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I cant belive you have used there is never smoke without fire as a retort on a debate in relation to tabloid speculation on football transfers. Of course there is as another cliche is a newspaper does not refuse ink. These guys print anything and most of what they say in relation to transfers does not transpire to actually happen
Also 16 goals last season is hardly poor form he was one of the best players in the EPL between January and May last season.
Do they hand out titles for your form between january and may?
Yeah I did use that...one cliche deserves another and all that...
Tabloids are usually very well informed and he was top of most of their speculation lists. I dont know the exact stats tho.
No they dont, but form is form and his form was good between January and May,. YOu said it his bad form was neverending, and I am stating that it has only started this season, and he was fantastic against Sheff Utd so his bad form has probably started since the Germany game which was about 4 or 5 weeks ago. I agree his form of the last 4/5 weeks has not been great.
so we agree that the "player of the season" stat suggests a little more than the reality of the situation delivers?
Yeah I'd agree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by endabob1
I feel you're underestimating Reid. He's a central midfielder now and shouldn't be thought of as anything else. He may have started his Blackburn career on the right but he played in every position possible at Millwall. It appears he has found his position and I'm happy to have him. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by galwayhoop
How many competitive games do we play against top class opposition? I'm sure if he gets the chances he'll take them. It's up the manager to play him right and the team to create a few chances. Also, he did score against Switzerland but it was wrongly ruled out for offside. ;)Quote:
when was last competetive goal against top class opposition
Take out Euro 2004 and Wayne Rooney has scored against Macedonia and Liechtenstein in his entire career. Or Milan Baros who scored against Andorra, Macedonia, Finland and Armenia in the last qualifiers but couldn't score in the matches against Holland, Romania and playoff against Norway. They're honestly just 2 players that popped into my head but people seem to make a big fuss over Keane's international record which imo is excellent.
I don't think you'll see me trying to deny that. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
Ha ha, brilliant!!! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
As for you're stats don't prove anything comment. WTF? Of course they do.
Careful Pete, thats awfully subordinate talk of you, the masses will erm, amass against you!
Stan is doomed either way, and em, I'm not too pushed, wouldn't mind a few days in Cyprus and catch a match (:
Can you prove that ?Quote:
Originally Posted by BaZmO*
with stats????
Henry scored 27 goals in the Premier League last year there by making him the league's top goalscorer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
Eirebhoy eat your heart out!!! ;)
The denial that stats mean anything and they cant be used in a debate is very handy for people who dont back any debate with facts.
Most debates are based on opinions, facts and ability to get your point across. A combination that Eirebhoy has.
The analysis of some sports like cricket, baseball, tennis & rugby (own lineouts lost etc.) benefits greatly from use of stats. Relying on stats in football is less conclusive. Personally I think they're useful but only up to a point. Understanding the game is far more important.
I do think eirebhoy's stats of Connolly with & without Robbie Keane told a good story though.
Anyway, stats can be manipulated to suit any purpose. Daryl Huff's "Lying With Statistics" from the 1950s is a classic on the subject. More recently "Fooled by Randomness" is supposed to be excellent. John Allen Paolos' "Innumeracy" is a brilliant book on how the masses' failure to understand simple maths leads to rash decision making, and just generally stupid behaviour. My mum thinks it's a co-incidence if she meets her neighbour out shopping, I tell her it's a statistical certainty!
Thats mad I met your mother out shopping too. She said hello.
i actually think he is best in a central role and felt that he should of played more of a role up to now and espeically in WC2002 - altho in a wide role at the time. my point being that he is a decent player but i wouldn't overstate that by celebrating him as a finished article or even close to it. it may take him a while to become the finished article but he is as good as what is available. i don't think being the player of the year at blackburn is proof that he is a top preformer. i'll say it again teams like blackbun are mediocre in a european context. countries like cyprus have players playing in the greek league and IMO players in these leagues are not as far behind teams like blackburn as they once were.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
regarding robbie keane he is without doubt our best striker but again without his goals in friendlies, penalties and goals against group bottom feders his record is not as impressive as one would hope. the comparison of rooney is interesting as he is not really a 30-goal-a-season man but more of a 'number 10' or support striker which IMO is also robbies best role. obviously rooney contributes alot more than his goalscoring alone but the difference is that england have others to take on the goal scoring and at the moment we don't. baros on the other hand is again an average player and against good defenders usually rendered ineffective.
again my main point is not meant to critise individual players merely to point out that i think we have a limited squad with few outstanding players and therefore the managers job is not easy, not makin excuses for stan as only time will tell if he is any good, personally i hope he is but i have serious misgivings
i met he too ............. not out shopping though!!!!:D :D :DQuote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
appologies for that one but i couldn't resist
Well, she's a Celtic fan so you'd have had something to talk about.
Can we leave my mum out of it from now on pls?
Sorry Stuttgart, I did not want to go to that level, hope mine was taking for the innocent nature it was meant.
mine was so ar below the belt that i skint my knuckles on the canvas and i have already appolgised - i won't revisit it;) :o
no offence taken
yet another dig neil but we will let it go.....:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
I dont agree . In fact I think they stifle debate about football if anything. Dismissing peoples opinions on the basis that you can qoute stats like number of passes completed is ridiculous in my opinion. The game is about opinions. I might think someone played rubbish you might say they played alrite. Quoting their stats for passes completed doesnt tell me anything. It might mean they always complete their passes or they always want to get rid of the ball.
who knows - who cares. Most people who enjoy the game just know!
fair point bill. you could have 90% passes completed in a game but have had little or no effect - could have gone sideways or backwards all day and someone could have a 40% accuracy while setting up 2 or 3 goals with class balls through the middle. similary a winger might have whipped in crosses all day but the lads up front could be useless thus destroying the wingers stats when in fact he could of been the best player on the pitch.
stats can be useful but only tell a part of the story - thats why you get match reports in words and not in a numerical format!
Not making a dig at anyone and if I have never said that stats are the be all and end all. But a debate that misses any of the 3 kep components of debate which is opinion, facts and ability to get the point accross is a flawed debate. That is why a list of facts without opinion is not good and vice versa.
youve just changed over from stats to facts.
Stats or fact either or will do. A combination of all four so will do. Stats on their own mean nothing but in combination with facts and opinion they lead to a good argument especially if they are put across in a very readable manner.
Finally it was not a dig it was just a point that it is easy for anybody to dismiss stats or facts if they never use them.
But the most important part of a match report? The score!!! Never seen that being written in word form!! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by galwayhoop
I wonder what people who are dismissing stats think of programmes such as Pro Zone etc. Stats are important in footballing but only in the posession of someone who also has a good footballing brain. To dismiss them outright is ludicrous in my opinion.
However I agree to use them as the be all and end all in a debate is both pointless and boring. I dont think Eirebhoy does this by the way.
Dunphy on the upcoming games. from the RTE website
Meanwhile, the upcoming internationals against Cyprus and the Czech Republic are vitally important for manager Steve Staunton and his injury-hit Republic of Ireland squad. The Cyprus match is one that we will always be expected to win, while the Czechs at home is going to be a very difficult match. I think they'll be two very difficult assignments, things are going wrong for Staunton injury-wise and he's involved in one or two controversies, particularly with Lee Carsley, which doesn't reflect well on him or what's happening. I don't see any rays of sunshine.
We always expect to beat Cyprus but I think this time it might be problematic, while the Czech game will also be very hard to get something from so I wouldn't be putting much money on Ireland in either game.
There's been a lot of talk about the lack of quality in the Irish midfield since Roy Keane's retirement, but I believe the solution on this occasion is sitting at home. Lee Carsley has made himself available yet, despite the mounting injury list, Staunton has been reluctant to bring him back into the squad. There are doubts about Kevin Doyle's fitness, Steven Reid is out, the midfield of John O'Shea and Kevin Kilbane doesn't look overly impressive and was certainly found wanting last time out.
Staunton's options aren't great; the injured Graham Kavanagh is a big loss, so some of the problems are out of his control. However, other problems are within his control, such as the decision not to take Lee Carsley, which seems to me a very bizarre option
I am the first one to say Dunphy is a muppet but i have to agree with what he says above. Why with all the injuries is Lee carsley AT HOME? I hope ww get a result and the players stauton has kept faith repay the manager with a great performance! IE O shea, Kilbane, Keane who IMO should be dropped based on recent performances! Keane should not be Irish Captain. It should have been Shay Given! (World Class, Leader, Passion, communicates and more importantly a desire to win at all costs something Keane lacks in abundance!
I hope Stan proves me different!!
the whole carsley issue says a lot to me about Stan.
He goes chasing Kevin Nolan who would prefer to play for greenland rather than ireland. Then he talks about passion. carsley comes says he really wants to play for ireland, comes out of retirement to make himself available and is given the 2 fingers.
Then in the germany game leaving out andy Reid who im sure we are all agreed should have been at least in the squad. Players will resent other players been treated like this.
This is not an improvment in managerial terms... we are going backwards and the rankings second this