Bosnia-Herzegovina V Ireland - Friday, 13th November 2015 Euro 2016 Play Off 1st Leg

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Originally Posted by RedBench

We could have won it. But, yeah yeah. This draw is good.

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Agreed. As frustrating as it was to concede so needlessly, so late and so quickly after we scored we really have little to complain about. It's not just that we would have taken 1-1 beforehand, but it's an even better situation in the context of the game. Our performance was completely undeserving of an away goal and the final scoreline is considerably better than it was seven minutes from time. My biggest fear after they equalised was that they had time to score again, and they very nearly did when the big man headed just wide. Now that would have been a sucker punch. I thought we could have done more to prevent that cross actually, particularly Coleman, who seemed happy enough to allow the winger to put it in there and leave our centre backs deal with it, a very risky tactic with a 6ft6 striker lurking about.

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

The guy saying the refs were on Irelands side is funny.

http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/...00007/page-335

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I though the ref was good, very light touch, another ref could have dished out a few more cards, no player is banned for the return leg, he gave us the benefit of any doubt in incidents in our area and for the most part he saw incidents as they were, when they could have been seen as something else.

I don't know why people tune into watch Ireland if they are expecting to be entertained. IMO it never should be about that, regardless of the importance of the game I am usually on the edge of my seat for the entire game, a bag of nerves. The vast majority of teams at club level and international level aren't entertaining. What we strive to be as a small nation is effective and successful. When we are, you really hear the general public complain.

Last night was effective defensively. We did not give much going forward but from two real chances, we scored and very nearly secured a big away victory. Despite his goal, Brady didn't have a great game, his set pieces disappointed again. Houlihan was largely anonymous. Whelan was poor in possession in the first half but once again both he and McCarthy offered similar - strong defensively but little composure on the ball.

I think Randolph is a great find. Composed, assured and strong. Plus he has some boot on him. Very fine performances from Clark, Keogh and Coleman.

Overall I think we nullified the Bosnian thread. Their style of play is slow and to a degree direct, that suits us. While I suspect they will be better on Monday, so should we. Walters will be a big addition and hopefully long can give us 20 mins. We need to run at their CBs. If long doesn't make it, I would again like to see Mcgeady come in in a forward role to run at them particularly if they are chasing the game late on. Cautiously optimistic, we will need to score at least once in Monday.

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Originally Posted by geysir

I though the ref was good, very light touch, another ref could have dished out a few more cards, no player is banned for the return leg, he gave us the benefit of any doubt in incidents in our area and for the most part he saw incidents as they were, when they could have been seen as something else.

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Yeah completely agree. I got a good feeling the second I saw him, I knew straight away that I'd seen him before a few times and I had been impressed somewhere along the line. As it turned out George Hamilton mentioned in commentary that he did our game in Moscow when Dunney held out for a nil nil. I'm sure I've seen him other times too though, probably Champions League games. He did give them one free near the end, against McClean for 'high leg' that I would have disagreed with but he was excellent overall I felt. A more fussy ref could have easily booked McCarthy, Wilson and definitely Dzeko but I think he used his common sense, there was nothing really worthy of a guy being suspended.

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Originally Posted by elroy

I don't know why people tune into watch Ireland if they are expecting to be entertained.

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Oh yeah definitely, I think it's just frustrating when we can't seem to string any few passes together, even our players who seem well able to do it with their clubs. It's a bit of a collective failure when they put on the Irish jerseys for some reason, far more often than it ought to be. We were incapable of going from back to front last night because we couldn't put enough consecutive passes together, far worse teams than us are capable of doing that at least.

Maybe a post for a different/new thread, but while the result was good last night, it was overshadowed by events in Paris - notably at the Stade.

If we qualify on Monday, I know I'd think twice about going to the finals at this stage. A very juicy target unfortunately...

You're already on the no fly list anyway aren't you?

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Maybe a post for a different/new thread, but while the result was good last night, it was overshadowed by events in Paris - notably at the Stade.

If we qualify on Monday, I know I'd think twice about going to the finals at this stage. A very juicy target unfortunately...

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Yeah, security will be insane but there's only so much you can do with freak shows that are willing to blow themselves up.

Yup - best thing you can do is not go near them...

Security will be tight alright. I don't expect anything to happen in the grounds. But en route? In the pub area after? Imagine an attack at the first match of the day; do you postpone the next two? That's what these scum would love

Anyways, let's just look to Monday alright. Bosnia really didn't impress me in defence; nervy and poor in possession. Get a bit of atmosphere going, build up a head of steam, get an early goal and we're well on the way. Probably marginal favourites at this stage, even if they were good at the other end.

Any news on Dzeko?

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Originally Posted by elroy

I don't know why people tune into watch Ireland if they are expecting to be entertained. IMO it never should be about that, regardless of the importance of the game I am usually on the edge of my seat for the entire game, a bag of nerves. The vast majority of teams at club level and international level aren't entertaining. What we strive to be as a small nation is effective and successful. When we are, you really hear the general public complain.

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It's fair comment to call that a crápish game of football and any neutral still watching probably would have been glad of the fog so they could do something else.
As a supporter I doubt if ever I have thought of being entertained over and above the value of a result and with Ireland you can't afford to sit on a high horse.
Nevertheless this is not as straightforward as you present it, eg when playing cráp hoof football is hurting our chances of getting a result, when good players are left of the squad because they don't fit into a straightjacket or when other teams easily suss out what we have to offer in our limited fashion and beat us.
So not only were we playing cráp football but we were getting beaten.

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Originally Posted by elroy

we will need to score at least once in Monday.

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I totally agree with your post Elroy but if we will need to score at least once, doesn't that really mean that we'll definitely have to score twice?

I don't think the Bosniaks will be much better on Monday. I got my Yugoslavian girlfriend to get on a few websites and I think as they considered us as such little threat, the fact they had to salvage a draw has sapped their spirit. I hope it's true and Walters and Long run amok and have it wrapped it up by half time.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

I totally agree with your post Elroy but if we will need to score at least once, doesn't that really mean that we'll definitely have to score twice?

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Ha ha I see what you mean, twice to win then yes but once for pens.

From reading a few Bosnian comments, they seem very unhappy with their performance and manager, particularly his 442 formation and substitutions. Most consider 4-5-1 is their best set up. Also didn't think much of us. It's funny reading their overall comments, could easily be read on this forum, some seem to consider they have rode their luck at times in the campaign.

Finally just in addition to my earlier comments regarding watching Ireland and expecting to be entertained. For a long time I have heard the argument that these players have shown they can play ball for their clubs. However, every competitive game at international level is of utmost importance, arguably there is more to lose than in your average club game. Does this increased pressure affect our players approach, at least sub consciously?!?

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Originally Posted by joe_denilson

Anyway. About 2 minutes in, you could see what was happening. The Bosnians had qualified for little or no championships. And the danger of being the person who messed it up for everyone, had gotten to... everyone. These lads are ****less. The worst thing we can do is give them a stab in the dark. I doubt MON or RK are thinking this, but we are 1-1 going into a home leg.
Don't poke the bear.


Lets be clear here. I'm talking about a Kasparovian move to take the Bosnian King.

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I think we may have over rated the Bosnia's, however that is not as deadly as under rating them.

Bosnia need to get a goal, however the worrying things is it only took them 3 minutes to get one last time they
need one.

Then the fear of failure set in again.

Looks like JOSH will be fit. How about Long?

Nothing on the internet about Dzeko and a pulled whatever though it is mentioned on their message boards a bit

Ref was great, didn't get suckered into penalising silly stuff and had great authority. Looks too young to have such experience. He reffed the home tie v France in 2009 according to Sky.

I don't think you can dissociate entertainment and performance. I think the reason Ireland rack your nerves like nothing else is because we simply aren't comfortable on the ball and for years now we play most of every game without it. If we were better we'd be more entertaining.

Posted on the Bosnia site

https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...22&oe=56BA365E

Looks good we have not been beaten at home in 8 games, on the other hand however all such runs come to an
end, let's just hope it doesn't end on Monday!!

Worth noting that Bosnia's neighbour Serbia was one of the last teams to beat us at home, however that is all history, it is Monday that matters.

If O'Shea is fit I probably wouldn't change Clark or Keogh. O'Shea could always go to LB if they think they need his leadership.

I'd say the only other change would be Walters for Murphy, then hopefully unleash Long with 30 to go.

Concentration levels need to be switched on from the off, we cannot concede early. Keep the pressure on them for as long as possible.

Coleman, Keogh, Clark and Wilson are as comfortable on the ball as most defenders bar maybe your Spanish and Italian types who excel in that area. McCarthy looks comfortable on the ball at Everton even if he could be more assertive at times. McGeady, Brady and Hoolahan are as comfortable on the ball as you get, that should be more than enough in itself to be able to retain possession, work angles for each other and generally be able to play a bit of ball, especially against our equals or lessers. It seems every time one of our midfielders receive possession he's in trouble, he's only uncomfortable because he has no options and is quickly boxed in, even Pirlo or Iniesta would be slightly uncomfortable in that scenario, they wouldn't kick it out of play like Glenn Whelan but they might be forced to put a speculative ball down the wing or play it backwards/sideways. I know it's an overused example and France were terrible, but that night in Paris showed it can be done, and we had arguably less ball players that time than we do now with the exception of Duff. Less competitive teams with inferior footballers do it, where there's a will there's a way. It's simply not encouraged or practiced I think.

Game made me homesick for the days when you would sit in a pub during the middle of winter trying to watch a horse race and not see anything due to the thickest fogs ever known, and then try and work out who had won.
I find with Ireland now I go from elation to depression and back again really quickly due to our style and results. Fickle I am! O'Neill has always been more about results than style and to be fair to him, qualification would justify his game plan. I feel many have been very harsh on McClean, he is headstrong, but when he comes on, for me he is always hungry and totally committed, like a man trying to get a starting spot. Not a bad thing IMO. Brady's goal was a beauty, great to see O'Neill change the wingers around.
I worried about Keogh and Clark together in defence as both can be a little impulsive, but they were solid. I would keep Brady in midfield on Monday and play Wilson at left back as they attacked mostly down the right and looked a big, physical team. Anyhow, the butterflies have already started, hopefully Dzeko is out as this might help the belly prior to the game!

Easy to criticise McClean for the goal but I think it was Wilson who was out of position. Either way, it was a good goal from their point of view.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Easy to criticise McClean for the goal but I think it was Wilson who was out of position. Either way, it was a good goal from their point of view.

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Do you think their goal as well demonstrated why MON went to such lengths in risking Ward at LB ? Because where McClean was standing made him redundant in tracking the run and also, cutting out the passing angle, maybe a specialist LB albeit a lesser player would have positioned himself instinctively better.

The Foggy Dew!

https://www.newstalk.com/content/000...23_328x250.jpg

I think a specialist LB would have covered the gap Wilson left when he was playing the role of a CB caught wide. It was McClean who got turned but Wilson who was caught in no man's land.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

The Foggy Dew!

https://www.newstalk.com/content/000...23_328x250.jpg

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It was like any mid-winter game at Dalyer in the 80s before bituminous coal was banned.

So what do you fine chaps think the lineup will be? Not what you want, what you think.

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

So what do you fine chaps think the lineup will be? Not what you want, what you think.

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-----------------Randolph-----------------


Coleman-----O'Shea--------Clark-------Wilson


Hendrick-----Whelan------McCarthy------Brady

-------------Hoolahan----------

-------------Walters------------------

Nee

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Originally Posted by harry crumb

-----------------Randolph-----------------


Coleman-----O'Shea--------Clark-------Wilson


Hendrick-----Whelan------McCarthy------Brady

-------------Hoolahan----------

-------------Walters------------------

Nee

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Yep would be very happy with that line up! Confident that this team can get a result at home against the Bosnians.

I can never understand why Hendrick plays on the wing though. He is not a winger. I'd stick McClean there instead.

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Originally Posted by TrapAPony

I can never understand why Hendrick plays on the wing though. He is not a winger. I'd stick McClean there instead.

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McClean never impresses when he starts. It's odd. It's like he needs to watch 55 minutes to wind him up.

If Long is fit (big if?) I think It'll be back to the 4-1-2-1-2 (Diamond)

----------------- Randolph -----------------
-- Coleman -- Keogh -- Clark -- Brady --
-------------------- Whelan ----------------
--------- McCarthy --- Hendrick ----------
----------------- Hoolahan -----------------
--------------- Walters Long ---------------

Also. As an international manager, Martin O'Neill is starting to feel like a round peg. We've been through the initial bounce, then the inevitable bit of slippage, but I feel like he is really in the groove now.

I'd keep the defence the way it is bar slotting brady back in at left back, but i wouldn't be opposed to jos at left back either. Keogh and Clark played well and deserve to keep their places. in such a case, it may allow Brady's technical ability to come to the fore more.

I like backtowallsall's team - we all know Whelan's faults but he does bring certain qualities to the team. Moving forward, i'd like to see other options come in, but his ability to stifle superior players could be essential in this game. I feel Wes is going to have a stormer if he is given the opportunities unlike the way Friday panned out.

The big thing is that we are proactive and take the game to them. I do think they have a goal in them so while we have to be sensible, sitting back for the 0-0 will do us no favours. It would play into Pjanic's hands and Dzeko is always capable of a goal as we saw on Friday.

I'm looking forward to seeing Walters up against that defence. Long may be a good impact sub if he isn't 100 percent to start.

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Originally Posted by Bungle

I'd keep the defence the way it is bar slotting brady back in at left back, but i wouldn't be opposed to jos at left back either. Keogh and Clark played well and deserve to keep their places. in such a case, it may allow Brady's technical ability to come to the fore more.
.

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I'd hate to see JOS at LB. he was never a good left or right back. Now on top of that he's too old. He'd get destroyed. I'd actually rather Clark and Keogh be out centre back than O'Shea.

I'd probably pick Keogh and O'Shea at CB and shift Clark to LB. There is a lack of conviction in that selection though. I'm in several minds. We really need someone like Greg Cunningham to step into that position and make himself undroppable. It's been a problem for us since Harte.

Speaking of which, were Harte and Kelly on Sunday Supplement today? I think they said last week they'd be the special guests.

It's not just a matter of who plays at LB but also employ a definite tactic to support the LB when there is a threat, not leave him isolated, otherwise the (dodgy or not) LB becomes a glaring target for any opposition.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I'd probably pick Keogh and O'Shea at CB and shift Clark to LB. There is a lack of conviction in that selection though.

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I would go with this but with plenty of conviction, not because I'd trust it fully but because I think it would definitely be the best option we have, in light of the performances on Friday. Bosnia were at their most dangerous down the right so I really wouldn't see the sense in dropping Brady back there, especially after what he produced at the other end the other night. Clark is a solid, relatively mobile unit, they shouldn't get past him too easily. O'Shea and Keogh combined well for our best defensively display and result in years against Germany so it all pieces together well I think, as long as O'Shea is fully good to go.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Speaking of which, were Harte and Kelly on Sunday Supplement today? I think they said last week they'd be the special guests.

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I heard McAteer and Kelly were on Goals on Sunday, that's the same thing, right? They were supposed to have been very funny but didn't see it myself.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

I would go with this but with plenty of conviction, not because I'd trust it fully but because I think it would definitely be the best option we have, in light of the performances on Friday. Bosnia were at their most dangerous down the right so I really wouldn't see the sense in dropping Brady back there, especially after what he produced at the other end the other night. Clark is a solid, relatively mobile unit, they shouldn't get past him too easily. O'Shea and Keogh combined well for our best defensively display and result in years against Germany so it all pieces together well I think, as long as O'Shea is fully good to go.
.

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Anyone who thinks Clark is a solid and relatively mobile unit, really doesn't know their footie.

Like Keogh, Clark is an accident waiting to happen.
Both will cost us games and that's my fear against Bosnia.

My heart says we will win but my head says a Bosnia win courtesy of a Clark or Keogh howler.

Blog on the trip for anyone interested. Great trip, really enjoyed it!

Forgive any typos, too wrecked to proof read now, will do it later!

http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/201...rajevo_15.html

Listening to Dan McDonnell on newstalk, really respect this lad's views in comparison to someone like fanning or Dunphy.

Bloody nervous listening to it. Good points that the biggest thing learned from Friday is that Bosnia finished third for a reason, they certainly aren't anything to be feared, a fresh Walters should offer a more effective threat and that the prospect of long being fit to come on in last 20 mins is worrying Bosnia. Need to make the Aviva a difficult place to play rather than the friendly venue it has been far too often.

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Originally Posted by the doc

Anyone who thinks Clark is a solid and relatively mobile unit, really doesn't know their footie.

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Solid unit as in strong and sturdy, not infallible. I mean he's unlikely to be taken to the cleaners the way Ward was and he'd be more defensively minded than Brady. Are you saying he's slow? Not something I've noticed but I'm willing to bow to your superior footie knowledge :)

What back four would you go with yourself Doctor?

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Originally Posted by the doc

Anyone who thinks Clark is a solid and relatively mobile unit, really doesn't know their footie.

Like Keogh, Clark is an accident waiting to happen.
Both will cost us games and that's my fear against Bosnia.

My heart says we will win but my head says a Bosnia win courtesy of a Clark or Keogh howler.

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I know my footie...
http://img.rasset.ie/000b5c4e-642.jpg

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

Solid unit as in strong and sturdy, not infallible. I mean he's unlikely to be taken to the cleaners the way Ward was and he'd be more defensively minded than Brady. Are you saying he's slow? Not something I've noticed but I'm willing to bow to your superior footie knowledge :)

What back four would you go with yourself Doctor?

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Historically some of our best fullback combinations have involved players not playing on their favoured / natural side. Irwin and Hughton both played LB and RB at different times when needed. I am not saying Christie is ar that level, but he is a full back who knows how to defend and has done well when picked.