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don't think he featured in too many German squads during his time at celtic.Quote:
Originally Posted by DCWA
we can take players "boyhood dreams" with a big pinch of salt
yes, many a scottish international team have been filled with celtic players, romping away with scottish leagues, that have performed dreadfully for over 20 years nowQuote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
Lads its not an up and coming kid we are talking about here. Duffy can't get a game in the premiership, I doubt there is a queue of clubs lining up for him. He'll do a year at Celtic and either love it and want to stay or he probably find a Championship club. This is not going to ruin his career or anything of the sort.
He needs to be playing anyway ! He could be a fella that loses match fitness when not playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Maybe he is having too much Social Life where he is !
He featured in every Germany squad in his first season at Celtic playing 4 times. The caps dried up then not because he played for Celtic rather because he got a series of horrible injuries and retired aged 30Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Anyway there are so much more examples of international careers of players playing for nations as good as or better than ourselves not being ruined.
Even thinking only of European defenders and only of recently enough you have Boyata (Belgium) Majstorovic, Lustig (Sweden) Sviatchenko (Denmark) Loovens (Holland)
Year long loan to Celtic completed according to the RTÉ News.
It Could Work. Especially for a Year ! And the Year thats in it ( Possibly )Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Official - http://www.celticfc.net/news/18496
Most likely there was no genuine Premier League interest in him when it came down to it, he was maybe just on a few clubs long lists. I could definitely see him staying in Scotland longer than a year also, or maybe moving to the Championship in a year's time, there isn't much of a market in the EPL for 29/30 year olds playing in Scotland.
You can certainly argue that he's better off playing some kind of football with Celtic, regardless of the lower level given that they won't be playing Champions League, than not playing at all for Brighton, which seemed likely if he stayed there. But this is probably a sign that, in the next year or two, we will need to be phasing him out and probably bringing Dara O'Shea into the first team in his place, particularly as we are also likely to be evolving our gameplan away from Duffy's more traditional playing style.
Well it would obviously suit Brighton to loan him to Celtic, rather than relegation rivals like West Brom, West Ham, etc. so I wouldn't doubt that the interest was genuine/strong. Given that Celtic really wanted him, Duffy really wanted to go there and it was the best option for Brighton, there was only going to be one outcome. Agree that he'll either stay with Celtic or end up in the Championship though, possibly even with Brighton again.
He could’ve went to West Ham. That interest was genuine and then some. They had significant talks with both player and Brighton. Personally I don’t think West Ham is a particularly appealing option for anyone atm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Shane wanted this move and has pushed for it, more so arguably at the beginning than Celtic I believe who actually nearly made a mess of it with Brighton hence it taking so long to go through.
I actually think this is a really good move even if it's a drop in standard. The top half generally give good games. There are still tough games up there and I reckon he may score some goals too. Until such time as one team pulls clear each game up there is critical.
Duffy could be very good for Celtic. He has had a few years under his belt in the Premier League. These are the standards Celtic should be aiming for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Lets hope it works out for everybody.
It's certainly a great move for Celtic, they need a more aggressive centre back and his relative weakness on the ball won't be exposed by most Scottish clubs as they defend so deep against Celtic when not in possession. He'll be able to stroll out from defence at his ease with nobody putting pressure on possession. But the step up in standard that we're going to need him to deal with, especially if we come through the playoffs and play at the finals next summer, is going to be huge.
Duffy playing the ball out always makes me nervous (despite it being a rarity for him). After each touch, he always looks like hes imminently going to need to lunge to win it back.
Random thoughts. Carry on.
I know what you mean. I used to get the same nervous feeling when the ball was passed back under pressure to Shay Given.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
But Duffy has become a more assured footballer in the last couple of seasons I think
Debut, goal and a MOTM performance from Duffy today. That said, it was against Ross County.
Some step down from the Premier League...
He'd nearly be as well playing training matches with Brighton reserves to be honest.
I'm glad he's not, all the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Hopefully the Glasgow derbies will maybe help keep him sharp, might be one or two decent games against Hibs or Aberdeen but the rest of the division looks absolutely terrible this season, even by the relatively low standards usually set by the SPL.
Europa League group stage qualification is essential for him to have any run of decent games, it's hard to describe just how bad the likes of Ross County are compared to what he'll be facing playing for Ireland.
Look, he's gone to the club he loves, it means a lot to him given his father's passing too, and he'll play with a smile on his face for a year. Yeah, it's obviously a lower standard but he's a Premier League standard defender - he's not going to turn to **** because he's not coming up against Raheem Sterling or Andy Carroll every week.
That's not necessarily correct. Have you ever played against a poor tennis player, by the end of the game you are as bad as they are. Top players need to play against top players to stay at the topQuote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I was bad when the match started !Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
While this is undeniable, I'm yet to see anybody respond to the case that plenty of players continued to have good international careers despite playing for Celtic. Lustig is the one I keep mentioning as I think he's a good comparison to Duffy, but DCWA had a host of others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Lustig joined Celtic in 2011. People keep mentioning Larsson, too; he left Celtic in 2004. This really is irrelevant. The Scottish top flight has deteriorated substantially in quality over the past 10-15 years. This is the pertinent issue. If it were a goalkeeper, striker or midfielder we were talking about it wouldn't be quite so bad, but playing as a central defender against, at best, League One standard opposition forwards, for a side that will be utterly dominant in almost every match they play, cannot possibly keep Duffy as sharp as one would hope for him to be prepared for the quality of attacks seen at international level.
One interesting aspect is that Lennon has suggested a back three will be his preferred defensive formation going forward, of which Duffy was playing on the right yesterday - a formation it's been suggested to which Duffy is unsuited.
Lustig played with Celtic until last year though. Surely the step up from the SPL to international level was still a significant one during his Celtic career, an SPL without Rangers for a large chunk of it too. Yet he was still a solid performer for his country, accumulating loads of caps and playing in major tournaments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
And that's a guy who had only played in the Scandinavian leagues previously, unlike Duffy who has gained a lot of experience at an elite level.
As a more recent example, Rangers' Helander started Sweden's last match against Portugal. As did the Celtic defender Ajer for Norway. They both lost, but whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
I understand your point but it doesn't really negate the main thrust of my argument. A move to Celtic really doesn't challenge him or improve him as a player.
I still expect Duffy to start for Ireland for the foreseeable future. As he should.
It's not just who he plays against twice a week, but who he trains with every day. Comparing the two, the lower reaches of Celtic and Brighton's squads are much of a muchness I think, but I'd fancy the elite players in Brighton are better than their Celtic counterparts. He'll probably get more game time in Scotland, so his match fitness will be high, but he won't be challenged by the same quality of player. Is that better or worse? At 28 he's enterered his peak already. How much development is left ahead, and how much of his game will depend on constant repetition of what he already knows - positioning and awareness, say?
On one hand, he’s gonna get game time in a footballing team. Haven’t watched Celtic lately but I imagine considering their standing in the Scotland that their fans except them to play football.
Maybe it’ll be a year where he’s encouraged to play football and that’ll help him.
Obviously could go the other way too, plenty of people regress playing in Scotland...
Elated yes I’ve thought that too. Playing in a league where his team will be expected to spend plenty of time in possession should be good for the development of his possession game.
He’ll never be a Van Dijk on the ball but hopefully he will be more used to a possession game as a result of this move, and also have better match fitness/confidence when lining out for us in the playoffs.
Ajer actually won his last match for Norway but agree that's pretty much irrelevant, the fact that they're still playing at a decent level internationally is closer to my point, but I accept you understand that. And I certainly understand the point of view that playing at a lower level could damage his game, I just think it's one of many factors and there are similar examples that make it less of a concern, for me anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
The issue with Duffy getting plenty of time on the ball is the way opposition defences set up when playing against Celtic in Scotland. At least 8 and possibly as many as 10 of the 11 teams Celtic play will consistently set up with 10 or 11 men behind the ball when not in possession in the hope of nicking a goal on the break, scraping a 0-0, or even just keeping the score down.
So there's no problem giving Duffy the ball in that situation in or near his own penalty area, because there won't be an opposition player within 30 yards of him most of the time and any that are will be too busy rushing back into a defensive position after losing possession to have any interest in approaching him unless he ventures over half way.
So, in terms of Ireland, that's great practice for playing Andorra or Gibraltar, but fairly useless preparation for playing the likes Slovakia or Bosnia.
Is that an assumption or based on observation? Only asking because even Hamilton played a very capable counter-attacking game at Parkhead, which really tested Celtic's defence and I'd say most of the better teams in Scotland do actually have a good go at the top two, especially at home, and often have a dedicated press on CBs. I watch Celtic a fair bit and their CBs do have to work hard but of course they also get opportunity to attack and develop play more than you'd get in EPL. And like a goalkeeper, it's easy to look good if you're constantly defending. Being good when you're only needed a few times a game requires something different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
I'm OK with Duffy's move really, for same reeasons as Delorean and DCWA.
Observation. I watch a lot of Scottish football!
By all means teams will counter attack from deep, that and set pieces are the only way for them to get at the two Glasgow teams really. What you see though is that, when they lose the ball, there's little sense of a high press or any great effort to move up on Celtic into the opposition half of the field. The attitude always seems to be - right, we've lost possession, so we need to get back into our defensive shape and our own half of the pitch as quick as we can now. This allows the likes of Ajer and Jullien to move the ball out from the back like they're Sergio Ramos, because there isn't an opposition player near them.
Breen says this move is a heap of ****e, Lennon gets huffy.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2020...-on-ignorance/
I have to say, I'm with Breen on this one. It's probably better for Duffy than not playing at all, but that's damning it with faint praise.
I have to say it has made me laugh how defensive the Scottish media have gotten this week over a few throwaway comments by Gary Breen on Off The Ball. There really is a delusion in Scotland that the SPL is of a far higher standard than it is, they think the big two are top half Premier League standard and the rest of the league is like the English Championship and there's no telling them otherwise. At the same time they're mystified as to how their national team hasn't qualified for anything for nearly a quarter of a century and they can't see any link between the two things.
Breen is right of course, if you play at a lower level there's always a strong chance that it will negatively affect your game. Lennon must know this deep down as well but he can't exactly come out and say it. But he'll know from his transfer dealings that he's shopping in the bargain aisle most of the time, it's EPL reserves and unknown punts from around Europe that are being brought in, even him being the manager at Celtic tells its own story.
I'd say you're a thorn in their side over there, Eirambler. :)
Could reach double figures
Look at the state of that defending..Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
No worse than Bulgaria's the other week, to be fair. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954