We just aren't very good...
We just aren't very good...
I'd rather a few new players be blooded for the rest of the campaign and even players with great potential such as Hendrick get a tough lesson such as last night and come 4th in the group rather than coming 3rd in the group or qualifying if it means that we are going into wc2018 or 2020 a stronger team.
Scotland and Poland are average sides that are playing well. Unfortunately, the draw for wc2018 is probably going to be pretty gruesome, as we are almost certain to be 4th seeds and this group might seem pretty tame in comparison.
We can do little about the current footballing culture in this country and the lack of proper coaching of most of our young footballers that will make a big difference for the next 10-15 years, but now might be the time to start from scratch and hope that in the coming 18 months-24 months, fellas like Ian lawlor, Shane Duffy, Hendrick, Brady and Sheridan can mould themselves into a decent unit. Even bringing in fellas like alex o'hanlon or jack Byrne might give their careers a big lift. Mick did it in 96 and it made us a competitive unit after a tough 2 years or so. Ideally, Crowley and grealish too if they decide to switch from supporting us on twitter to officially declaring us.
Bringing in three players who've never played a senior game of football, and are at clubs where the opportunities for advancing to the first team are probably smallest, would be madness. Especially O'Hanlon who can't even hack it at U19 level right now. Pie in the sky stuff.
Bungle in the jungle.
It seems if you believe Ireland could play a slightly better & also more effective brand of football you are deemed to have an inflated expectation, I mean after all our players are completely average. Well so are Scotland's. The difference between Scotland & us Fri night was the Scots tried to construct their own chances through football. Let's be honest it wasn't Tika Taka just clever in possession at times with cool heads & a hell of a lot more confident than us. We have one game plan, lump it & get lucky.
England struggled with 442 with a far better collection of players than we have yet we persist with after being over run Tim & time again. Ireland do have some decent players, every bit as decent as the Scots. We are more than capable of stringing 4 or 5 passes together in the right system. Not Tika taka football just 4 or 5 measured passes from time to time, that is what people who criticise the team are looking for. More or less what Scotland did, work hard be competitive & hard to beat and every now & again keep a cool head & pass it.
Play 451 give us the chance to keep the ball, get the most out of our wingers & still be compact & difficult to beat. Turn the long hoofs into more than just a 50/50 chance. And dare I say it again just be more luke Scotland were, not world beaters, just much better in possession than us.
If it's about managing expectations, I expect us to be more like Scotland the football team than Scotland the rugby team.
It's taken the Scots two years to get to this point. Strachan didn't just come in and have them playing like this overnight. We've had four competitive matches and there has been an improvement in the style of football, regardless of what people, but it was clear that Scotland were a much better-drilled side than us and that's something that doesn't happen over the odd five-day training camp.Quote:
Originally Posted by bishbash
it was difficult to see any evidence of improvement Fri night, it was as bad as any time under Trap. I'm a massive O'Neill fan but judging on that game alone it's hard to see any difference, when push came to shove we went 442 & hoofed it and that's the reality. I really hope it changes to some degree by March & to be fair to MON that he gets his most important players fit & ready.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I doubt I can change your mind through arguing, but if you get the time I think you should think about watching a match from Trap (say Sweden at home) and then last night. The pace of yesterday's game was much higher, which will always lead to more mistakes, but the intent is clearly different from Ireland and I think when we managed to get fluid passages going it was a lot better than anything Trap came up with. It was 4-4-2 and it was more direct than the last three matches, but it was not just hoofing.Quote:
Originally Posted by bishbash
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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Ive watched the game 3 times, unfortunately, you might say! Yeah it was a fully competitive match I've no arguments about that, also I've no arguments that some of our more comfortable players on the ball wee missing in McCarthy, Wilson & Hoolahan. But I can recall only 2 passages where we passed with control & intent. I can't recall Ward making one positive completed pass. My main point is we went back to 442 when we are clearly not good enough to play that way in a positive offensive sense. In that way it feels very mush like something Trap would do.
I counted more than that, to be fair. In the third quarter we managed to slow the pace down (or Scotland got tired) and I thought we passed it quite well and Walters dropped back a bit more to help the midfield, but overall our passing accuracy was abysmal and I think much of it was down to the fact we had two lads standing up front when it clearly wasn't where the game was being played. I have to admit I was surprised we didn't set up with McGeady in the middle like in Germany. With Keane out, we were crying out for somebody with a bit more of a touch and creativity in the middle, and the direct tactics stopped working pretty early in the game. I wonder if the plan was actually to keep two strikers up or if Walters just wasn't doing his job properly, although judging by the fact he played the whole game I'm guessing it was the plan. Either way, I think the differences from the Trap style were more than the similarities, but I think O'Neill will have to look at changing things.Quote:
Originally Posted by bishbash
I genuinely believe that it has to be a move away from 442. I'm a realist I don't believe for one min that we will dominate teams possession wise but I really do think we have some decent players playing in the right system can allow us more constructive possession & I actually believe that will make us defensively more solid as we won't be giving it away so often allowing us to be more organised. As I said I'm a big O'Neill fan & I'd love him to get us playing with some confidence cause if he does he has the motivational skills to bring this team on
I wouldn't play the 442 either, or if we do I'd have a second forward who can bridge the gap between midfield and attack like Naismith does and has the energy to do all the running required. I do think O'Neill called the selection wrong and it was probably riskier to leave ourselves short in midfield than it would have been to play one up top.
Shocked by the result and by much of the outright negative reaction on here. No doubt we got our tactics wrong particularly up front, but I still think we are a better team than we showed. I predicted a win, yes I got it wrong, but don't ram it down my neck as many on here seem to feel it necessary to do to me and others. At least we didn't lose to the Faroes and I am already looking forward to the Scots coming to Dublin. Nothing like a win to shut up whingers. COYBIG!
You heard him. The last thing we need right now is gastric problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
Bish wins.
Talking the most sense here.
Cheeky pup :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
no o hanlon bashing please. he was excellent against real in the 19s champ league 2 weeks ago and against the bulgarians . great coverage on eurosportQuote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
It is baffling how doolin doesn't have o'hanlon in the u19s, especially given that he is a regular starter in the uefa youth league, as is Dan cleary. Byrne and lawlor I would wager will become Irish internationals very soon. Both terrific talents. O'hanlon and cleary maybe less so, but still very good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Anyhow, I believe that unless we beat the USA and Poland, we have feck all chance of being 3rs seeds for the next campaign. In that case, I'd far rather a lot of new talent introduced supplemented by the core of decent players already in the set up. We would stand more from seeing derrick Williams and Shane Duffy in a game than we would John O'Shea. Lawlor would gain more from being around the set up than Shay given. Jack Byrne might be able to impress pellegrini or a good championship club and progress his career on loan. At the very least, it will give these lads a boost.
Mick did it years ago and after some very painful performances such as Iceland and Lithuania at home, we became a very decent side. I'd love something similar now, because the current bunch (good lads the lot of them) will never amount to much. When we're getting outclassed by a Scottish team where Naismith is the star, then I think it's time to rip it up.
Isn't the real issue that Coleman can be afforded the opportunity to get forward at Everton because his midfield is competitive? One could maybe argue that Coleman getting forward more for Ireland would help his midfield but I don't think it works this way. Our midfield just didn't get a foothold in the game and everyone else's impact suffered as a result.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
I'm with you on Walters although I think his selection in Germany was justified due to Meyler being at RB. He is clearly an O'Neill favourite and it's straight out of the Hartson / Sutton /Heskey preference he used to have. O'Neill very much likes to be able to bash the door down as well as to pick the lock. In Scotland there was no chance of picking the lock, only bashing at the door.
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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
:)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Two and a bit campaigns before we lost under Trap away from home. Three games in to this first campaign.
As I have sad before, I am relying on O'Neill to sort out the huge issues we had at home under the Trap. If not, we're screwed. We MUST beat Poland and Scotland and I believe we can do this.
Not sure what all the negatively is about. Scotland are obviously a team on the up and we were missing our best midfielder and playing an untried combination in the middle. I have never rated Gibson any higher than Whelan. He was of course God's gift when he wasn't been selected by Trap and Whelan was a donkey but frankly I don't see much of a difference between the two except Whelan works harder and puts the foot in more while Gibson is slightly better on the ball. I don't believe it was right to drop Robbie for the game. It was the sort of game he could have excelled in. Interesting he was warming up down by us when Scotland scored and he immediately sprinted up to the bench when it happened - HE at least (and the fans chanting his name at the time) knew he should be on the pitch.
It was always going to be a tight game and Scotland got the goal with a nicely worked move. Our two forwards never looked like scoring. At the game Keogh appeared to do everything asked on his but I see fault was still found with his display. Scratches his head....
We're second in the group. To hell with Bungle's planning for future campaigns. We have to learn to beat our competitors at home and if we do, France beckons.
Any Scots we met were friendly but I understand from YBIG (hearsay from a friend - don't go there myself), many Irish fans in the Scots section were abused and worse. If there's one thing I have learned when supporting a team away from home, you sit on your hands when among away supporters. I believe that anyone who thought it might be otherwise was very naive. Great stadium. Very hard to get taxis though.