

What about ....

Aldo was a great player in his day ...however his day was some considerable time previous to 1994. Ironic I know that he scored probably his most important goal in an Ireland shirt against Mexico -but he wasn't even our first choice striker -despite the slim pickings available to Jack at the time.
Aldo was putting in great performances regularly for a Tranmere Rovers side that were playing above themselves but he was very much in the autumn years of his career.
10/03/2005, 4:25 PM
OwlsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnstien

You can tell so much about someone by the fact that they don't like Roy Keane, they usually haven't a clue about much else either.

We can win the World Cup next year. We have the players, we have the team spirit, we have a tactically adept manager. If England, Germany, France or Italy had what we have, they would EXPECT to win the World Cup. We should be thinking along the same lines.

It doen't mean that we will win it, it just increases our chances greatly.

I don't like Roy Keane because he let us down when we needed him in Korea/Japan and because he picks and chooses the games he plays for us and always has done and wouldn't even travel to Iran for the World Cup play off. He is truly a great man and despite his great will to win and positive thinking, the richest club in the world of which he is captain, has only won the CHampions League once. "We will win. We will win. Opps, there's a goal for AC Milan..We will win. We will win. Opps, there's another one. We will win. We will win. Opps, there's the final whistle. We're out".

I'm sure England, Germany, Italy would love to have O'Brien, Kilbane, Morrisson etc playing for them - get a grip. We have three world class players in Given, Keane (Saipan) and Duff. The rest are ordinary enough premiership players who play out of their skinn when they put on the green jersey whether under Kerr, McCarthy or Charlton. We have always kicked above out weight at international level. Please God it will continue. Repeat after me 50 times: "We will win, we will win..."
12/03/2005, 5:14 AM
mypost

Quote:

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Roy Keane

despite his great will to win and positive thinking, the richest club in the world of which he is captain, has only won the CHampions League once.

The richest club in the world is Chelsea.

Technically, he only won the CL once. In reality Bayern battered them in the '99 final, but they lost their bottle in injury time. :mad:
12/03/2005, 5:35 AM
mypost

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnstien

We can win the World Cup next year. We have the players, we have the team spirit, we have a tactically adept manager. If England, Germany, France or Italy had what we have, they would EXPECT to win the World Cup. We should be thinking along the same lines.

It doesn't mean that we will win it, it just increases our chances greatly.

Well, that's a lot different to what we were hearing 12 months ago. People were saying that we would be very lucky to make the play-off. :( Amazing what a draw in France can do for expectations. :)

Of course, we can beat bigger countries. In the past, Holland came to Dublin and lost, Spain came to Dublin and lost, Italy thought they would beat us in USA '94 and lost, Germany thought they would beat us in 1994 and lost. In fact, they haven't beaten us for ages.

Portugal came to Dublin in '95 and lost. Croatia came to Dublin off the back of a World Cup and lost. England, and Brazil haven't beaten us for 20 years. We have qualified from our World Cup Finals groups every time. We have only lost 3 competitive games in Dublin in 20 years.

Our record is good. We can hold our own against the so-called bigger teams, even with all their greater resources. If we could win more games against weaker teams, then we would be doing a lot better than we currently are.

If we take advantage of our favourable fixture list for the rest of the WC qualifiers, we should win our group. Even if winning the tournament in Germany is unlikely, we should aim to go as far as possible. Everyone would be happy with that.
12/03/2005, 10:48 AM
eirebhoy

carnstein - Are you a Man Utd supporter? Every post I look at from you I just think of you as a Man U supporter.

There was two threads on boards.ie this week. One was Milan v Man Utd, the other was Leverkusen v Liverpool. It was shocking the difference in the posts in each thread. Man U had just been beaten by Milan on their home patch yet 90% of the fans were predicting them to qualify. Liverpool won 3-1 in their home match, Leverkusen were without their only 3 centre halfs yet the Liverpool fans were expecting the worst.

I am with the Liverpool fans on this. Why should we be going into the World cup with expectations on winning it? What do we gain out of it? If we fail to get there were just going to be disappointed. If we set our expectations that little but lower we won't be as disappointed if we fail to get to the final and we will be even happier if we do. Think about it. We don't gain anything from having such high expectations and we don't have any reason to have expectations that high. Who's happier to get to an FA cup final, a Sc�nthorpe fan or a Man U fan? There is only one answer to that question. Who's more disappointed to go out in the quarters, a Man U fan or a Sc�nthorpe fan? Again, there's only one answer to that question.

It honestly is this very reason that I can't see past you being a Man U fan.
12/03/2005, 1:31 PM
Slash/ED

Quote:

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

carnstein - Are you a Man Utd supporter? Every post I look at from you I just think of you as a Man U supporter.

There was two threads on boards.ie this week. One was Milan v Man Utd, the other was Leverkusen v Liverpool. It was shocking the difference in the posts in each thread. Man U had just been beaten by Milan on their home patch yet 90% of the fans were predicting them to qualify. Liverpool won 3-1 in their home match, Leverkusen were without their only 3 centre halfs yet the Liverpool fans were expecting the worst.

I am with the Liverpool fans on this. Why should we be going into the World cup with expectations on winning it? What do we gain out of it? If we fail to get there were just going to be disappointed. If we set our expectations that little but lower we won't be as disappointed if we fail to get to the final and we will be even happier if we do. Think about it. We don't gain anything from having such high expectations and we don't have any reason to have expectations that high. Who's happier to get to an FA cup final, a Sc�nthorpe fan or a Man U fan? There is only one answer to that question. Who's more disappointed to go out in the quarters, a Man U fan or a Sc�nthorpe fan? Again, there's only one answer to that question.

It honestly is this very reason that I can't see past you being a Man U fan.

Yeah but there's a difference between players and fans in that regard, I see where your coming from from a fans POV but players should never 'aim low'.
12/03/2005, 2:31 PM
Condex

Quote:

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

We have three world class players in Given, Keane (Saipan) and Duff. The rest are ordinary enough premiership players who play out of their skinn when they put on the green jersey whether under Kerr, McCarthy or Charlton. We have always kicked above out weight at international level. Please God it will continue. Repeat after me 50 times: "We will win, we will win..."

I would doubt that we have three world class players, a term used for a player that could get on a hypotheical world eleven. Keane is fading he was definetly not world class last Wednesday. Given and Duff just maybe...
15/03/2005, 1:10 PM
OwlsFan

My definition of world class is a player who would get into most sides around the world and Given, Keane (Saipan) and Duffer fit the bill here. Otherwise we're a team of journeymen whom some believe will win the World Cup by saying "We're going to win the World CUp".

The World Cup is a tough nut to crack. Since 1954 Brazil have won it 5 times, West Germany and Argentina twice, England, Italy and France one a piece. No minnows here. Not even Holland or Spain have won it.

Our aim (as it has always been) is (a) qualify for the next round (which we've always done to our immense credit), and (b) (in the old cliche) - take each game as it comes in the next rounds and try and progress as far as we can.

We can expect no more but if we do get to a semi-final or even a final, fantastic. But going saying "we'll win it" will leave those with that theory with egg on their face and blaming lack of ambition of the others for our "failure" when the truth is we've always "done wor best" as Big Jack would say.

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