Stephen Kenny to Dunfermline?

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

08/11/2006, 9:36 PM
chippie0001

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roo69

Get out clause if a UK club came in for him apperently. Can't blame him really, brought Derry as far as he can and probably being offered a much better contract. Sad to see a good manager leave the league though, but i'm sure most eL people would wish him good luck.

Agree 100%, I hope he is a good success over there. Always a nice chap and was delighted when we appointed him manager. He can't be any worse than the last EL manager to try his luck in the UK.:rolleyes:
08/11/2006, 10:05 PM
LukeO

I'm sick of this f�cking b�llox. Kenny lost the plot at Bohs and was NOT going to turn it around. I couldn't be bothered going through everything again, here's something I posted a month or so ago on this very issue:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke O'Riordan

I'm sick of this nonsense that we were wrong to get rid of Kenny.

- We had the biggest budget in the league (or if wasn't the biggest, the difference between ours and Shels was marginal).

- Kenny bottled the title in 2003. Having beaten Shelbourne 3-1 and gone on to be six points clear (I think it was six, but I'm open to correction), poor defeats in November; 1-0 to Shelbourne (50/50 game, fair enough), 1-0 to Derry and 2-0 to Drogheda who were both poor sides back then, finishing ninth and eight respectively in a ten-team league.
Coupled with disappointing draws with Rovers (finished 7th) and UCD (finished bottom), we took only 4 points from 15 in the title run-in at the end of the season and only 2 points from 12 against the bottom four teams at the end of the season.

- Ignored players' pleas to play five in midfield against Rosenborg in the first leg with the net result being that we we were slaughtered in midfield an extremely lucky not to be beaten more than 1-0 before going on to lose the second leg 4-0.

- Replaced Gary O'Neill who has since gone on to prove himself to be one of the best strikers in the league with the stocking of **** that is Robbie Doyle.

- God rid of Derek Coughlan, one of our star performers from the league win in 02/03, while somehow believing Paul McNally was good enough to pick up a wage of €1000+ per week for doing sweet f.a.

2004

- We were ten points behind Shelbourne at the time of Kenny's dismissal, having lost twice to the mighty Dublin City and were incapable of winning games we dominated resulting in nine league draws by the time Kenny got the chop in August 04.

- Kenny won only three out of 17 of his last home games at Bohs.

- We lost 3-1 in the UEFA Cup to a team that Pete Mahon managed to beat comprehensively 3-0 only a few years previously. (The first time we had been knocked out at the first hurdle since 1997). We had drawn the first leg 0-0 with Ken Oman winning motm, yet Kenny replaced him with the injured and well out of form Colin Hawkins for the return leg. As far as I can remember Hawkins was directly responsible for two, if not three of the goals we conceded.

- He had lost the respect of many senior players who were bitching about him behind his back.

- Got paranoid and prevented players from speaking to the media and accused people of having an agenda against him.

- Prevented players from renegotiating contracts with Bohs until he was given an extension to his own, with the net effect being that nine players including Glen Crowe and Simon Webb were allowed leave the club at the end of the season.

- Replaced one useless, arsehole assistant (Liam O'Brien) with another (Gary Howlett).

__________________________________________________ _______

I could go on, but you get the drift. I'm glad Kenny's doing so well at Derry as he's someone I admire both as a person and a manager and was sad that his spell at Bohs had to end the way it did. But the reality is that it HAD to end as things were simply going from bad to worse and in reality his tenure probably should have ended earlier, after our second defeat to Dublin City so that another manager could have come in and steadied the ship for the UEFA Cup games.

I think he has learnt from his time at Bohs and his short break from the game did him good as he had time to look back objectively at mistakes and errors of judgement he made with us and he's unlikely to make the same mistakes again at Derry. He's doing a great job with Derry in what is a much harder league to do well in than the league was when he was in charge at Bohs as there are now at least five clubs (Drogheda, Shels, Bohs, Cork and Derry) with budgets of way over €1m p/a while when he was at Bohs, there was only ourselves and Shels with such budgets

Bohs were not mistaken in sacking Kenny, they just made a massive blunder in who they appointed as his successor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Trader

You have delusions of grandeur big time and sacked the best manager in the country which has to go down as the biggest howler of this decade.

Only by idiots who haven't a clue about Kenny's record at Bohs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Trader

By the way you have replaced a spoofer with a super spoofer. ;)

We know...
08/11/2006, 10:17 PM
dancinpants

Good stuff Luke...any chance you could send that to the Dunfirmline chairman...and quickly? ;)
09/11/2006, 12:12 AM
Dr.Nightdub

Says a lot about the state of the League that the managers of three of the top five clubs either have walked or look like they're about to do so.
09/11/2006, 1:00 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub

Says a lot about the state of the League that the managers of three of the top five clubs either have walked or look like they're about to do so.

Are you including Farrelly in that...? :confused:
09/11/2006, 1:05 AM
dancinpants

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Are you including Farrelly in that...? :confused:

Kenny, Connor, and Fenlon?
09/11/2006, 1:32 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancinpants

Kenny, Connor, and Fenlon?

Who's the other 2 then ?
09/11/2006, 1:38 AM
dancinpants

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Who's the other 2 then ?

He said managers of 3 of the top 5 clubs. I named 3 managers. Cork and Drogs seem OK managerially right now. :confused:
09/11/2006, 6:16 AM
The Sheliban

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke O'Riordan

I'm sick of this f�cking b�llox. Kenny lost the plot at Bohs and was NOT going to turn it around.

Okay, you're right, he was a useless manager. You were only second in the table at the time with a good third of the season left. If he'd have been any good, you'd have been out in front by 18 points.

If he has gone to Dunfermline, does anyone not think the timing of it is pretty dreadful, though?
09/11/2006, 7:01 AM
EireBadBoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Sheliban

If he has gone to Dunfermline, does anyone not think the timing of it is pretty dreadful, though?

Yip, I think it's dreadful timing meself.
09/11/2006, 7:45 AM
sonofstan

According to Morning Ireland, he's staying at Derry till after the cup final
09/11/2006, 8:06 AM
Magicme

just heard on Today FM that he is goint to Dunfermline after the Cup Final.

Good luck to him but he is a big loss to Irish football.
09/11/2006, 8:41 AM
bohs til i die

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Sheliban

Okay, you're right, he was a useless manager. You were only second in the table at the time with a good third of the season left. If he'd have been any good, you'd have been out in front by 18 points.

If he has gone to Dunfermline, does anyone not think the timing of it is pretty dreadful, though?

We were 2nd in a two horse race with Cork only catching us both up in 2004.
09/11/2006, 8:44 AM
bohs til i die

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Trader

You have delusions of grandeur big time and sacked the best manager in the country which has to go down as the biggest howler of this decade. By the way you have replaced a spoofer with a super spoofer. ;)

Kenny was not the best manager in the country in 2004. The best manager was Fenlon and possibly still is Fenlon. Kenny and Fenlon would have had similar budgets in 2002-03, 2003 and 2004 and Fenlon won 2 league titles, Kenny still only has 1.

Just because he has improved as a manager at a new club doesnt mean he would have improved had he stayed at Bohs.
09/11/2006, 8:49 AM
BohsPartisan

And how much has he improved. The league was Derry's for the taking and he's bottled it again.
09/11/2006, 9:24 AM
BohsPartisan

Today's Irish Times :

Quote:

National League: There was a growing sense in both Scotland and on Foyleside last night that Stephen Kenny will leave Derry City to become manager of Scottish Premier Division strugglers Dunfermline after the FAI Cup final next month.

The Dubliner insists that nothing has been agreed but sources close to Dunfermline suggest that they believe Kenny will take over early next month while there were reports yesterday in Derry that he had met directors of the Brandywell outfit to confirm his desire to leave.

"There's been an offer and I have a decision to make," Kenny confirmed last night, "but nothing's been done, there's no agreement in place."

The 36-year-old former Longford Town and Bohemians boss insisted that he would remain in charge of City for the team's remaining league games this season and that he would still be at the club for the FAI Cup final against St Patrick's Athletic on December 3rd. Although he declined to elaborate on what would happen then, however, it looks increasingly as if his future might lie elsewhere.

It is believed that he travelled to Scotland at the weekend to meet Dunfermline officials and that they have made it clear to the local media that they believe they have found their man. It is also widely believed that he will bring his first-team coach Declan Devine, a former goalkeeper at Derry, Glentoran and Hull City, with him to his new job.

Dunfermline certainly appear willing too to wait until the second week in December to get Kenny despite the fact that they currently lie at the bottom of the Premier Division with just nine points, two less than Dundee United, from the 13 games they have played so far. With two years left on their manager's contract Derry would, of course, be hoping to receive compensation in the event that Kenny departs but he is believed to have a clause in his deal that allows him to depart in circumstances such as these. It is not clear, though, precisely what terms it specifies.

There are said to have been indirect contact between the two clubs yesterday and so ultimately it seems that a disagreement over money will not scupper any move assuming Kenny wants to go.

Before then, he has the opportunity to finish the season here on a relative high even if the league title does look to be beyond his side in the wake of Tuesday's disappointing 3-1 defeat in Drogheda. "I'm determined that we finish the season as strongly as we can over the last three games," he said. "The league's not in our hands anymore but the least we can do is to make sure we qualify for Europe and then see what happens elsewhere."

Shelbourne, he realises, would now have to more or less collapse for Derry's title aspirations to be revived and the championship could be settled as early as tomorrow night when Derry visit their cup final opponents in Inchicore and Pat Fenlon's side travels to Cork.

Understandably, however, he refuses to concede defeat and is determined that his side do their best to keep the pressure on their rivals.

Even if Derry fail to add to the League Cup they have already won this season, his already strong reputation has been hugely enhanced during his almost two and a half years or so at the Brandywell. He arrived at the club - in the wake of Bohemians' hasty decision to sack him - at a time when they were struggling and morale within the squad was low. Since then the team has won two league cups, missed out on a championship title on the last day of last season and made it to a cup final.

Dunfermline clearly hope that he can work a similar sort of transformation at East End Park and it is not entirely surprising that Kenny, though he insists he loves his current job, appears to be tempted by the challenge himself.
09/11/2006, 9:38 AM
cheech

Quote:

It is believed that he travelled to Scotland at the weekend to meet Dunfermline officials

I'd be fecking fuming if I was a Derry fan. That means he was in talks about another job a day or two before the massive game against Drogs on Tuesday night, a game which ultimately may cost them the title.

Whether Harps like to admit it or not, this is going to have a profound effect on our own destiny. New manager comes in - Higgsy comes to us, McHugh coming back, Pizza manages us other Derry players released etc etc. Will be very interesting to see and although he will be very very difficult to replace, he still only won one league cup.

He could have been (still could) an all time hero and legend in Derry had he went on and won the treble, or even the league for that matter.
09/11/2006, 9:49 AM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

And how much has he improved. The league was Derry's for the taking and he's bottled it again.

You've said that a few times now without any shred of evidence.

Define bottling and justify why he's bottled it.

As a hint, I'd be fairly certain our wages are 4th highest in the League.

We finished 2nd last season and will hopefully better 4th this season. So he performed better than expected.
09/11/2006, 9:49 AM
Krstic

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheech

I'd be fecking fuming if I was a Derry fan. That means he was in talks about another job a day or two before the massive game against Drogs on Tuesday night, a game which ultimately may cost them the title.

Whether Harps like to admit it or not, this is going to have a profound effect on our own destiny. New manager comes in - Higgsy comes to us, McHugh coming back, Pizza manages us other Derry players released etc etc. Will be very interesting to see and although he will be very very difficult to replace, he still only won one league cup.

He could have been (still could) an all time hero and legend in Derry had he went on and won the treble, or even the league for that matter.

Firstly, he's won 2 league cups to date with Derry.
Secondly, why would any of the current Derry set-up want to join Finn Harps?
09/11/2006, 9:52 AM
sonofstan

Looking at as Pars message board last night - they're so depressed they make Bohs look like 14 year old Shels fans. All they want out of this season is not to be relegated, so if he can manage that he has all of next season to build. Some of them are wondering what they are doing recruiting from a league that they perceive as well below the SPL but they respect the Euro run
09/11/2006, 10:04 AM
Poor Student

I think people are also forgetting that after nearly 10 years as an eL manager he could really be looking forward to a change of scene. Particularly after the league problems this season he must feel like he'd like to get out of here. There's strong rumours that the goings on at Shels have worn Nutsy down to the point of quitting soon and these things have probably similarly affected Kenny.
09/11/2006, 10:24 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheech

I'd be fecking fuming if I was a Derry fan. That means he was in talks about another job a day or two before the massive game against Drogs on Tuesday night, a game which ultimately may cost them the title.

Not ideal, but he wasn't in control of the timings for when Dunfermline either needed a Manager or made their approach to him. So what was he to do - pretend to himself that he hadn't been approached, and ask them to go away and come back in a few weeks ? Yeah - they'd love to do that for someone who refused to even talk to them initially..... :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheech

Whether Harps like to admit it or not, this is going to have a profound effect on our own destiny. New manager comes in - Higgsy comes to us, McHugh coming back, Pizza manages us other Derry players released etc etc.

Holy fcuk Cheech - where do you get your drugs from ?!? Mc Hugh going to Finn Harps - are you for real ? :eek: As for this notion of a clear out at the club - one word : Why ? We have a very good, young, hard-working squad based-locally. Even if another Manager did want to make changes, where would he get the money to do it ?? And he would struggle to gte a lot of new players to move to the city - something I suspect the Board would insist upon now from any signing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheech

Will be very interesting to see and although he will be very very difficult to replace, he still only won one league cup.

Two actually. About as accurate as the rest of your post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheech

He could have been (still could) an all time hero and legend in Derry had he went on and won the treble, or even the league for that matter.

Be in no doubt about this - Stephen Kenny will remain a legend on Foyleside. Even more so as the whole 'would could've been/if only' dreaming kicks-in with time.
09/11/2006, 10:26 AM
BohsPartisan

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

You've said that a few times now without any shred of evidence.

.

The evidence is there in front of your nose. Like when Kenny was with us, he got you into a position to challenge for the league title and when the pressure was really on he was found wanting. BTID and Neill have already outlined the evidence of him being a bottler while at Bohs. His last season was so bad that things actually improved for a while when Farrelly came in - more because of Kenny's absence than Farrelly's presence.
09/11/2006, 10:31 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

The evidence is there in front of your nose. Like when Kenny was with us, he got you into a position to challenge for the league title and when the pressure was really on he was found wanting. BTID and Neill have already outlined the evidence of him being a bottler while at Bohs. His last season was so bad that things actually improved for a while when Farrelly came in - more because of Kenny's absence than Farrelly's presence.

I'll let you into two secrets BP.

Firstly - only one team can win the league.

Secondly - both this season and last season, we have been the team chasing the top spot - not in it. We've constantly been trying to play catch up. So how the hell can you bottle being first place when you've never actually resided there ???:confused: Did Cork and Drogheda bottle it as well ? Drogs spent more of this season top of the table than we did. Did all 10/11 other Premier clubs likewise 'bottle it' ?

Hell hath no bitterness like a Gypsy scorned...
09/11/2006, 10:47 AM
BohsPartisan

Drawing with us, Bray and losing to the Drogs when you were in a position to over-take Shels is bottling it. The other two weren't in the position you were in. Doolin didn't even get Drogheda close enough to bottle it. If this was a once off then you'd give Kenny the benefit of the doubt but the fact this is the third time he has been in this situation speeks volumes. I don't get the "Hell hath no bitterness like a Gypsy scorned..." - We sacked him after all. I wouldn't have him back either. This campaign has proven that he's learned nothing since he was with us.
09/11/2006, 10:58 AM
SwanVsDalton

Would never have considered taking a club on the brink of relegation to within touching distance of the treble as 'bottling it.' But if Connor emulates him i'm sure you'll still be dissapointed. :rolleyes:
09/11/2006, 11:15 AM
Jerry The Saint

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub

Says a lot about the state of the League that the managers of three of the top five clubs either have walked or look like they're about to do so.

Just what I was thinking - and it's not a new thing either. In recent years, Dermot Keely, Roddy Collins and Pat Dolan have all managed to talk themselves out of jobs or walk away from successful teams.
09/11/2006, 11:33 AM
bohs til i die

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Would never have considered taking a club on the brink of relegation to within touching distance of the treble as 'bottling it.' But if Connor emulates him i'm sure you'll still be dissapointed. :rolleyes:

Kenny did the same thing at Bohs. He took over and we were in the playoff spot, 13 months later we were champions.

Its no surprise that he has done well at Derry as he is a good manager but he lsot his way at Bohs quite a bit and there was a lot of stuff going on in the backround but at Derry he has been afforded funds to sign quite a few players [Kelly, Oman, McCourt, Brennan, McHugh, O'Flynn, McCafferty, Holmes, Molloy] so he has hardly turned a relegation troubled squad into title challengers, he has signed quite a few players to add to some decent players already there and has done quite well.

As for his two league cup wins, Alan Matthews has Two FAI Cup wins and a league cup win, does that make Matthews a better manager? No. Titles decide that and so far Kenny has ONE. Fenlon has TWO and probably THREE in 8 days time [although i hope not].
09/11/2006, 11:36 AM
BohsPartisan

Plus Fenlon has had to motivate players who quite often have to go without pay.
09/11/2006, 11:41 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Drawing with us, Bray and losing to the Drogs when you were in a position to over-take Shels is bottling it. The other two weren't in the position you were in. Doolin didn't even get Drogheda close enough to bottle it.

Complete and utter nonesense. If Drogs had beaten Shels last friday, they'd only be one point behind the leaders now with 3 games to go. How the hell does that constitute "not getting close enough to bottle it"....?!? :confused: You're talking out of your arse.

Clubs fortunes ebb and flow over a season. Shels had their bad run a good few months ago. Drogs had their bad run in the middle of the campaign, and are having their good spell at the moment. Unfortunately for Derry, our bad run of form has come as the league has drawn to a close, and Europe meant that our games against Drogheda all coincided with their good spell and our bad one. That's what's really costing us any title. Sh!t happens.

If any Manager has 'bottled' it this season it's Rico. He took a team that were worthy Champions last year, and is currently in danger of seeing them finish 4th and miss out on Europe altogether this season. He should be the target of any managerial disdain or childish accusations of 'bottling'.

I'll remind you again that Drogs have spent more of this season at the top of the table than Derry have, and had they beaten Shels last Friday would've been only one point off the top with 9 points left to play for and an easier run-in than Shels. If you didn't view Irish football through anti-Stephen Kenny glasses you might have grasped that that is a clearer case of blowing it for a team that is currently in-form.
09/11/2006, 1:07 PM
BohsPartisan

I'm not anti-stephen kenny. I was one of the people who was defending him on the Bohs message board for a long time when others were calling for his head but I was proved wrong and I applaud those who saw what I couldn't at the time. Now if you take off your Pro-Kenny glasses you might see what I mean.

He's the Irish Kevin Keegan.
09/11/2006, 1:45 PM
cavan_fan

It's a stunning indictment of the EL that Kenny is going to Dunfermline. As stated above they are a nothing team and yet this is probably a good career move. (You can imagine if he got them into the top half of the table someone like Preston taking a chance on him, from there a Premiership job is achievable).

With this, financial problems at Shels, a chaotic end to the season it's hard to see next seasons european runs matching this seasons.
09/11/2006, 2:09 PM
LukeO

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Trader

I really dont give two S**T about Europe as we have so many issues to deal with here in our domestic league that people shoud refocus themselves on getting a well organised and well run and strong league. I cant see why so many people have a facination with Europe i cant imagine any of clubs made too much money from it.

You can make a hell of a lot of money from Europe. I'd imagine Shels made thousands the season they played Deportivo.

The season we played Kaiserslautern we got about half a milion from German tv alone. Plus in terms of gate receipts we played in front of a sell-out croud at Tolka against Aberdeen and a sell-out croud in Dalymount when we played Rosenborg.
09/11/2006, 2:10 PM
pete

I think the big issue now is who will Stephen Kenny take with him to Scotland. How many players out of contract or have clauses in their contracts?
09/11/2006, 2:23 PM
SwanVsDalton

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

I think the big issue now is who will Stephen Kenny take with him to Scotland. How many players out of contract or have clauses in their contracts?

That's what i'm worried about. Not sure who has clauses or could easily leave but i'm sure most of the players would jump at the chance to join Kenny in the SPL. Deery, Kelly, Molloy and Oman are the most likely to be targeted IMO.
09/11/2006, 2:24 PM
NY Hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

I'm not anti-stephen kenny. I was one of the people who was defending him on the Bohs message board for a long time when others were calling for his head but I was proved wrong and I applaud those who saw what I couldn't at the time. Now if you take off your Pro-Kenny glasses you might see what I mean.

He's the Irish Kevin Keegan.

Keegan never won the top championship even with millions at his disposal. Gypos just have a chip on their shoulders because of his subsequent success. Boez have done squat since he left.

Brought Longford from nothing to Europe. Won the league with boez. Great European success with Derry.

In addition when you dont win the league generally its because you are not good enough over the whole season not because you "bottled" it. A myth along with the new "punching above your weight" crap.

Dunfermline is a promotion for Kenny. Not the playing standard which is pretty much the same but the administration and the facilities are so far ahead over there we will never come near with plebs administering the game here. Can anyone really blame him for leaving?

Without doubt the Gretna result got him the job. Best of luck to him.

KOH
09/11/2006, 3:15 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

I'm not anti-stephen kenny. I was one of the people who was defending him on the Bohs message board for a long time when others were calling for his head but I was proved wrong and I applaud those who saw what I couldn't at the time. Now if you take off your Pro-Kenny glasses you might see what I mean.

He's the Irish Kevin Keegan.

Rubbish. Keegan was 12 points clear at the top of the English Premier league at Christmas, yet still managed to blow the title.

Kenny has been nowhere near being in such a situation - in fact, he's usually been with the team challenging the club at the top - so your comparison is lazy and untrue.

I note you haven't addressed the point that if anyone has bottled it this season it's an in-form Drogheda side who could be only 1 point off the top now with an easy run-in, and also arch-bottler Damien Richardson, who's taken Cork form worthy champions to a team struggling for 3rd place in less than 12 months. But just you keep plugging away at SK though...

But as NY Hoop has pointed out, this notion of "bottling it" is just a lazy cliche. Only one team can win the league. That doesn't make every other club 'bottlers'....
09/11/2006, 3:26 PM
BohsPartisan

Yes I have. I think Doolin is a bad manager. Nothing to do with Bottling. I think Kenny is a good manager until he gets to the final hurdle. Thats my definition of bottling, falling when the finish line is insight.
09/11/2006, 3:27 PM
Bosco

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Plus Fenlon has had to motivate players who quite often have to go without pay.

When Kenny came to Longford he had to motivate players who were stuck to the very bottom of Division One and some weeks were only getting paid because of generous donations from fans,3 years later and walla we had just been in our very first cup final and were now playing for the first time in our brand new 7,000 all seater stadium.Poor aul Fenlon having to try and motivate overpaid mutts chasing the league title when they may have had to wait a whole extra week for their wages!
09/11/2006, 3:29 PM
sonofstan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bosco

walla

:confused:

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page