I have been a lefty when I was younger, As I grew older and particularly watching the lefties of about the last 15 years, well then you would have to be irrational to have any, faith / hope, in these charlatans !Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Printable View
I have been a lefty when I was younger, As I grew older and particularly watching the lefties of about the last 15 years, well then you would have to be irrational to have any, faith / hope, in these charlatans !Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Evasion goes on!
What do you stand for, let it all out, what is your political viewpoints on everything. Show conviction in your beliefs. Where did all go wrong for leftiie sean and the millions killed in the last 15 by the left?
If you back , say 15 years, you can, see / hear, lefties say stuff that they are now pushing the direct opposite of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
E.G. Lefties were for the economic interests of the working class. Now they push this stuff, "identity politics."
Say, 15 years ago; Many left-wing parties were more skeptical of globalization and free trade agreements, arguing that they led to a "race to the bottom" in terms of wages and worker protections. They often supported national industries and protectionist policies to safeguard domestic jobs.
You are confusing liberal left with communism Sean. I think you are confused to be honest. At a very simple level there is a left/centrist/right approach to two major categories - economic and cultural/societal. Maybe government is a third but i see it as embedded in the two main categories. My very rudimentary and simplified view of politics today is as per the below...
Economic - tax the corporations, wealthy individuals, redistribute or invest in welfare/social programs v. low tax, light regulation, free market, individual capability/hard work gets rewarded
Societal - diversity first, change = progress, identity/group politics v. tradition matters, cautious of change, institutional value/trust.
You can double click on all of these and it gets more nuanced and complex. But communism had, for example, no real interest in diversity or identity politics - outside of defining a working class. In otherwords, Communism is/was economically left and societally ambiguous compared to leftism today. Reducing the discussion to communism is not helpful and the issue calls for more nuance than you are willing or able to entertain.
If the above categorization is close enough for debate's sake, i would consider myself leaning left economically and leaning right societally.
This seems relevant to the discussion: https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-...19365-Sep2025/
While there was an increase in far left violence during Tump term one (and presumably there is this time) it was still far out weighed by far right violence.
https://ccjls.scholasticahq.com/arti...-united-states
this is one of the reports that underpins the above article. Interestingly... if you accept the definitions of far-left and far-right as sound, and at face value that the research approach was valid and not influenced by bias, the numbers behind the numbers are really interesting. In the discussion section, it talks about far-right = high incident count; far-left = higher kills per incident. It also shows that the trend lines, as of 2020, are converging [minus Biden and Trump V2.0 data]. It also claims that incidents for both far-left and far-right were high under Clinton. It also doesnt include 9/11 incident as far-left, despite it appearing to align with the definition of far-left (and it doesnt really attempt to explain its omission).
The discussion section is well worth a read.
For a Country that Champions free speech and has Free speech written into the 1st Amendment of the Constitution, this week is testing it. A talk show host gets suspended for making a comment about Charlie Kirk that the Fat Fuhrer disagreed with and we are one step closer to State Run Tv, ala North Korea.
it'd probably be a good bit better than American late night talk show TV though. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Not even the first late night chat show host to have it happen to him this year, after the news that The Late Show with Stephen Colbert will end in JuneQuote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
No but this one is more blatant, the Chairman of the FCC threatened ABC unless they got rid of Kimmell.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
This is worth listening to, Trump says out loud that late night hosts are not allowed to criticize him
https://x.com/Acyn/status/1968764548195729674
I thought this was a really well written and balanced article.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c78n0e83ye0o
idealistic in todays climate and with current political leadership but true nonetheless.Quote:
The reality is that those who study extremism believe that left-right may not even be the most helpful way to look at the division of this current moment.
"It's better to look at what's causing people to be ungovernable," says Rachel Kleinfeld, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace who specialises in polarised democracies.
"It does take a desire to turn down the temperature… [and] requires people to have a little more courage than they're showing.
"I think it is more useful to focus on how we as a society turn a page and open a new chapter, because this is like a bad marriage. And like a bad marriage, you can only lose by pointing fingers."
Its the childish finger pointing that I find tiresome. Its like a schoolyard he said she said (or whatever their pronoun of choice is) and 2 gangs forming and throwing LoI Ultra type shapes at each other and carries on in to a couple of groups who spend all their time bitching about each other, they even have the Traveller like call-out videos. It is serious that it is so childish at its core with the deliberate inability for the ordinary people to engage in a reasonable and rational manner. One side are a bunch of sycophants and the other has been too preachy prior to causing a cult to form. All rooted in extreme inequity, poverty, growing disparity and unbalanced distribution of wealth over a pretty short space of time in the wealthiest country on the planet.
I assume that posters would agree that the ANTIFA violence is Left-Wing violence !
I assume the posters would agree that the BLM violence is Left-Wing violence !
Yeah? Is that supposed to be some kind of gotcha?
How do you feel about the head of the FCC threatening a broadcaster's licence because a TV comedian made a very mild political joke? The objectionable line seems to have been that MAGA were struggling with the idea that the Kirk shooter was "one of their own". Meanwhile, it was silent when Fox News broadcast a suggestion that homeless people be murdered by lethal injection. The head of the FCC is one of the authors of Project 2025.
Can facts be a gotcha ?Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
In fairness, I suggest that Jimmy Kimmel's employers were just waiting for the right time to get rid of him ( as were Stephen Colbert's employers ) ~ ~ Their viewing figures are shockingly low ~ ~ They had become party political and very unfunny ( opposite of funny in fact ) ~ ~ How come these guys fail to work out that they are supposed to entertain by being funny and entertaining ?Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Let's say the host of the Late Late Show spent every show shilling for Sinn Féin ( just to give an example ) ~ ~ How long realistically could that be allowed to continue ?
The real surprise is ~ ~ How the hell were Colbert and Kimmel allowed to get away with producing such boring dirge for so long ~ ~ And with such low viewing figure.
I suppose now, Jimmy Kimmel can go back to Black-Face and being a public pervert behind a woman on TV ! !
None of that is what I asked about. How do you feel about the government regulator threatening the license of a broadcaster for nakedly political reasons?
Some of it is bunk too, e.g., Colbert was the highest rated show in his time-slot last year.
Isn't it funny how the troll is still dominating the conversation because people keep feeding him?
He lost approx 10-12% viewers over summer months when traditionally TV rating drop due to holidays and longer bright hours. Trump has lost 15-20% on his approval ratings since his inaugurationQuote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
That's almost the crux of the issue though isn't it? How do you change these extreme views if you don't keep trying to engage? It seems that belligerence and ignorance has become the way to "win" any argument. I very rarely engage in debate online because it's been very polarising for a long time, nobody has ever won an argument on the internet after all, but what else is there at this point? Just try and let the "post-truth" era run its course? Maybe a massive rise in infant mortality due to the anti vax crowd, or a full scale world war might start to change things? It's hard to see anything other than a generation of suffering before things might start to moderate in the US at least. Where are the moderate Republican's gone? It's mad to be yearning for someone as balanced and statesman like as George W Bush!Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I guess the flip side of the problem is that any real debate has been sidelined by a vocal minority (this thread is a microcosm of that) - and that's also bad.
There's definitely an extent to which a new generation can react against the defining characteristics of the one that went before - Andrew Doyle (in The New Puritans: How the Religion of Social Justice Captured the Western World) suggests this may be a way that we pull away from the more extreme social justice/witch hunts we're seeing lately.
But that could be a case of addressing the symptom rather than the cause. If a new generation rebels against, say, the idea that men can enter women's sports or that wearing blackface 15 years ago is somehow horribly offensive, the question is whether they'll just find other things horribly offensive and go after them Salem Witch-style, or whether they'll moderate their views overall. They're two very different things of course.
I do increasingly think that social media needs to be burned and destroyed though. And "Oh you can't regulate the internet" - but then I think we saw with Trump's TikTok ban that you can. And yes, I'm sure there's ways and means around those bans, but if banning X, Tumblr, TikTok or whatever ones are best gone after means interaction decreases by a significant amount, then that's got to be a win. And if some influencers or content creators lose their jobs, well in the greater scheme of things, so what?
(And yes, I'm aware of the Simpsons meme on the irony of appearing on social media in order to decry it, so don't bother pointing that out)
How would you say Colberts ratings were against the likes of Jay Leno ( not to mention Johnny Carson )Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
These guys have gone very party political ( maybe to make headlines ) because virtually no one was watching their shows !
Is it Ok for chat show hosts to be party political ?
Surely, if they have gone very biased to one party ( political side ) then it is the job of the regulator, to regulate ~ ~ It is actually very surprising that, these totally biased chat show hosts got away with so much for so long !
And let's be honest about it, their party political musings ain't exactly helping the American Democrat party because virtually no-one is watching these very boring shows ! !
There is virtually no-one watching these shows at any time ~ ~ Which probably explains why they are doing the controversial political stuff i.e. To get mentioned in the media.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neish
When virtually nobody is watching their shows they have to stir up stuff in the media ~ ~ This time Jimmy Kimmel went too far and has correctly being sacked for it. I am sure his bosses are glad to see the back of him. It will be telling that Jimmy Kimmel will almost certainly disappear from public view, with-out a big network to push him. I have seem more talented stones ! ! !
Not at all. It’s bullsh*t. How would you react if they silenced Joe Rogan (I don’t know if that’s a good comparison)?
On the other hand, news media fully has a responsibility to remain unbiased and report facts. That has disappeared in the USA and has crept elsewhere.
Anyway, back on point, with the exception of news media, anyone can say whatever the fck they want without breaking the law. Whether it’s funny or not is for individuals/viewers to decide. Not some bullsh*t regulator. I could take or leave Kimmel, I like Fallon and despised Colbert. But - back to principles - give me the smart and irreverent humour of someone like Ricky Gervais any day of the week and keep letting him do his thing.
Surely, there is nothing stopping Jimmy Kimmel doing his own podcast ?Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Let's see how Jimmy Kimmel gets on without a big network behind him ? !
Interestingly, it was Barack Obama that took a law off the books requiring media ( I assume national media ) to Not mislead the American People. Strange things can come from strange places in American Politics ~ ~ American Politics is very dark behind the scenes, regardless of the Soap-Opera played front of house !
The whole point of the Kimmell thing is not whether hes good or bad, whether you like him or not. Its that Trump has said, that these TV stations cant keep their license to operate if they allow hosts to criticize him. I posted the recording of it on previous page, so this is not just some theory. It's the leader of the country strong arming the media.
I read something last night that Disney, who own ABC are trying to buy Fubo TV and need the Trump admistration to approve the deal because of anti competition laws etc, and that's why they caved so quickly on Kimmell.
You could take Lefties seriously on this sort of thing, if they had not been totally silent on people that they did not like getting sacked / de-platformed etc etc etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Lefties were more that happy to silence anyone that disagreed with them.
If Jimmy Kimmel was pulling in the viewers by being entertaining and funny, then he wouldn't have been doing boring political stuff in the first place.
Kimmel was only doing this stuff because he didn't have the talent to do anything else.
You'd always kind of assume that if appointing a head of a law enforcement agency that you'd opt for somone with a background in law enforcement not a social media podcaster like Patel. It'd be like me being appointed as garda commissioner cause I'm a Dundalk fan and so was the Minister of Justice. Or a head of a key aspect of a department of defence like the pentagon being run by news presenter who then fires a bunch of military people, makes unilateral decisions on foreign policy without a president's or givernment's knowledge eg Ukraine support, has to do an about turn when its reported and next up journalists' access is revoked. If i thought it was possible that there would be a military coup in the US that would overthrow government it would be Popgun Pete. Donald acts on advice of who the last person he spoke to and soundbites from his preferred soap outlets. Patel is a lackey, Hegseth is his own person, kows what he wants and will keep trying.
You're really determined to make no distinction between government action and public opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
And Leftie politician's words and actions ? !Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Or establishment's words and actions ? !
A recent example of the Irish establishment in action ~ Patrick Kielty said there was free speech on rte which is laughable re; Mass immigration / Trans lunacy and plenty more ~ The reality is you will get little or no coverage on Rte if you do not support the Irish establishments ( political / general ) agenda.
Which MAGA in the US! What you accuse RTE of is similar to main stream US media no? Only covering onesided agenda. Or does it not count when its the agenda you agree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
This is part of the crux with what is happening in the US, if check and balances are eroded, judiciary and government are not seperated, journalists excluded if they dont follow the party line, well what happens when there is a change of government in the future, possibly 3 years time. Suddenly the leftie communists are able to exploit the mechanisms put in place by their opposition, except they will have the advantage of not having to use time to build a system to suit authoritarian rule. It will be there from day dot allowing them 4 years of solidifying control in to permanent rule. Thanks very much MAGA!
Do you think that the Left has contributed to where America ( and Western Countries ) is today ?
Do you ever not answer a question with a question?
Of course the left has contributed to where things are today. How far back do you want to go and on what, French Revolution, Bolsheviks, universal suffarage, civil rights, social inclusion, workers rights, free education (if I say universal healthcare no doubt that will be the buzz focus of ire).
Be more specific, what is it specifically that 'the left' has done to get us where we are today, how has the right made a contribution? What western countries? What is the left or right in your view. A person can be conservative and agree that a civil rights act is a good thing or not, like Charlie Kirk albeit he flip flopped.
Next question....
With regard to America, why did the Democrats come up with such a bad candidate as Hillary Clinton after Obama ~ Plainly the American people just did not trust her, and they were probably correct on that. Hillary wasn't able to convince them ( or fool them ) like many other dodgy politicians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
The Democrats haven't had a decent candidate since Obama ( and was he actually all that good in his second term anyway ? )
The Democrats are pretty useless now, and seem to have a talent of coming down on the wrong side of even 80 / 20 issues ! !
Maybe, if the Democrats actually got their act together ( apparently they can't ) then, that would be a good thing !
You can't, and you shouldn't. People have studied this, the current glut of conspiracy theorists and pig-headed idiots simply cannot be brought around, it just doesn't work. So you go with the only solution that has ever actually worked on forums, and other communities, you don't feed the trolls; you take the advice of your mammy, you ignore the bully, you walk away.Quote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
And it has to be said, at this point it's the fault of the people responding, because this is hardly a new idea, it's not something they haven't heard before. They can't learn either. They just can't resist feeding their own egos, trying to "win". All they need to do is converse with the normal people, and ignore the cretins. It's really as simple as that.
And none of them will do this. Even if they stop for a day, a week, they'll start again, or another idiot will come along and engage. It's pathetic to watch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Debate or the bait?Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Im learning from the 'engagement'. Its not an ego thing, or a trying to change the unchangable - its more an experiment, a curiosity, probitive, seeing how things can be pushed. Isnt it pathetic to watch the pathetic or is it a curiosity in itself. They say attack the post not the poster, so calling people idiots, hardly an example to set dahamsta. You are frustrated obiously, you can look away too! You also have now been trolled in to a response.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
In light of the terrible assassination of Charlie Kirk ~ It is clear that a lot of Lefties are having a crisis with the way the Left has been carrying on !
I see that Charlie Kirk's widow has forgiven the killer of her husband !
I hope for the best for the Lefties, but I am not so sure that everybody else will be as forgiving as Charlie Kirk's widow !
A mad right wing dirtbag (his views were absolutely abhorrent and the world is a better place without him) was shot by an even madder right wing lunatic- where does the left come into this at all? Did some of them say hurty words or something? Obviously murder is wrong but there is no compulsion to pretend the guy was anything other than completely awful. No more that I'd pretend Horst Wessel was some kind of hero, and for the exact same reasons.
The would be Trump assassins were right wingers too. There isn't really a both sides here, the vast, vast majority of political violence in the US has come from the right.
But the increasingly authoritarian and evil administration doesn't care about truth and will use any excuse to feed their agenda.
We can only hope they are stopped before they do too much damage to their country and the wider world.