QuoteGood point but in USA 94, I have a feeling that plenty there thought that they could go home having beaten Italy in the first game. They might compete to the best of their ability but its the mentality which some might question.
Can I myth on the head that is being perpetuated by Keane and also Fanning in the Sunday Indo and others on this site - namely that once we qualify, that's it and that we're just happy to be there for the craic and the ceol. Recently Keane repeated this on RTE News. Fact: Euro 88 - we're within 8 minutes of the Semis until robbed by an Offside goal (and incidentally Aldridge is pushed in the peno box a few minutes after). Italia 90: we don't go home after the first round but qualify for the quarter finals. USA 94: we don't go home after the first round and qualify for the next round and go out to a very strong Dutch team. Japan/Korea 2002: we don't go home after the first round and go out on penos only to Spain. We all know who went home early there. These are not the peformances of teams who are there only for the craic. We are totally different to many teams like Scotland who have never advanced to the 2nd stage of a competition. We go to win. We compete to our best ability and we enjoy it.
You don't have to be a demented lunatic that scowls at everyone to be a top player or have a hunger to win. Look at many of our best players like McGrath, Lawrenson, Robbie Keane, Duff, Brady, Whelan etc- all great players. All competitive. All wanting to win but able to do it without denegrating their fellow teammates or their nation.
So please: next time you glibly say Irish teams are just happy to be there remember the facts, not the myth.
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Good point but in USA 94, I have a feeling that plenty there thought that they could go home having beaten Italy in the first game. They might compete to the best of their ability but its the mentality which some might question.
why set the bar so low, greece didn't.Originally Posted by davros
can we not even hope of causing an upset???
I think some, not all of our players have had this attitude of "happy to be here" whether we like it or not (McAteer for one) and I think if you have that attitude then you are almost beaten straight away.
Nobody's saying we didn't do well but who's to say we couldn't have done better if ALL of our players went out onto the pitch EXPECTING to win regardless of the opposition.
The difference between the 100/1 horse and the footballer is that the horse doesn't know that it's 100/1 now does it? It just goes out to run and try it's best and sometimes has it's day....
I don't think anyone can say that Ireland go into any particular game thinking they won't win. Anything else is silly. I think people put far too much stock in a team's (or the fans') relaxed attitude after they get knocked out - that's just the way we are. Once we get knocked out - as is almost always going to happen - there's no point kicking ourselves about what might have been (like the English) - might as well look back and enjoy what we've done.
I think all footballers go into games knowing that they CAN win but it can kinda be half hearted without a lot of belief behind it.
Much better to have that focus and single mindedness of "we WILL win".
Kevin Moran said that before we took the field against England in Euro 88 and that Ronnie Whelan said to him that we would be lucky if we could keep them down to one today. He could not believe that here was a guy that had won a European Cup but because he had a green jersey on felt lesser than those in white ones.
There is no doubting that preparation for games was not ideal, Six or Seven pints before the Game against Italy and Harrys Challenge etc. In addition, in the build up to the game against Italy a lot of the players were talking to the press saying things like it would not be so bad to go out against Italy in Rome. or if you were to pick a place to go out of the World cup, Rome against Italy would be it.
Last edited by NeilMcD; 07/03/2005 at 2:08 PM.
In Trap we trust
In fairness to Ronnie, he wasnt going in with rose tinted glasses. Although it gores me to say it, England could have had at least 1 had Packie Bonner not been as inspired as he was. Thankfully Packie didnt didnt put a foot, knee hand or head wrong.
Who is this guy, Trapper Tony?
I am expecting to qualify for the world cup finals and I'm expecting us to go far, can even picture us lifting the World cup ..
To the point that I've arranged time off work for it already adding up 2 years holidays for the world cup finals and I will be booking my flights very soon ( as soon as they will let me book that far ahead)
I would expect no less from the team we have..
I do get stick for this saying I'm living in a dream world and I'm deluded.. But I don't think so, I have full faith in the team.. It buugs me when people say oh I'd be happy with a draw in this match ect. ect. A draw is only a consolation prize..
I don't think people were happy for us to go home after Italy -though there was certainly a lot of rightful satisfaction at an old account being settled.
People were cognisant, however, of the fact that
(a) we had no top flight striker in our squad (our most prolific at that time being Tommy Coyne of Motherwell who collapsed after the Italy game from toxic shock caused by some fool making him guzzle cold water in an attempt to make him produce a sample for the dope testers)
and (b) the lunacy of the midday kick offs always meant a team from our climate would be hobbled after a single match of it.
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
I think before a game or a tournament you should expect to win it and prepare as if you are going to win it Do everthing to the best of your abilty and that includes the backroom staff etc. However I will say that if you get a draw from an away match and you have not played well there is a time when you can say you are satisfied with the draw, but I think this should only be the case after the game. Sometimes managers or players say it before a game and that tends to bug me too. However I can fully understand a manager coming out after a game that his team have not played well in and saying he was satisfied with a draw
In Trap we trust
It comes from the top. Charlton and McCarthey were 'just happy to be there'.
Euro88
After luckily beating England we found ourselves with a chance of SFs. We dominated USSR in the best performance of any Irish team IMO only to draw and then went out to the Dutch. We enjoyed the tournament as it was the first time and some probably thought the last tiem we'd qualify. I was in Stuttgart and I witnessed 60yo men openly crying after the game as they had waited so long for this.
Italia90
Jack Charlton was like a one-man circus in this World Cup and kept the journos happy with a few rants and quotes and cigar smoking nonsense. We did well (four draws !!!) but maybe could have done better had we beaten Egypt and avoided playing the Italians.
USA94
More nonsense from Charlton. While he misses his flight back from Washington and slept on a bench in the airport (tight fcuker) Setters is making a ****** of training. Over two hours in the heat. It was Townsend (as captain) and not Keane who took the players off the training pitch that day. Yes the heat and lack of a striker hindered us but had we beaten Norway we could have avoided the Dutch and Orlando. As winners we would have stayed in NY. Jack stated that he hated the WC and the USA and FIFA and all that and that is not good way of preparing your players. Players who had to put their empty suitcases in the hallway because their hotel rooms were so small.
Saipan02
It's my World Cup and I'm going to enjoy it and no-one is gonna spoil it on me - Mick McCarthy. Nuff said.
We have over the years turned it on and were capable of beating anyone on our day but bad management who know that the Irish back home will have a party win lose or draw lost sight of why we were there and what we could have achieved.
The best Irish squad that we would have had was for Euro92 when we failed to qualify. We would have won that tournament. We lost because we threw away a 3-1 lead in Poland and our great manager said "A draw is sometimes better than a win".
At least our current manager has a winning mentality even if it is sometimes a "win-ugly" one.
Good girl, that's the spirit, i will go for the whole month, will be finishing uni that may, so perfect timingI am expecting to qualify for the world cup finals and I'm expecting us to go far, can even picture us lifting the World cup ..
To the point that I've arranged time off work for it already adding up 2 years holidays for the world cup finals and I will be booking my flights very soon ( as soon as they will let me book that far ahead)
I would expect no less from the team we have..
I do get stick for this saying I'm living in a dream world and I'm deluded.. But I don't think so, I have full faith in the team.. It buugs me when people say oh I'd be happy with a draw in this match ect. ect. A draw is only a consolation prize..
, if i can i will fly home for the day, but not if ireland is playing, sorry cousin!!!
if "the trouble's" of Saipan02 did one think for us it highlight the shambles the FAI were and the poor managment and organisational skills we had..
Hopefully they have learned from the mistakes and they will approach this WC like professionals and show the world that we have a top class team to be feared and not a happy go lucky team of boosers and messers.....
My cousin is gettin married on one of the group dates too and half our family are going to Germany( Including her brother and FatherGood girl, that's the spirit, i will go for the whole month, will be finishing uni that may, so perfect timing).. she's not impressed we just realised and were trying to get her to change the date.. very stubbern though
Could be difficult to change date, u know what these receptions venues and churches are like for weddings, are always booked at least a year in advance, she could get married in germany
he he can't see that happening.. She only got engaged last month so hopfully it won't be too much bother..Could be difficult to change date, u know what these receptions venues and churches are like for weddings, are always booked at least a year in advance, she could get married in germany
Her father is going mad..
heh he, does her fiance not want to go to the world cup? SUrely they could get him to persuade her.........
i think the players always wanted to win each match, but Roy's problem was the way we went about it. We didnt have any real organisation and planning. The FAI were flying the blazers over in first class while it had the squad all crammed up in economy class. Stuff like that. Other stuff like not having coaches to cover diet, a technical coach, proper soccer balls, blah blah etc etc.
In the past it was always a case of what could have been instead of delivering on wins ! Genesis wraps up a lot of all that.
The way Eddie O Sullivan the rugby coach prepares was something sadly lacking in previous soccer campaigns. But the national phyche still isnt fully comfortable with being the favourites. Were not really playing at our best when were odds on to win.
Well the purpose of this rant, is that Ireland still has to progress in terms of organistion and preperation. We should be putting teams like Isreal and Switzerland away at half time. Winning is a habit. The country should expect a lot more than just to be there.
We should top our group and at least make it to the quarter finals or even semi's of the W.C. We have a decent enough squad, the only real problem is sticking the chances away.
A lot of misquotes or misinterpretations of quotes there. What is wrong with Mick Mc saying that he was going to enjoy the World Cup ? You seem to equate "enjoyment" with "losing". On the contrary - happy squads succeed more often that in-fighting or unhappy squads. You can enjoy something with a 100% commitment to win.
Saipan is only highlighted because of Keane's rants. The rest of the arrangements for the Korea/Japan trip were near perfect.
Someone said "We have over the years turned it on and were capable of beating anyone on our day but bad management who know that the Irish back home will have a party win lose or draw lost sight of why we were there and what we could have achieved". So called "bad management" got us to 3 World Cups and in each case we qualified for the next round and in Euro 88 were 7 minutes away from the semis. The team of USA 94 was at the end of its days with no striker of international class. Yet we still beat Italy. It's so easy to say if and but and maybe - we have done fantastically well for a country where soccer is very much a second choice sport. The facts show we were not there just for the craic - we were there to compete and get as far as we could.
As for Brian Kerr being a winner - good luck to him but he is not a winner (yet) with the Senior team. For both the Basel and Paris games he picked negative teams (Finnan playing on the right). He has yet to beat one of our major rivals either in the last group or this (draw and loss vs Swiss, draw vs Russians and draw in Paris). His major tests are to come in our two home games and in the forthcoming game away to the Israel. Possibly a win was there for us in Paris if we had been a bit more adventurous but if, maybe etc etc. However, we don't do away wins in tournaments against major opposition. Scotland is my only memory of a major win away so I was happy with the 1pt in Paris. Fingers crossed for the rest.
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