OK all is forgiven :pQuote:
Originally Posted by wws
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OK all is forgiven :pQuote:
Originally Posted by wws
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamcarr
Maybe this is not true then because they say Cork refused Wolves not Roy.
http://www.eleven-a-side.com/acrosst...p?newsid=26029
Cork City's Roy O'Donovan named eircom/ Soccer Writers Association Player of the Month for NovemberQuote:
Originally Posted by Irish_Praha
The 21 year old also won the award in November last year, when he finished the season in terrific form.
O'Donovan was prolific for the Leesiders in the final weeks of the campaign after being switched to centre forward from midfield. He ended the campaign with eleven league goals, four of those coming in November.
The former Coventry youth scored twice in the 4-1 win over Waterford before grabbing the only goal of the game in victories over St Patrick's Athletic at Richmond Park, and Shelbourne at Turner's Cross. He also impressed when starting up front for the Irish 'B' side in their drawn game with Scotland.
The Cork native was actually better known as a forward player during his time in England, but acknowledges that he had to be patient when he returned to Ireland given the quality of strikers that were at Cork.
"When I came back first, I just wanted to get my foot in the door and make a career for myself out of the game. At that time, I was behind Kevin Doyle, John O'Flynn, Neale Fenn and George O'Callaghan in the forward positions. The best option was to play on the right wing, but after 18 months the chance came to go back up front again, " said O'Donovan.
It was a move brought about my circumstances which almost pushed Cork into the league title frame. They had to settle for a disappointing fourth place position, but O'Donovan prefers not to dwell on the past and is looking ahead to the future with new investment helping out chairman Brian Lennox.
"It's a shame the season ended when it did because we were close to the shakeup at the end and we were just hitting form at the right time," he says.
Of course, O'Donovan himself could be a valuable asset for Cork with suitors from cross channel interested in bringing him back across the water. Wolves have been the most high profile side linked with his services, while Southend United were reported to have made a bid.
However, the player himself says that if he is to move it will have to be a fair deal for Cork. And he also believes that clubs should have seen enough of him already to be confident in making a bid, rather than needing to invite him over for a trial as has been suggested.
"I think I'm above that. If people want to see me play, they can come and see me play for Cork. They've had plenty of chances. I've played in 10 European games, around 10 under 21 games and I've got a 'B' cap in addition to playing around 80 games for Cork City. Maybe on trial, they might want to see me and get to know me as a person for a few days rather than seeing me as a footballer because there have been plenty of opportunities for that." "I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I have to be fair to the club. If people want me, then they're going to have to make a bid that's fair to everybody," said O'Donovan.
Happy now??
Yeah fair play to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by adamcarr
But what i meant was maybe the whole article I posted a link to was not true because it falsely reported that Cork refused Wolves not O'Donovan himself.
However, what you have posted above would explain why they think a trial with Celtic would also be rejected.
The only problem with him saying they can come and see him play at Cork is that there are no games at the moment and the transfer window closes in two and a half weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish_Praha
It was City who rejected a trial from Wolves which O'Donovan was happy to hear. City turned down a €250,000 bid from Southend aswell and Roy said he wouldnt have gone given the choice. I have a feeling that he will sign a new contract if offered one. His current one runs out in 8 months time.
Nobody said that. The fact is that the standard of football and the standard of coaching is better in the English Championship than it would be in the EL. Players like Doyle and Ward will only reach the potential that they have by moving to England. At the present the Eircom League is not good enough for a number of players to reach their full potential.Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
So what you are saying is that you think Doyle had reached his peak before he left Cork, at the age of 20/21?:D Doyle is receiving much better coaching than what he received at Cork. There is no chance that he would be as good as he is now without making the move.Quote:
someone even went on to suggest doyle had been "developed" in his short time at reading (dOYLE IS A MATURE PLAYER - with wide experience - is game will evolve but the implication being that there was 70,000 to 5 million worth of "development" is preposterous and yes - insulting to the quality of football he faced here)
he's not some raw talent who was polished off by the english - he was a developed player in his own right
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by cavan_fan
He was voted Championship player of the year last year. He never achieved that in Ireland. He's already scored more goals for Reading than he did at Cork, playing less games at Reading.Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
Quiet probably true but theres also the other side of the coin...Quote:
Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge
Roy O'Donovan: Released by Coventry. Since then has become regular U21 & now B International.
Joe Gamble: Reading loaned him to Barnet in the Conference, then released him. Now a B International & thought to be best midfielder in the league by many.
I only mention players from my own club as more familiar with them but could this mean eL coaching actually improving players? Why did the Championship clubs fail to recognise their talent? :confused:
Is this the 'Kevin Doyle Effect'? why are so many eL players suddenly being seriously considered for moves to England and Scotland? Is it simply because these players may be cheaper than similar players in the lower leagues in England? If you look at the summer transfers there really wasn't much cash changing hands beyond the big clubs so I'm thinking that clubs are looking for bargains. Of course Kevin Doyle and Shane Long are good adverts for buying Irish.
Hooperatzi - As I said, we discuss almost every overseas transfer of Irish players on this forum. The reason it's only oversea's players is because transfer from EL to EL club are obviously for the EL forum.
Obviously not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooperatzi
And would you like to point me in the direction of a post claiming he's now good enough for Ireland since his move to Wolves?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooperatzi
It may be the international forum but trust me, every transfer is discussed here whether they have a chance of playing for Ireland or not. Most of us just like to see Irish players do well. For example, here's a thread on someone that obviously won't play for Ireland again:
http://www.foot.ie/showthread.php?t=36916
Just because there's a thread on Ward here doesn't mean we now think he's good enough to play for Ireland. It doesn't matter if Ward moved from Bohs, Real Madrid or Accrington Stanley...this transfer still would have been discussed on this forum just because the player is Irish.
Any Ireland fan should know who Ward is and I seriously doubt there's any regular poster on here that doesn't know who he was last week.
I didnt. never heard of him.
and I regularly check the international forum.(....to keep up with all the celtic news;) )
I think its a bit sad that irish players have to go abroad to get any recognition. its sadder that people drag out things like better standard of coaching(..I mean does anyone actually know feck all about the standard of coaching at championship clubs??...) to justify their own inferiority complex.
maybe playing in a successful cork team that played decent football helped doyle settle into a succesfull reading team that played decent football?
This is getting ridiculous...How much longer is this going to be dragged out? This holier than thou rubbish from eL posters is a joke. Stephen Ward ended up in the international section because he's made an international move. We're not going to discuss him in world football because he's Irish. As an U-21 international, it makes sense to leave him in here. Mods here should really have handled this one better. Some of them obviously take this "ole ole brigade" tripe seriously.
just for the record billsthoughts wouldn't consider himself an el fan...
Exactly. The pure sh*t some of the EL brigade come out with is comical. They really should read some of the cr*p they type. Doyle hasn't improved since he moved from Cork?Quote:
Originally Posted by Donal81
Yeah right. Wake up ffs. He wasn't even a regular when he first joined Reading he had to wait until Kitson got injured. Now he's one of the top scorers in the Premiership. If he'd moved straight from the EL to the Premiership I'm sure he would still have banged in the goals like he's doing now.
Do some of these people watch top level football I wonder.
I purposely let this go into the discussion it did otherwise every similar thread will be taken over with this rubbish. I'm trying to explain what this forum is about now so I don't have to anymore, for the time being.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donal81
yeah for sure...but I wouldnt have anything against it either which is what I think a few people on here do. which I find a bit weird. I was just making the point that I would normally check this section and not the other ones. and I have never heard of the guy. so basically a lot of what is bein said is balls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
As an eL fan it did rankle with me a bit when eL players are automatically put in this Forum which is called the "National Team" forum , but i do accept eb's argument that many people feel that the forum fulfills a wider remit of providing a place for comment on Irish players not playing in the Eircom League.
What gets me is that people can't understand the el fan's POV and actually think it makes US look small minded...
Well you're not really like the average poster on this forum then as they'd usually follow the U21s. I actually find it very suprising that you, as a regular poster, haven't heard of Ward. He's certainly been talked about a bit on here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
They lost on the opening day.Doyle then got his chance (or so I remember).Hardly ages.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
Maybe you should let someone who watches championship matches every second week in person judge the standard of Championship everything (coaching, players).
Sligo Rovers have better training facilities than Cardiff City.FACT.
The Championship is not the holy grail of football.Ireland fans, get off your high horses.
honest I havent. gamble , o donnovon I have heard first about on here.
everyone in the country knows who jason byrne is. thats it.
cant think of any other that gets amention on here.....maxi?
Kitson was injured on the opening day. Himself and Lita were the regular starters for the next 5-6 games until he got injured again but don't let the facts obstruct you when making a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soper
On that note I'll take your other FACT with a pinch of salt if you don't mind.
Which is exactly why it should have been posted on here to inform you. EL fans you really need to get those chips off your shoulders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
Surely if one wished to be informed on eircom League players then the eircom League forum would be a better place to go,Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
Is this for real man? It's obvious Billsthoughts has never been to the EL forum and the lad is going to Wolves.Quote:
Originally Posted by gustavo
I said ''if I remember correctly'.I could have been wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
On the FACT question, fine.Dave Jones must have been wrong:rolleyes:
Can anyone point me to threads discussing Joe Gamble & Roy O'Donovan considering they are after all B Internationals ?
:confused:
Waiting...
(BTW if i see those threads i will tone the rhetoric down)
I'm not calling anyone small-minded and can appreciate why a fan of an Eircom League club feels underwhelmed when one of their players goes to England. It's the "here come the ole ole brigade" rubbish that I can't stand and that has absolutely no place on this forum. Everyone here took the time out to sign up to this website and all the posters so far involved in this argument post regularly, commenting on Irish football. For someone to just bleat out this "ole ole" argument about people on this site - and for mods to take it seriously - just because they're not a signed up member of the 400 Club is disgraceful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
If you want a target for your "ole ole" 'argument', go to the corporate suites where people are there with free tickets from the FAI as it's a good networking opportunity. Sure it's good craic and we'll have a singalong if that Richie Keane fella scores and does his somersault. Have a go at those. Don't have a go at people who are here posting about Irish football and don't happen to support an Eircom League club.
This thread is six pages long now and instead of it relating to the transfer of a young Irish player to a big English club, we're getting bogged down with this nonsense discussion.
I do the odd time to check on the broader stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
jesus I should get me own thread!
I was just pointing out I would have fitted the profile bein suggested earlier and I have never heard of ward thus the implication that he was discussed a lot before on this forum would seem to be false.
But the point we make is how can you support Irish soccer if you don't support your local side? I'd also ask what makes you better than those who get the free ticket?Quote:
Originally Posted by Donal81
He has been discussed here at least a couple of times before. I'm sure someone can find you the thread. I can't locate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
Because I'm Irish and I'm proud to be Irish. And I'm always interested in following the careers of the best Irish players (nearly all of whom play abroad) and not the poorer players who are never going to be good enough (this is the vast majority of players in the EL bar a handful of notable exceptions). I also think the FAI is run by a shower of wanke*s who consistently ruin our chances at international level with their amateurish setup and numerous blunderings (appointing Stan) even though IMO we nearly always have the talent to qualify for major tournaments. I therefore am not too keen to be providing them with more of my hard earned bucks to p*ss away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
I never said he was discussed a lot but if you're a regular poster here and follow the Irish players I'm very suprised you didn't know Ward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
Go here:
http://foot.ie/search.php
and search for the word Ward. "Search in forums" = Ireland.
He has been in and out of the U21s for the last 3 years.
I live in Grand Canal street so never grew up with a "local" side. I may live closer to somewhere like Richmond than plenty of Cork fans do to Turners Cross but to me Cork City are representing the city of Cork. Cork to Cork people is nothing like Dublin to Dublin people. Most of us couldn't care what county Duff is from as long as he's Irish. It's not the same with Cork. If you're from any part of Cork then you'll feel proud to see Cork City do well. I don't really know what I'm trying to say tbh but a local team for Dubs is really local. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
A couple of years ago I went to a few Pats matches with my nephew and I really wanted to become a supporter but I just had no affinity with them. I still follow the league and will go to the odd game, watch most of the televised games.
I think there is too much labelling in this thread to be honest. Too many "EL Brigade" comments and "Ole Ole Brigade" comments. I think that does not add to the debate in anyway. For what its worth I think there is nothing wrong with a player who goes to an English club being discussed in the Ireland forum but I would say that if people call for him to be in the senior squad due to where i.e. what country, he plays his football then that is wrong. Ward was a long way off best player in the Bohs team and I think he is a long way off to be in an Ireland full sqaud. Nothing wrong with his transfer to Wolves being discussed in both the EL forum and the Ireland forum in my view.
storm in a tea cup I'd call it
anyway - best of luck to Ward.
Its great to see players get a chance and el clubs get a fair transfer for them.
I hope he makes an impact. The same with all the players who have recently switched to Scotland and Championship sides.
It can only benefit the EL in the long run if a fair percentage of these players go on to make big impacts cross channel. Transfer fees will rise steadily.
on a related point I disagree that we're witnessing a haemorrage of "talent" - as mentioned in the Tribune. A lot of these transfers are speculative - Ward has been bought on potential alone - he only scored 1 goal last season (AFAIK)
Keegan and Molloy are the Old Age Pensioners of teh league and hardly "rising stars" - good players but again no loss in the overall scheme of things.
Dillon - a loss no question - but no Owen Heary in fairness.
Bobby Ryan - again no spring chicken.
Byrne - the best striker in the league - but once again has had plenty of seasons in football here.
What are the clubs going to do with 'all' this money. For the good of Irish football I'd like to see it used to keep young Irish players for 1-2 years more (e.g. Connor Clifford). But I wonder if they will start to prey on poorer leagues, might there be an influx of cheap Lithuanian talent?
Good question. Unfortunately the figures as they curently stand - for transfers would not pay for infrastructural projects - ie ground developments. The money would than go to meet the current costs of running a professional EL team - ie wages - for current and new players. I doubt if there will be an influx of Lithuanian players. There are very few Eastern European players who have ever made a go of it in Irish football.Quote:
Originally Posted by cavan_fan
And, I'm open to coreection but we were rapidly catching up on many of the smaller eastern euro nations in terms of UEFA ranking.
Do you honestly think that the FAI are going to turn around to their biggest corporate sponsors and say "by the way, we appreciate the money but you'll have to buy your tickets like everyone else and sit in the bucket seats in the North Terrace"? Cop on. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Donal81
Sponsors such as Eircom, Umbro, FIAT, and some of the banks and building socs, pour money into Irish football, and they get free tickets in return, it's a fact of life and it's not going to change. It's the bogger saps in jester hats with families in tow that get to most people, I'd imagine. Telling people to sit down and stop swearing, as they cannot see the match, because they're used to watching football on the telly.
:rolleyes:
I don't support a local side because there was no local side to support when I was growing up. Soccer was always my first game and I played it at juvenile level until I was 17. I continue to play it socially. Is it my fault that I didn't have a club to support? Come on Dodge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Christ, I'm not a better person than someone in a corporate suite. But if the person is there for the networking opportunities, I'd guess that I'm more of a fan than he is. I don't have issues with this, the FAI needs the cash (other than the time my German boss got a ticket to the Ireland/France game thanks to Eircom and spent the next day telling hilarious tales about "all those men in nylon tops"), but what we have here is one group of supporters slagging off another group of supporters for their supposed lack of support and it's lousy.
I understand the concept of corporate sponsorship, thanks very much. If you read my post, you'd see that I was using corporate suites as a comparison with people who support Ireland and go to games regularly, not questioning the concept of corporate sponsorship (although thanks for the explanation on how it works).Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaime
Really? Because there seems to be an awful lot of people on this forum who go to games regularly but still get abuse for not supporting a local side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaime