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1. None - I believe it has strengthened it.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
2. I have detailed this earlier - I believe that having two International teams, picking from the same pool of players throughout the 32 Counties, creating de facto Ireland "A" and "B" sides, would have weakened the IFA's ability (and, indeed, that of the FAI) to remain autonomous.
First of all GR, as stated I have no hatred of the NI team and was disappointed this year that they threw away the lead in Poland and then balls-ed up against Slovakia. I do not wish to see it abolished either.
The last time England and NI played, just the one anthem was used. Which is a bit strange for a competitive international fixture, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
I agree that many people share your views. I don't actually think that the NI flag (not the Union Jack as the UK isn't playing) is anything to do with the IFA and all criticism here is unjustified. Leadership is required from Stormont, including nationalist politicians.
But as regards the anthem, I have to ask you honestly where is the leadership on this issue from either the Amalgamation of NISC or the IFA? As stated the IFA commissioned a report on this issue, and the recommendation was to change the anthem and they IGNORED it.
So one would be forgiven for concluding that there is no real will to do anything about it. No?
It MAY change? When would it change? You have no idea because it is not being genuinely considered. The could implement Danny Boy tomorrow were there a real desire, and work on something better in the short term.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
That was some of the milder stuff that has been posted. It was chosen as an example because one of the posters on this forum was complaining about lack of objectivity on this forum yet was posting stuff like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
As regards lack of objectivity, by you own admission, you have deleted topics on your forum about this very issue. Is that not taking lack of objectivity to a bit of an extreme?
This makes no sense. You are only a proper Irish NI fan if you wish to have nothing to do with other Irish football fans?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
No chip on my shoulder, I am not stating that the NI team is not established with a history at this point. By proper international team I meant one with which players from my community can associate. That is up to the supporters/IFA to sort out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
60 years ago or not, that Act is still applicable in the UK. Acts have to applied at some stage, and it is still in force. People from the ROI are not foreign in the UK, inculding NI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Well that I agree on and makes perfect sense. Could you provide some clarification to someone from NI what exactly meets the description of a proper "NI fan"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
There are mixed views on this. There are people in the nationalist community who actively want to see the NI team beat in every match. This is not a very intelligent way of creating a consensus or arguing the case for a unified team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
That is not true. The last time I heard your fellow UK fans from Wales and Scotland thought little of the anthem/trappings of your team either. It was booed in both Cardiff and Glasgow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
With respect, do you not think it is a little strange that the two places where your (UK) anthem has received the worst reception are in fact in the UK itself?
I hope your two friends enjoy supporting NI. I have two who do likewise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Players/coaches yes, fans yes. IFA no. See the sweet heart deal with Linfield and the attitude taken to Belfast Celtic/Derry. It has covered ground from its darkest days, but still has some ground to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Something arrangement needs to be made about future switches, as they will certainly happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Ii is not right that the IFA train a player and then he declares for the FAI without either compensation from the FAI to the IFA, or the FAI taking over the training of the player at an earlier age (ie getting directly involved with schools/clubs in NI).
But I have to take issue with the term 'poaching' that is constantly applied to NI players declaring for the ROI. You would swear reading the OWC website that Delaney was travelling up at night and abducting the likes of Gibson/Duffy/Wilson/Ger Crossley from their beds! The players have enough intelligence to make up their own minds as to which path to choose. I don't think you need to be reminded of the reasons for this.
I also concede that a lot of NI fans disagreed over the Darren Gibson case. I think it is settled now, and rightly so. It is time for the FAI to step up the plate and make sure that the IFA is sorted out adequately.
As someone born just up the road from me, I wish Johnny Evans the best of luck playing for Man Utd and NI.Quote:
I do feel sorry though for the likes of Evans who will never get a chance to play in a major competition - how he will envy most his team mates at Man United.
A lot of good work has been done by coaches/players divorced from the decision making process of teh IFA. They just get that anthems issue sorted out and it'll be nearly there.Quote:
"Football For All" is about exactly what it says on the tin - people from Northern Ireland (whether they be nationalist, unionist, neither, male, female, young, old, disabled, from whatever ethnic or religious background etc, etc, etc) enjoying the game of football.
They have to decide, "Do we wish to bring more nationalist fans in at the expense of losing a few Loyalist knuckle draggers?" I hope they make the right decision.
Yeah, but we're comfortable enough with our support's religious, cultural & ethnic mix, not to set up a body called 'Football For All'....
As for being 'Irish', people only react to what they see as anti-Irish, much it emanating from certain persons in N.E.Ulster, which could be more :rolleyes: more prevalent on an, er, Irish MB!
Nothing to do with Myopia, but knowing better! ;)
This is certainly true, if the IFA had done this they may as well have basted themselves, stuck a holly in their ass and jumped in the oven!Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
That defies rational scrutiny. The part you have no control over strengthens autonomy the part that you would have total control over weakens IFA autonomyQuote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
But I can perceive some logic if I attempt to look at it from from an exclusively political Unionist perspective.
That's interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Maybe you should tell the FAI.
http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=c...=13&Itemid=276
They have a first class relationship with the FFA folk at the IFA.
Unfortunately, whilst we share things like disabilities and ethnic minorities with the good folk of the Irish Republic, we have a problem with divided religious and cultural issues - you may have noticed, over the years.:rolleyes:
I look at it from a Northern Ireland supporter perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Do honestly think that having two Irish International teams, picking from the same pool of players throughout the 32 Counties, creating de facto Ireland "A" and "B" sides, would strengthen the autonomy of either Association?:eek:
I really wanted to stay out of this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
However taking delight and making fuin of a rival's defeat does not negate the excellent work done in Football for All.
I daresay even one or two Irish fans might take delight at an England defeat. Indeed there is a song that has been sung in pubs across Europe and elsewhere to the tune of Harry Belefonte's banana boat song celebrating another famous handball goal in the World Cup. I don't think we'll be singing that one again.
As for the arguments in favour of a single International football team on this island it is just not going to happen for a whole number of reasons incl political as well as naked self interest. If you are really concerned about giving Johnny Evans the chance to play in a major finals then why not a single UK team or worse still one team for both of these islands. It happens in rugby.
No, I'm not surprised - in the slightest.Quote:
Originally Posted by BYCTWD
Not sure what avatars have to do with anything - had you been following, you'd had known that I tentatively support the concept of an AI "Premier" League.
Myopic? Yeah - look it up in the dictionary.
That's primarily for disabled people which is great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
But not formed out of guilt because a majority of fans were religious & ethnic bigots. Though don't think most of our fans have any special religious issues....
;)
It's all about the tone of that mocking though. As in being quite hateful and prevalent throughout that MB. So much so, that much of it can not be read by just 'anyone'.Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
Still the IFA must be very proud of such fans. And embarassed in contrast to their FfA.
Would it weaken or strengthen the original one - the one you broke away from?Quote:
Originally Posted by BYCTWD
Yes, it is great - as is the FAI's and IFA's work with ethnic minorities.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
The IFA's FFA programme was not formed out of "guilt", and a "majority" of Northern Ireland fans are not "religious & ethnic" bigots.
Isn't it just.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
geysir will be in shortly to challenge you on your answer to my "stupid question".Quote:
Originally Posted by BYCTWD
According to him, your answer defies "rational scrutiny", and he'll think you have an "exclusively political Unionist perspective".
:D
Oh, by the way, in case you didn't know, Northern Ireland fans want nothing to do with anything that weakens the autonomy of the IFA.
Just thought I'd clear that up for you.
They obviously didn't teach you basic arithmetic. Else you'd realise that the 1994 World Cup was more than 15 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardee Bhoy
The lazy ****-stirrer suggests the NI team be abolished. Which would obviously, er deny choice to fans who want to support it.Quote:
But where does Walker in his article 'deny' choice?
You (personally and with many others on this thread) clearly aren't in favor of football for all. If you were, you wouldn't be suggesting abolishing the NI team.Quote:
Yeah, but we're comfortable enough with our support's religious, cultural & ethnic mix, not to set up a body called 'Football For All'....
Whoa, Mr Acronym. While the overwhelming majority on foot.ie obviously support the Republic of Ireland as you'd expect, the same can't be said for united Irish leagues, let alone national teams. Many posters on the thread have pointed out that, variouslyQuote:
Originally Posted by BYCTWD
a) adding a few teams from Northern Ireland wouldn't necessarily improve standards in the League of Ireland
b) an all-Ireland team able to select from the population throughout Ireland and beyond wouldn't necessarily do any better than the existing all-Ireland team able to, er select from the population throughout Ireland and beyond
c) there's nothing in either suggestion for NI fans or those of most IL clubs.
I am more than happy to let history take it's course.Quote:
Originally Posted by BYCTWD
The thing about history taking it's course though, there are always people behind the wheel taking it there.
Funnily enough, we have no desire whatsoever to "lose out".Quote:
Originally Posted by BYCTWD
Mixed vibes from IL Clubs on the AIL thingy - Setanta Cup dying it's slow death (will there be one next year??) is a set back in that regard.
Good man. I was in Chorzow and thought it a fair result, we hardly threw away a win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan the Man
Aye, like I said it's used by three UEFA members- NI, Liechtenstein and England.Quote:
The last time England and NI played, just the one anthem was used. Which is a bit strange for a competitive international fixture, no?
Yes, there's a will- shared by me personally. No, it isn't a majority will or a high-priority issue at present. I hope that will change.Quote:
So one would be forgiven for concluding that there is no real will to do anything about it. No?
Come on, either it's mild- little more than banter really- or you could have posted something that really was blatantly hateful. You can find that easily on most web boards, including this one.Quote:
That was some of the milder stuff that has been posted. It was chosen as an example because one of the posters on this forum was complaining about lack of objectivity on this forum yet was posting stuff like this
You could argue whether it was objective or subjective, but when I was a moderator and Ardee Bhoy and co. turned up with their nonsense about planter paranoia, unionists not being really Irish and the like, I had a pretty easy decision. it was moronic and sectarian, so it got zapped.Quote:
As regards lack of objectivity, by you own admission, you have deleted topics on your forum about this very issue. Is that not taking lack of objectivity to a bit of an extreme?
No, read it again more carefully. I said NI fans were genuinely Irish and don't want their genuinely Irish NI team to be abolished. Can't see where you get wanting nothing to do with other Irish football fans from that?Quote:
This makes no sense. You are only a proper Irish NI fan if you wish to have nothing to do with other Irish football fans?
An odd definition. Aren't the other 200-odd countries in FIFA not proper international teams then?Quote:
By proper international team I meant one with which players from my community can associate
Look, there's still a current act on the Brit statute book that says shagging the heir to the throne's missus is treason punishable by death. Doesn't mean it's relevant to whether the NI team should be abolsihed. Pretty much everyone would agree that Britain and the Republic of Ireland are two separate countries, so each is foreign to the other. Maybe not as foreign as San Marino or Andorra, but still foreign.Quote:
60 years ago or not, that Act is still applicable in the UK. Acts have to applied at some stage, and it is still in force. People from the ROI are not foreign in the UK
Ha ha. To be a NI fan you need merely support NI. If you think the team should be abolished, as many on this thread do, then pretty obviously you ain't a NI fan.Quote:
Could you provide some clarification to someone from NI what exactly meets the description of a proper "NI fan"?
I won't comment on such people's intelligence. It's more likely that they don't actually want a unified team by consensus, is it not?Quote:
There are mixed views on this. There are people in the nationalist community who actively want to see the NI team beat in every match. This is not a very intelligent way of creating a consensus or arguing the case for a unified team
Dan, I think you'll find there's a pretty fundamental reason why Welsh and Scottish fans wouldn't be too keen on NI no longer having a separate international side within Britain. Do I need to spell it out for you?Quote:
That is not true. The last time I heard your fellow UK fans from Wales and Scotland thought little of the anthem/trappings of your team either. It was booed in both Cardiff and Glasgow
Aye, their fans barracked God Save the Queen, so we just sang it all the louder. It's just pantomime villainy anyway- only a minority in both Wales and Scotland in every election and poll want independence. In practice GSTQ isn't that big a problem for them either when they play NI or generally.
The Linfield deal although probably distorting of competition within the Irish League, isn't really evidence of anti-nationalist bias, is it? The disgraceful treatment of Belfast Celtic and Derry City was decades, even generations ago. Let's move on.Quote:
See the sweet heart deal with Linfield and the attitude taken to Belfast Celtic/Derry
I've suggested how, No need for any money to directly change hands, just stop picking players who've already played adult international football elsewhere.Quote:
It is time for the FAI to step up the plate and make sure that the IFA is sorted out adequately
They're already doing both. I take your broad point.Quote:
They have to decide, "Do we wish to bring more nationalist fans in at the expense of losing a few Loyalist knuckle draggers?"
Big talk, Comrade BYC. How will you achieve that, by abolishing elections and sending in some tanks to close Windsor Park?Quote:
Originally Posted by BYCTWD
Put it to a poll then- just ask Gustavo or one of the other mods and they'll set one up for you.Quote:
If you put a or b to the foot.ie public as a poll, 99% would say 'why not'?