Henry the cheat

Don't forget Neil, when it comes to things relating to Arsenal, I'm a neutral and objective.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

No thread is objective by its nature, its an expression of opinion by people who have formed that opinion by living their live. Their live is influenced by both outside and internal influences. Nurture and nature as it is often put. My morals are influenced by my parents my friends and the culture that I live in. I bring all of those influences when I post on this thread. Therefore a thread by its very nature cannot be objective unless its a statement of fact i.e a list of results of world cup matches. Now that would not make very interesting reading. None of your posts are ojective either Karlos, and wait a minute not one post in this whole forum is objective unless it states basic hard facts which I woudl say less than 1% of posts do.

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Wow Neil....that was insightful but unnecessary. All I am saying is that if you are so apalled by this sort of thing then this should have been the last in a long line of threads in this world cup. Predictably it wasn't. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by KarlosIRL

Wow Neil....that was insightful but unnecessary. All I am saying is that if you are so apalled by this sort of thing then this should have been the last in a long line of threads in this world cup. Predictably it wasn't. :rolleyes:

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haven't commented on this thread to date, but i think it is fair to say that henry has been easily the biggest 'star' to be unmasked as a cheat so far, and accordingly gets a thread. if you look at the 2002 threads, amid all the roy keane threads the only one about a cheat is rivaldo. there was other cheating in that world cup, but rivaldo was the biggest name to be caught on camera deliberately trying to get an opponent sent off. 4 years on, henry is the biggest name that is caught cheating on camera.

he probably doesn't deserve a reputation for it, because off the top of my head, i cannot remember him ever diving for arsenal, but he will now be always known as an amazing and brilliant footballer, but also a dirty cheater.

Henry cheated once and people want to mark him for life. Mentioning Roy Keane there, is it forgotten that he was the first or one of the first to be booked for a blatant dive in the the penalty area?

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Originally Posted by KarlosIRL

Wow Neil....that was insightful but unnecessary. All I am saying is that if you are so apalled by this sort of thing then this should have been the last in a long line of threads in this world cup. Predictably it wasn't. :rolleyes:

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Not sure what you are getting at here. I cannot post on every player as I simply dont have the time. I have answered this question already. The reason I posted was timing but it was also the fact that Henry has been so outspoken about diving in the game. In addition he still denies he dived. I think Arsenal fans get very touchy when you dare criticise their players. I wish people would take off their Man Utd, Or Spurs or Liverpool or Arsenal hats when commenting on football and try to look at incidents in a fair and balanced manner. oh to Finish Ginola was a diving ****er also.

Henry did not dive - of that there is no doubt I think since there was clearly contact between the players. What he did was feign injury to his face.

Semantics. I would class feigning injury and diving in the same category and feigning injury is possibly worse.

IMO we are to naieve when it comes to "cheating"
As far as im concerned Henry done what benefited his team its his duty to do what ever he can to win.If someone sticks a leg out in the box go down
if someone catches you after missing the ball in a tackle go down like a ton of bricks get him booked sent off even better.Its your responsibility to your team mates and manager the sooner we cop on the better.Managers encourage it believe me in this country and england we just arent as good at it.
Divers and cheaters are the modern day hard men they use cunning and deceit instead of physical intimidation
Its an art in itself if a very black one

Well I dont like it and it should be stamped out of the game, the same way that the hard men were stamped out of the game and ruined the 1990 world cup, are you watching Mick Mc Carthy

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Semantics. I would class feigning injury and diving in the same category and feigning injury is possibly worse.

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Not semantics at all. A dive and feigning injury are two totally different things, albeit both are cheating. It is also important in the context of the game since if it was a dive, a free kick should not have been awarded and France would not have scored.

I think it was not a free and it should not have been awarded and I am not the only person who thinks that.

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Originally Posted by hoops1

Henry done what benefited his team its his duty to do what ever he can to win.If someone sticks a leg out in the box go down
if someone catches you after missing the ball in a tackle go down like a ton of bricks get him booked sent off even better.Its your responsibility to your team mates and manager

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You seem to be confusing duty with self-interest.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

I wish people would take off their Man Utd, Or Spurs or Liverpool or Arsenal hats when commenting on football and try to look at incidents in a fair and balanced manner.

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Amen to that. Lead by example, I say! :) :D

Anyway, I'll leave yis to it. :)

The only hat I have is the Ireland ha Fair play to France by the way hope they win the tournament now.

Peeps into forum, sit's and waits for Rooney the Cheat and Ronaldo the cheat threads to be started by outraged football observers....dum de dum.....

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Originally Posted by Clifford

Peeps into forum, sit's and waits for Rooney the Cheat and Ronaldo the cheat threads to be started by outraged football observers....dum de dum.....

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You'll have a long wait as everyone has taken off their 'hats' at Neil's request! :D :)

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Originally Posted by Clifford

Peeps into forum, sit's and waits for Rooney the Cheat and Ronaldo the cheat threads to be started by outraged football observers....dum de dum.....

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:rolleyes:

both lived up to their stereotypes, and played as expected. henry's mask was dropped and we got to see that he is a cheat like van nistlerooy, gerrard, robben etc. the difference is the hypicrosy of henry leads to this thread.

I dont understand the sensitivity regarding Henry.

I don't understand the vitriol for once holding his face when struck. That's all.

Where is the vitriol.

ding ding, seconds out, round two! :D

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Where is the vitriol.

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6 pages worth here, a separate poll thread wondering should he be banned for falling to the ground ffs - why no poll for the 50 other diving players? Good Lord.

I know you'll keep coming back as it's a last word sort of thing with you always so take it away.....

Well I dont believe personal insults should be brought into it and I dont think the poll was warranted in my view. Not sure there was any vitriol from me and I did not notice any from other people but have not read every post on Henry so maybe there has been.

Peeps in awaiting the Ballack the Cheat thread after he hit the deck holding his face last night after hammering the Italian defender......ha ha, only joshing....

Well what about C. Ronaldo than lads ?
He is a total disgrace, a big cheat...

Not sure what C Ronaldo did to be honest. Drawing the referees attention to a foul is hardly cheating in my view.

He threw himself to the ground for that penalty. No denying the contact but the momentum would not have taken him down. The man's a disgrace to himself and his talent. :mad:

:ball: PP

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Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy

He threw himself to the ground for that penalty. No denying the contact but the momentum would not have taken him down. The man's a disgrace to himself and his talent. :mad:

:ball: PP

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Bit strong PP, I know what your getting at but his 'exagerrated fall' did not alter any decision just looked a bit silly.

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Originally Posted by Junior

Bit strong PP, I know what your getting at but his 'exagerrated fall' did not alter any decision just looked a bit silly.

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I don't agree Junior; by his action Henry tried to influence the referee and that, in my book, is cheating. I detest utterly the gamesmanship that has manifested itself in football and has been all too apparent throughout this World Cup. FIFA don't really want to know, referees seem incapable of acting on it and it's completely spoiling the game as far as I am concerned. Henry's example last night was yet another example of this.

Instead of seeing the kids practising their ball skills in the local park, more often than not now I see them practising their diving and rolling-around skills. By acting in the way they do - and getting away with it - Henry and his ilk directly contribute to this.

:ball: PP

I'm not so sure. Cheating would be throwing himself to ground if he hadn't been kicked at all. There's no doubt Carvalho kicked him but there's equally no doubt, in my opinion, that the kick was not sufficient to send Henry to ground.

C. Ronaldo cheated when having missed the header he threw himself through the air to con the ref that he was pushed. Van Nistelrooy is a master at that particular one. Rooney cheated at Old Trafford when Sol Campbell withrdrew his foot from a tackle but Rooney still dived and so on.

If the Carvalho kick had been 80 yards the other end of the pitch would it (or could it) have been given as a foul? Probably.

I think what Henry did in this instance was to make sure that the kick was seen by the ref by exaggerating the outcome. Cheating or gamesmanship?

It'sa pity really because Henry had the freedom of the penalty box to collect the ball and try & beat Ricardo. The ball was running a bit wide but if he'd stayed up it was still a gilt edged chance I think.

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Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy

He threw himself to the ground for that penalty. No denying the contact but the momentum would not have taken him down.

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Agree with this totally. Whilst that in itself is not disgraceful IMO his total f.ucking hypocrasy is.

Difference is, Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Nistelrooy et al didn't go on a big rant about diving and how they wouldn't cheat only a matter of weeks ago. Henry is getting singled out for his hypocrisy, not because he's doing anything different to anyone else.

I don't see why that's so hard for the likes of Clifford, Karlos etc to comprehend - Henry made himself the target of this with his Champions League final rant.

Well Macy if you've never ever seen Henry take a dive or make a tackle look worse than it was before the CL final and swallowed the guff he spoke that night then so be it, it's all about opinions eh?

Last night's tackle was a foul, Henry left his leg there to make sure, but don't they all. It's up to the refs to do something about it, 8 dives from the Portugese last night, not one free, but not one yellow.

i have absolutly no problem with last nights penalty. it was a clumsy tackle, henry could have hurdled it, but why should he?

portugal were a bad though, postiga's and ronaldo's claims for penalties were so blatantly contrieved and deserved bookings.

however, the bbc panel were way over the top about them, basically saying it would devalue a win, if they won through diving (convienantly forgetting the divers on the english team - cole x2, gerrard, rooney, owen who they never criticise :rolleyes: )

they didn't show a replay of when zidane went down without a free kick being awarded, but would be interested to know if it was a dive.

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Originally Posted by Clifford

Last night's tackle was a foul, Henry left his leg there to make sure

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No he didn't - he didn't need to. It was his flouncing afterwards - as if the ref needed to be convinced - that's the bone of contention here.

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Originally Posted by Clifford

but don't they all.

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And that makes it right how exactly? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Clifford

It's up to the refs to do something about it

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And FIFA. But most of all it's also up to the players to recognise the profound influence they have on others, especially the young, and to stop cheating. You sound like an apologist from the Players' Union.

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Originally Posted by ColinR

i have absolutly no problem with last nights penalty. it was a clumsy tackle, henry could have hurdled it, but why should he?

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No he couldn't - he didn't have time. Too many people are missing the point that he DIVED to influence the referee to give a penalty; something I'm certain he would have done anyway without Henry's dying swan act.

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Originally Posted by ColinR

portugal were a bad though, postiga's and ronaldo's claims for penalties were so blatantly contrieved and deserved bookings.

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I totally agree; bookings at the very least should have been issued. But until FIFA issue a clear and unambiguous line on this, referees will continue to prevaricate and players will continue to cheat. :(

:ball: PP

Joe Cole dives and also does the theatrical rolling around bit. Michael Owen dives too. Argentina was an obvious one but does anyone remember a waxy 3-2 home win over Slovakia about 3 years ago when he simply threw himself to the ground for a penno? My scouser mates sarcastically call him St. Michael.

After the Hungary friendly Ian Wright Wright Wright said he had no problem with English players diving.

Jamie Redknapp wrote in the Daily Mail last week ( I bought all the papers last Sunday & Monday!!) that England should start diving more.

Fine, let them believe they have the best squad & that the reason they're out is diving. They contradict themselves anyway as they concede they were better when Rooney went off.

Point taken about the hypocrisy of Henry's anti-diving stance, but I wouldn't judge Henry's character on his post-CL final rant. The guy was heartbroken & in the heat of the moment lost the run of himself. We've all said dumb things in the heat of the moment, it's just that none of us has a televised audience of millions.

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Originally Posted by ColinR

i have absolutly no problem with last nights penalty. it was a clumsy tackle, henry could have hurdled it, but why should he?

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Cos there's a witch hunt..:D He's not allowed.

Ronaldo was a disgrace last night in my view. A total joke of a performance.

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Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy

And that makes it right how exactly? :rolleyes:

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I never said it was right, just stating the fact's, they all do it cos they get away with it.

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And FIFA. But most of all it's also up to the players to recognise the profound influence they have on others, especially the young, and to stop cheating. You sound like an apologist from the Players' Union.

But until FIFA issue a clear and unambiguous line on this, referees will continue to prevaricate and players will continue to cheat.

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So which is it? I understand what your saying totally to be honest.

What I don't get is this idea that all the youth of today will go around throwing themselves down like the cry baby cos they saw it on tv. Do you think all these "Top Class" stars made it to where they are now by rolling around above in Pophams field on a wet Sunday morning in Jan? They get to a certain point and then it seems to become acceptable. Even Rooney was against a dive at Everton, but that soon worked it's way into his game at Man USA.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Ronaldo was a disgrace last night in my view. A total joke of a performance.

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Agreed totally, how did he not get booked for simulation many times?

Edit: That one in the first half, the flying header actually had a bit of a double movement, incredible.