Printable View
"Won't somebody think of the children"........Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Real Rover
Sense of perspective required.
As stated above ths isn't a criminal issue and is nothing to do with "freedom", so you can leave your high horse in the stable for the minute.
I know its not about freedom, but the quote is relevant never the less.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Sweet Jesus.... :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Da Real Rover
Talk about losing the run of yourself.
Bohs are able to deny entry to whoever they want to their own establishment. So long as they aren't discriminating on grounds that they are clearly prohibited from doing so (e.g. gender, race, disability, sexuality etc) then they ahev strong groudns for doing so.
As for knowing drug dealers - there is a world of difference between knowing them, and being there by their side of an evening when they go out doing their business. The latter would probably make you an accessory. This guy was goign to football games with football hooligans. That isn't the same as saying 'how're ya' to them in the street or sharing a pint with them after work one evening.
Given that he lives within a stone's throw :o of Dalyer, and his employment is given as "hospital administrator" would it be stretchin' it to think he's employed by the Mater Hospital?
If so, he's a bit late calling on a former Hospital Administrator of the Mater to appeal on his behalf as he resigned as Taoiseach last week.
Well done to Bohs for giving him the red card. And I'm fairly sure James Connolly and any other apostle of socialism who has been invoked in defence of this individual's rights are turning in their graves at the way their ideals have been twisted in the name of straight forward thuggery.
If there was evidence of straight forward thuggery I doubt there'd even be a thread, unless you have some light to throw on the subject?Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTown
When I was a kid, my friend stole a Kinder egg from a shop. Not only that, but when I was in university, another friend slept with a girl although he already had a girlfriend.
I`m still associating with both.
Time to chop my own balls off it seems.
Some of you people genuinely sicken me. Guilty by association should never be used in any walk of life, and if you disagree with that then I think you're a moron at best.
And to whoever it was that was saying* that hooliganism keeps families away from supporting LoI clubs, well I can only assume you don't go to LoI games yourself given how ridiculous that remark is
* Sorry I forgot your name, there's just so much nonsense from so many people you've all kinda blurred into one right wing moron (oddly enough you all probably have similiar views on guilty by association as many stereotypical hooligans do)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Please accept my apologies I never knew that all EL grounds are filled every week with families like GAA grounds. Im obviously going to the wrong games... and on that basis why are so many clubs struggling to survive if they're playing to full houses every week:rolleyes:
He never said anything remotely similar to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenforever
He's arguing your point that hooliganism is a reason for low crowds. There are many reasons for low crowds, mainly the relative crapness of the football, the relative crapness of the surroundings, and the attitude of Irish people to eL, but I'd doubt if you could find 5 people who said the reason they didn't go to eL games was the fear of hooliganism.
What Joey said. Families don't come because of hooligans (quite a few do at Limerick mind), they don't come because the parents support Man Utd, Celtic, etc. and couldn't give a toss about LoI. Most non-LoI supporters barely think we have any fans, let alone hooligansQuote:
Originally Posted by Greenforever
Like Mr. Kelehan's mates, your action is a bit extreme Osar....too many Samaurai movies p'haps? Lectures in tolerance and civil liberties are really spot on as long as you've been an innocent bystander at one of these matches whose had to "endure" the fall out from Mr. Kelehan's associates.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Will you get off the soap box Jebus? This guy is STILL getting his day in court, is he not, to have the substantive issue tested by a judge? I'm happy to let the Judge decide. Luckily for most it's the way a democracy works, where a person who perceives society has done him / her wrong gets to test it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
And not everyone will be happy with the outcome, but at least nobody gets hurt, unlike, if you happen to bump into the Associates of innocents:rolleyes: and they're in bad form.
Yes because he lives in Japan he can't possible know what it's like to be around violence. Much like someone living in Galway apparantly can't get that he's not talking about being around the BSC at allQuote:
Originally Posted by MyTown
Nope, not until everyone who disagrees with me on anything admits they're an idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTown
I don't care if the judge overturns this, Bohs as a club should never have imposed the ban in the first place, that's what I'm arguing against
Well, all I can say to the bloke is. If you lay with dogs-you get fleas!
You were at a game where there was violence? Be careful or you'll be the next to be banned.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTown
Unfortunately you haven't blurred into one idealistic moron, you're right out on your own on that front.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
I find your general and frequent insults to people who disagree with your "defender of civil liberties" approach tiresome and for someone who clearly has a modicum of intelligence, beneath you. You are in many ways typical of a lot of libertarians, absolutely intolerant of those who don't share your views.
Why don't you try getting your point across without grandstanding, hyperbole, insulting people or other similar keyboard warrior-esque behaviour?
Ah but would you still be a langerQuote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Both sides of the coin need their loudmouths to get an opinion across, we then leave it to the more reasoned to actually debate the matter, I find it works better that way. Plus I'm not really trying to change anyone's opinions as I generally don't think it's possible for someone to do so, or at least that's the impression I've formed from internet forums and newspaper letter's sections. I find discussions these days goes something like, I give an opinion, someone gives their opposite opinion, I repeat my opinion, they do theirs, and we go around like that for approx. 3-5 days before everyone gets bored and we both end up with an infraction. Nope, as with everyone posting on forums or on blogs, I think my opinion is all important and needs to be published online for all to read, it's one of the major positive/negatives of the age of the internet.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
I give you section a of the evidence of what being quite a reasoned poster like Osarusan gets you in online debates with people like thisQuote:
Originally Posted by passerrby
I cant believe that people dont think families/general public would decide not to go to a game if they thought there were hooligans/unsavoury types at games already?
There is no way any parent would bring kids to a game if they thought there was even the slightest chance something could happen.
The Linfield fan a few weeks ago at the Pats game. 3000+ at the game and nothing happened except for that incident, which was completely blown out of proportion. Are you seriously suggesting that people wouldn't think twice about attending a game, even based solely on that incident?
There is no way on earth that most parents would want their kids to witness that (3000+ people were completely unaware of it inside the ground i might add), hear about that or be within one mile of that. People simply do not want to anything to do with it. And to dismiss that fact is brain dead.
If people know there is a hooligan presence (they dont even have to be doing anything, its simply potential for something to happen) in any ground on a regular basis they will not attend games. Its a bit lame to say 'they wouldn't come anyway', 'they are only interested in Sky Sports', 'they are just not interested in going to LOI games' .... that fact is that most clubs would cut of their right arms to double the average attendance for a few years.
If this hoolie thing is preventing the attendance from growing (even without incident) then its an issue and clubs should treat it as a crisis. If something is cutting off a life line to revenue then you have to deal with it like any other organisation would deal with it. To think that clubs couldn't, wouldn't or shouldn't do anything about it is off the wall stuff. Trying to suggest that clubs are infringing on peoples rights when the same people are strangling a club of revenue is a crazy illogical argument. You can continue to argue it but there is no way on earth it will change anything. Infact if it did then the said club is doomed anyway and you might as well just leave hoolies have a free for all.
There is a bigger picture to all of this. The league needs to move on, attract more crowds and build decent regular loyal fanbase. Hoolies dont and will never out number the potential for that to happen. While it is there hoolies will never be cast a second thought, it just not financially viable to entertain them.
Just because clubs, in recent years haven't been getting crowds, that no good enough a reason to not strive to get them. Hoolies will not help that happen so they and their 'human rights' should not even be considered.
the scum deserve all they get i have a small daughter but wouldnt bring her near a game when bohs or rovers are in town, so yes it does efeect kids and families the scumbags need to be routed out in each club and get banned from all games but for this to work we need a more integrated intelligence network for stewards and guards
Seriously, how are you not catching on to what we're saying? We're saying that Hooligans are in no way the main reason why families don't attend LoI, they may be 5% of the reason, but they in no way warrant clubs having crisis talks about them. Might I add that the LoI is relatively hooligan free while we're at it, and also that fathers seem to have no issue with bringing their kids to Glasgow, Manchester, Liverpool, London, or places that actual have quite a lot of hooligan history. You're blowing this completely out of proportion in a way that is reminiscent of George W.'s pre-war fear mongoring, it's really that bad A Face.
Plus we're talking about the 'human rights' of a Bohs supporter who has never participated in hooligan activity, not someone who is an active member of the BSC, so don't try and blur those lines and pretend we are advocating some form of Hooligan Relief program
Class.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTown
This thread is like a steady progression to the eventual realisation that this Bohs fan is a member of the BSC and had partaken in the odd act act of genocide, not to mention him scareing the kiddys away.
This man is innocent, dont forget that, so please dont drag James Connolly into it. He has committed as much thuggery as yourself.
And as for A faces comment on build decent regular loyal fanbase.
What would you define as decent?
I'd say the farest way of letting people into our grounds is to get their level of education, employment, where they live, criminal record, Assosciates of course, at the gate. When this is done the steward will compile his file and sanction entry into the ground. That way we can have a more decent type of fan. Try and keep the great unwashed out. Mein Fuhrer.
I think its far more than 5%. And i'm saying its the image of the league clubs as being a fun family-orientated attraction in the local community of the club (and i'm not saying a totally clean clinical game. I'm saying so anyone and everyone can come along) so a wide section of the public will attend.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Genocide, calm down there fella. I agree with scaring the kiddys away ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Real Rover
For an eircom League club .... 20,000Quote:
And as for A faces comment on build decent regular loyal fanbase. What would you define as decent?
What in gods name are you trying to say? Can you rephrase that?Quote:
I'd say the farest way of letting people into our grounds is to get their level of education, employment, where they live, criminal record, Assosciates of course, at the gate. When this is done the steward will compile his file and sanction entry into the ground. That way we can have a more decent type of fan. Try and keep the great unwashed out. Mein Fuhrer.
Just to go back over a few of your points on this page alone. Why are there kids at Celtic v Rangers, Spurs v Arsenal, Chelsea v West Ham, Hibs v Hearts, Liverpool v Man Utd, Wednesday v Sheff Utd, and many, many more games across the sea so? For that matter why do any of us leave our house during the day, what with the threat of physical violence in society today?Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
Yes, people have got bigger worries in life and aren't as easily scared off as you seem to beQuote:
Originally Posted by A face
I think you're wrong, but as there is no way of either of us proving what percentage of the human psyche lives in fear of hooligans we may as well move onQuote:
Originally Posted by A face
They can cut their arms off all they want, still won't change the fact that the majority of football supporters in this country don't come to LoI games because they think the standard is rubbish and they'd rather watch Man UtdQuote:
Originally Posted by A face
FREEDOM!!Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
Yes but by the stage eL clubs have a hardcore of 20,000 loyal supporters we'll all either be living on mars playing powerball (a hybrid of football and foxy boxing), be robots, or be living under the sea living in fear of hooligan dolphins coming around to slap the seaweed taste out of our children's mouths during waterball gamesQuote:
Originally Posted by A face
and AFAIK largely inactive on the hoolie front. Most of the Bohs hooligan incidents in the last couple of years have been courtesy of the BSS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
Ok, you have a point. You win, how wrong i was.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Very...Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
For some reason I must have misinterpreted your previous post?
So ban the hooligans, not their mates and steward and police the games properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
Sense at last!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
I regularly bring my step kids and nephew to Dalymount and am looking forward to bringing my son as soon as he's 3 or 4. the only game I won't bring them to is Rovers "Just in Case" and even at that there is seldom trouble. The only real Hoolie activity I've witnessed in recent years was when Rovers were renting Dalier and a group of about 7 or 8 kids attacked the no10 bus that I and several other bohs fans were on returning from Belfield after drawing 0-0 with UCD about 3 years ago. and the infamous time that rovers got in the exit gate beside the Jodi and that was all over in seconds
[QUOTE=Da Real Rover;941404]
Class.This man is innocent, dont forget that, so please dont drag James Connolly into it. [QUOTE]
Wasn't it yourself who brought JC into it originally?
Ah yes DRR, I keep forgetting you're posting from the last bastion of true socialism in Europe where the road leading into town from Galway is called the Ray McSharry road :eek: and where the locals get to choose between Declan Bree, Sean McManus and Jimmy Devins. Out of that lot, I'd definitely be giving the innocent Bohs supporter my No. 1 if he was on the ticket.
[QUOTE=Da Real Rover;941404]He has committed as much thuggery as yourself.[QUOTE]
:rolleyes:That's what I love about you guys - you're so on top of the facts all the time.
If you have proof this guy did something wrong, perhaps you should provide it to Bohs and then he can be banned for that, not who he "associates" with.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTown
Arguing over percentages is nonsensical. All I can say is that anyone I've mentioned going to football matches to has not gone because they can't be arsed, have 'better things to do' on Fridays, think the standard is rubbish, think the grounds are rubbish, would rather watch football on TV, .... Never has potential violence been mentioned, ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
There is some total ****** being talked on this thread.
Hoolaganism may contriubute to people not wanting to go to games. It is not the only reason by any stretch, or even a major root cause. Otherwise the Brandy would be filled every week because we don't have a problem.
Greenforever, and Aface, you have completely twisted what other people are saying on several occassions. Everyone accepts that hooliganism can cause a problem.
No one has said anything remotely like that. But the scale of the problem is not such that a significant number of people would be turned away, surely?Quote:
I cant believe that people dont think families/general public would decide not to go to a game if they thought there were hooligans/unsavoury types at games already?
Bohs can ban your man if they want, but he has his right to an appeal, which he is getting. The pub analogy is a good one here. If you're wearing the wrong shoes then Bohs or any other club which owns their stadium should have the right to tell you to **** off. I can do it at my house, the bouncers can do it at the bars, Bohs can do it at Dalymount. It's what private property is all about. You hold the the power to refuse others admittance/enjoyment of your property.
There is no real discussion here.
Exactly. People just support their English teams or Scots teams. I've never encountered a single person who has told me that his reason for not going to a LoI match was hooliganism or violence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Schumi
It's a simple as this, imagine turning up at the gate about to pay your entry into the ground when you are told that you are not allowed in because you know someone or because of the group of friends you have? if this man is guilty of anything the proof will be there and we can all stand fully behind bohs decision, but there should not be any guilt be association and for a man who's been supporting his club for longer than most of the posters here have been supporting theirs, it is sad to see him being treated so badly by the club he loves
Quote:
Originally Posted by celticV3
It doesn't matter. In Irish law he has no 'right' to expect to be admitted to private property.
I assume that Bohs have acted properly and with due care and attention to their "laws", that after an investigation, they found this person deserved the sanction.
Unless I hear other evidence, I assume that Bohs have acted appropriately.
Bohs are answerable to the club members. If the club members have any questions about this case then they can take it up with the Board.
It turns out the guy in question is a former bar man in Dalymount and judging by the comments on thebohs.com is an upstanding supporter who's never caused trouble
This is incredibly worrying as I've heard of a few other dubious bannings (not least young Conor, a lad who's a few cans short of a sixpack and about as dangerous as a rubber knife) whilst at least 2 of the Derry 4 have been seen at games recently
I cant believe the tripe on this thread why cant we all assume (in light of the fact that we dont know anything about this case )that bohs took this dicision for good reasons and not just because a guy happened to be on the same flight as a bunch of idiots.let this man have his day in court and let jebus get on with cutting of his brains p.s dont make a balls of it.